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Re: Wormwood and other herbs

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  • Marilyn Traber
    Actually I have had real absinth and ouzo [both made with wormwood] and made my own tincture of wormwood to make absinth. It is not that in the right amounts
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 1, 1999
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      Actually I have had real absinth and ouzo [both made with wormwood] and made
      my own tincture of wormwood to make absinth. It is not that in the right
      amounts it is toxic, per se, it is that it is a minor narcotic that has the
      unfortunate side effect of storing in the liver and building to a toxic
      level. Tinc of wormwood is a valid migraine treatment. Most of the time now
      the wormwood is replaced for the american market with true liccorice, which
      has a distinctive flavor whereas the flavor of wormwood is more similar to
      chewing on aspirine with a shot of good scotch for teh smokey/musty/sharp
      flavor.

      [curerntly having wormwood growing 'wild' in her woods...]
      margali


      > I agree with Margali that vermouth is a sensible substitute for
      > wine flavored with wormwood. I'd strongly advise you folks to
      > avoid putting wormwood in any food as a seasoning. It's
      > really toxic!! Go easy with the rue (many folks are allergic
      > to it) and the pennyroyal (don't feed to pregnant women) as
      > well.
      >

      rue, pennyroyal and oregano are abortificants, it just depends on how much
      is used and of course how sensitizsed the woman is to them. anything can
      trigger an AB if there is the right type of allergy. The anount of rue or
      pennyroyal in a recipe TYPICALLY BARRING SENSITIVITIES not trigger AB, as
      the amount given for a doseage is in the disgusting to the taste of normal
      humans range. for an average recipe for 8 people, the typical amount of herb
      present is usually in the teaspoon range, and it takes approx 1/2 cup
      dried/2 cup fresh in tincture to act as an AB agent. We also won't get into
      delivery of the tincture either.

      > Kiwi Carlisle
      > carlislc@...
    • Vesta
      ... Although I ve also heard that the three herbs mentioned above can also induce mensturation in *smaller* doses. Is this true? I left rue out of a recipe
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 1, 1999
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        Marilyn Traber wrote:
        > rue, pennyroyal and oregano are abortificants, it just depends on how much
        > is used and of course how sensitizsed the woman is to them. anything can
        > trigger an AB if there is the right type of allergy. The anount of rue or
        > pennyroyal in a recipe TYPICALLY BARRING SENSITIVITIES not trigger AB, as

        Although I've also heard that the three herbs mentioned above can also
        induce mensturation in *smaller* doses. Is this true? I left rue out of
        a recipe because I'd heard that -- and I had a hemophiliac to feed....

        Vesta

        --
        Domina Vesta Antonia Aurelia
        An Tir -- Summits -- Cavernsgate
        Speaking only for myself and my evil twin Skippy.
      • Gaylin Walli
        ... With regards to plant information, I d recommend doing serious research on any plant before trusting what anyone has heard or said about the plant.
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 1, 1999
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          Vesta asked:

          >Although I've also heard that the three herbs mentioned above can also
          >induce mensturation in *smaller* doses. Is this true? I left rue out of
          >a recipe because I'd heard that -- and I had a hemophiliac to feed....

          With regards to plant information, I'd recommend doing serious
          research on any plant before trusting what anyone has heard or
          said about the plant. However, if you have any doubt, ANY AT ALL,
          leave the plant out. There are always ways to get around a
          flavour substitution.

          The Medline Database says nothing about hemophiliacs avoiding the Rue
          herb. However, its major use as an herb to control menstrual periods
          and information in the King's Dispensatory indicates that it should
          be completely avoided during pregnancy because it is considered a
          "uterine vasodialator" (it makes the uterus spasm) and because it may
          be present in milk during nursing. Here is a link online that has a
          summary of the information:

          http://www.healthy.net/library/books/hoffman/materiamedica/rue.htm

          Michael Moore's contraindications page, while not complete, is a
          good start for looking into plant eating problems and can be found
          online at:

          http://www.herb.com/contra.htm

          And, of course, any recent book that's backed up by recent medical
          research. Personally, I'd recommend anything from Germany's Commission
          E, but there are other US choices that you can use as a starting point.
          However, regardless of the books you choose, I HIGHLY recommend going
          and getting the original studies if you can.

          Jasmine, jasmine@...
        • Bob Pastorio
          There s a brand new Physician s Desk Reference book about herbal use. Complete with the newest info. Check Amazon or your neighborhood bookstore... Pastorio
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 1, 1999
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            There's a brand new "Physician's Desk Reference" book about herbal use.
            Complete with the newest info. Check Amazon or your neighborhood
            bookstore...

            Pastorio
            -------------------------------------

            Gaylin Walli wrote:

            > From: "Gaylin Walli" <gwalli@...>
            >
            > Vesta asked:
            >
            > >Although I've also heard that the three herbs mentioned above can also
            > >induce mensturation in *smaller* doses. Is this true? I left rue out of
            > >a recipe because I'd heard that -- and I had a hemophiliac to feed....
            >
            > With regards to plant information, I'd recommend doing serious
            > research on any plant before trusting what anyone has heard or
            > said about the plant. However, if you have any doubt, ANY AT ALL,
            > leave the plant out. There are always ways to get around a
            > flavour substitution.
            >
            > The Medline Database says nothing about hemophiliacs avoiding the Rue
            > herb. However, its major use as an herb to control menstrual periods
            > and information in the King's Dispensatory indicates that it should
            > be completely avoided during pregnancy because it is considered a
            > "uterine vasodialator" (it makes the uterus spasm) and because it may
            > be present in milk during nursing. Here is a link online that has a
            > summary of the information:
            >
            > http://www.healthy.net/library/books/hoffman/materiamedica/rue.htm
            >
            > Michael Moore's contraindications page, while not complete, is a
            > good start for looking into plant eating problems and can be found
            > online at:
            >
            > http://www.herb.com/contra.htm
            >
            > And, of course, any recent book that's backed up by recent medical
            > research. Personally, I'd recommend anything from Germany's Commission
            > E, but there are other US choices that you can use as a starting point.
            > However, regardless of the books you choose, I HIGHLY recommend going
            > and getting the original studies if you can.
            >
            > Jasmine, jasmine@...
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
            > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
            > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > The best antique Roman recipes are at: http://www.home.ch/~spaw1087/orgy
          • DONALD FISK
            ... According to the Absinthe FAQ (on the WWW somewhere, I forget the URL), the cause of absinthism was the high levels of alcohol in the drink rather than the
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 1, 1999
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              Kiwi Carlisle writes:

              > I agree with Margali that vermouth is a sensible substitute for
              > wine flavored with wormwood. I'd strongly advise you folks to
              > avoid putting wormwood in any food as a seasoning. It's
              > really toxic!! Go easy with the rue (many folks are allergic
              > to it) and the pennyroyal (don't feed to pregnant women) as
              > well.

              According to the Absinthe FAQ (on the WWW somewhere, I forget
              the URL), the cause of absinthism was the high levels of alcohol in
              the drink rather than the thujone in the wormwood. In any event,
              Absinthium Romanum had considerably less wormwood than the
              absinthe distilled by Pernod & Fils.

              I've made and drunk my own Absinthium Romanum, as well as
              using pennyroyal and rue in recipes with no ill effects. However
              there is one word of caution: I gave my son (then 2.5 years old)
              some rue to smell, and his upper lip blistered. The blisters remained
              for three weeks before completely healing. You should avoid contact
              with the skin in bright sunshine. More general advice is to avoid
              unusual herbs when pregnant.

              Le Hibou
            • Marilyn Traber
              It is used in folk medicine for that, so that was a good choice. You could substitute tarragon and a bare hint of asfoetida in that case. margali
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 2, 1999
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                It is used in folk medicine for that, so that was a good choice. You could
                substitute tarragon and a bare hint of asfoetida in that case.
                margali


                > Although I've also heard that the three herbs mentioned above can also
                > induce mensturation in *smaller* doses. Is this true? I left rue out of
                > a recipe because I'd heard that -- and I had a hemophiliac to feed....
                > Vesta
              • RIDGLEYJ@xxx.xxx
                In a message dated 2/1/99 10:14:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, CarlislC@psychiatry.wustl.edu writes:
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 2, 1999
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                  In a message dated 2/1/99 10:14:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                  CarlislC@... writes:

                  << I'd strongly advise you folks to
                  avoid putting wormwood in any food as a seasoning. >>
                  Agreed!!!
                  Wormwood is so called because used as a tea, it would devoid the body of
                  parasites/worms. thus worm wood. It 'doesn't have worms in its wood.
                  Therefore it is medicinal. Be careful.
                  Judy
                • RIDGLEYJ@xxx.xxx
                  In a message dated 2/1/99 11:34:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, petworth@suba.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 2, 1999
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                    In a message dated 2/1/99 11:34:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, petworth@...
                    writes:

                    << nyone tinkering with curious herbs would be well advised to keep a copy of
                    Mrs. Grieve (the great 19c pharmaceutical encyclopaedist) at hand. Se's on
                    the Net somewhere, also in Dovers. If anyone is interested, I have the refs
                    since I have the book (2-vol.)
                    >>
                    Bill's absolutely right...you have to be careful with these things/herbs.
                    Allergy's aren't the only problems here. Some are safe if you just use the
                    leavesl some leaves are deadly. While the bulb may be fine another's bulb is
                    poisonous. Flowers are fine but some aren't. And guess what...these can
                    come from the same two plants. You can't cross em. Unless you really know
                    what you're doing, stick with the tried and true...ie basil, garlic, thyme,
                    etc
                    Judy
                  • Brian A French
                    Prior to the discovery of hops wormwood was used in making beer. I find Rue somewhat toxic in that it destroys others plants in my herb garden. Perhaps this is
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 4, 1999
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                      Prior to the discovery of hops wormwood was used in making beer. I find Rue
                      somewhat toxic in that it destroys others plants in my herb garden. Perhaps
                      this is partly due to the hot dry climate in Australia but provided it is
                      kept separately all thrive reasonably well.

                      In the 1980s I spent many happy hours collecting herbs in the mountains
                      behind Assisi. More recently as part of my course on Roman Life I photocopy
                      recipes from Apicius which my students (adult) recreate and bring along for
                      a Roman banquet. The subltle blend of flavours has astounded and intrigued
                      them.

                      Pax et bonum,

                      Brian
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: DONALD FISK <hibou@...>
                      To: Apicius@onelist.com <Apicius@onelist.com>
                      Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 2:26 PM
                      Subject: [Apicius] Re: Wormwood and other herbs


                      >From: DONALD FISK <hibou@...>
                      >
                      >Kiwi Carlisle writes:
                      >
                      >> I agree with Margali that vermouth is a sensible substitute for
                      >> wine flavored with wormwood. I'd strongly advise you folks to
                      >> avoid putting wormwood in any food as a seasoning. It's
                      >> really toxic!! Go easy with the rue (many folks are allergic
                      >> to it) and the pennyroyal (don't feed to pregnant women) as
                      >> well.
                      >
                      >According to the Absinthe FAQ (on the WWW somewhere, I forget
                      >the URL), the cause of absinthism was the high levels of alcohol in
                      >the drink rather than the thujone in the wormwood. In any event,
                      >Absinthium Romanum had considerably less wormwood than the
                      >absinthe distilled by Pernod & Fils.
                      >
                      >I've made and drunk my own Absinthium Romanum, as well as
                      >using pennyroyal and rue in recipes with no ill effects. However
                      >there is one word of caution: I gave my son (then 2.5 years old)
                      >some rue to smell, and his upper lip blistered. The blisters remained
                      >for three weeks before completely healing. You should avoid contact
                      >with the skin in bright sunshine. More general advice is to avoid
                      >unusual herbs when pregnant.
                      >
                      >Le Hibou
                      >
                      >
                      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
                      >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
                      >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
                      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >The best antique Roman recipes are at: http://www.home.ch/~spaw1087/orgy
                      >
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