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[Fwd: Williams-Sonoma Rome book]

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  • david meadows
    This might be of interest to some on this list (Maureen B. Fant is a classicist living in Rome) ... the original of this had a photo of the cover which I don t
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 8, 2005
      This might be of interest to some on this list (Maureen B. Fant is a
      classicist living in Rome) ... the original of this had a photo of the
      cover which I don't think will make it through ...

      dm

      -------- Original Message --------
      Subject: Williams-Sonoma Rome book
      Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 06:24:38 +0200
      From: Maureen B. Fant <info@...>



      Please forward this message to anyone you know who is interested in
      gastronomic Rome. And please forgive the intrusion, inadvertent
      duplication, and any other annoyances.

      Many thanks.
      Maureen

      Text by Maureen B. Fant, photographs by Jean-Blaise Hall. Oxmoor House
      2005. ISBN 0848730062. The Rome volume in the Williams-Sonoma Foods of
      the World series. About half is devoted to 50 recipes, from antipasto to
      dolce, and half to text on food history, local practices, and spotlights
      on specific foods. It really is mostly my Rome—what's traditional,
      what's trendy, and what we have that you don't.

      Click here
      <ttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0848730062/maurebfant-20?creative27641&camp573&link_code=as1">

      to order from Amazon.com ($16.47 instead of $24.95).
      Click here
      <ttp://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0848730062/qid%253D1126107897/026-1591428-2622861">to

      order from Amazon.co.uk (£12.24 instead of £13.61).
    • P. Dominus Antonius
      It mentions pasta. Wasn t pasta introduced from China by Marco Polo? Are you sure that this isn t modern Roman cooking? -- ... Tony Dah m Oderint dum metuant -
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 4, 2005
        It mentions pasta.
        Wasn't pasta introduced from China by Marco Polo?
        Are you sure that this isn't modern Roman cooking?

        --
        >|P. Dominus Antonius|<
        Tony Dah m

        Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
        Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius


        On 9/8/05, david meadows <dmeadows@...> wrote:
        >
        > This might be of interest to some on this list (Maureen B. Fant is a
        > classicist living in Rome) ... the original of this had a photo of the
        > cover which I don't think will make it through ...
        >
        > dm
        >
        > -------- Original Message --------
        > Subject: Williams-Sonoma Rome book
        > Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 06:24:38 +0200
        > From: Maureen B. Fant <info@...>
        >
        >
        >
        > Please forward this message to anyone you know who is interested in
        > gastronomic Rome. And please forgive the intrusion, inadvertent
        > duplication, and any other annoyances.
        >
        > Many thanks.
        > Maureen
        >
        > Text by Maureen B. Fant, photographs by Jean-Blaise Hall. Oxmoor House
        > 2005. ISBN 0848730062. The Rome volume in the Williams-Sonoma Foods of
        > the World series. About half is devoted to 50 recipes, from antipasto to
        > dolce, and half to text on food history, local practices, and spotlights
        > on specific foods. It really is mostly my Rome�what's traditional,
        > what's trendy, and what we have that you don't.
        >
        > Click here
        > <
        > ttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0848730062/maurebfant-20?creative27641&camp573&link_code=as1"
        > >
        >
        > to order from Amazon.com <http://Amazon.com> ($16.47 instead of $24.95).
        > Click here
        > <
        > ttp://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0848730062/qid%253D1126107897/026-1591428-2622861"
        > >to
        >
        > order from Amazon.co.uk <http://Amazon.co.uk> (�12.24 instead of �13.61).
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Marco Berni
        I have not seen the book in question so I cannot comment. However on the matter of pasta and its origins, whilst there is nothing to support the deduction by
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 5, 2005
          I have not seen the book in question so I cannot comment.

          However on the matter of pasta and its origins, whilst there is
          nothing to support the deduction by some that the Romans may have had
          some form of dried 'pasta' beyond the mention of 'laganum', the old
          story about Marco Polo bringing pasta back from China is a proven
          falsehood.

          In Polo's diary of the voyage, 'il Milione' he speaks of seeing
          "lasagne similar to those that we prepare with wheat flour" .

          What is possible is that the egg-pasta 'noodle' form may have been
          influenced by China, but the way the Chinese and the Italians make
          noodles is completely different and it is known that this form of
          fresh pasta (as opposed to dried, water based varieties) came through
          Asia and North Africa.

          Finally, I was once told by a Chinese friend that when he was growing
          up in the Canton region he was taught that Polo brought pasta to China!

          Urban legends....

          Marco


          On Oct 5, 2005, at 05:24, P. Dominus Antonius wrote:

          > It mentions pasta.
          > Wasn't pasta introduced from China by Marco Polo?
          > Are you sure that this isn't modern Roman cooking?
          >
          > --
          >
          >> |P. Dominus Antonius|<
          >>
          > Tony Dah m
          >
          > Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
          > Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
          >
          >
          > On 9/8/05, david meadows <dmeadows@...> wrote:
          >
          >>
          >> This might be of interest to some on this list (Maureen B. Fant is a
          >> classicist living in Rome) ... the original of this had a photo of
          >> the
          >> cover which I don't think will make it through ...
          >>
          >> dm
          >>
          >> -------- Original Message --------
          >> Subject: Williams-Sonoma Rome book
          >> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 06:24:38 +0200
          >> From: Maureen B. Fant <info@...>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Please forward this message to anyone you know who is interested in
          >> gastronomic Rome. And please forgive the intrusion, inadvertent
          >> duplication, and any other annoyances.
          >>
          >> Many thanks.
          >> Maureen
          >>
          >> Text by Maureen B. Fant, photographs by Jean-Blaise Hall. Oxmoor
          >> House
          >> 2005. ISBN 0848730062. The Rome volume in the Williams-Sonoma
          >> Foods of
          >> the World series. About half is devoted to 50 recipes, from
          >> antipasto to
          >> dolce, and half to text on food history, local practices, and
          >> spotlights
          >> on specific foods. It really is mostly my Rome�what's traditional,
          >> what's trendy, and what we have that you don't.
          >>
          >> Click here
          >> <
          >> ttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0848730062/maurebfant-20?
          >> creative27641&camp573&link_code=as1"
          >>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >> to order from Amazon.com <http://Amazon.com> ($16.47 instead of
          >> $24.95).
          >> Click here
          >> <
          >> ttp://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0848730062/qid%
          >> 253D1126107897/026-1591428-2622861"
          >>
          >>> to
          >>>
          >>
          >> order from Amazon.co.uk <http://Amazon.co.uk> (�12.24 instead of
          >> �13.61).
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Keith Boyle
          ... nope. the Romans were eating flat pieces of dried unleavened dough that were fried or baked as early as the good old Republican days... according to most
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 5, 2005
            "P. Dominus Antonius" <marsvigilia@g...> wrote:
            > It mentions pasta.
            > Wasn't pasta introduced from China by Marco Polo?
            > Are you sure that this isn't modern Roman cooking?

            nope. the Romans were eating flat pieces of dried unleavened dough
            that were fried or baked as early as the good old Republican days...
            according to most of the non-Apician sources and modern research. it
            just was considered a bit plebian and not very "elegant" for mopst
            tastes.

            it's *boiling* pasta that's fairly new.

            try deep-frying or pan-frying some pasta sometime. it only takes a few
            seconds at 375F, yet is quite illuminating as to why some of the
            sauces from Apicius call for so much pepper and so much green herbs...
            it really cuts through the residual fattiness.

            love, keith
          • lilinah@earthlink.net
            P. Dominus Antonius ... Pasta was in Europe before Marco Polo. That story is one of those inaccurate food myths that won t go away.
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 5, 2005
              "P. Dominus Antonius" <marsvigilia@...>
              >It mentions pasta.
              >Wasn't pasta introduced from China by Marco Polo?
              >Are you sure that this isn't modern Roman cooking?

              Pasta was in Europe before Marco Polo. That story is one of those
              inaccurate food myths that won't go away.

              There are some quasi-pasta recipes in the ancient world. Lagana are a
              type of fried "pasta". Artolagana are seasoned lagana. The poet
              Horace writes of eating chickpeas and leeks with lagana. At least one
              writer on Roman food, Patrick Faas, speculates that the crispy strips
              were used to scoop up the chickpeas and leeks.

              "To what is called artolaganon there is added a little weak wine,
              pepper, milk, and some olive oil or fat."
              From Athenaeus, "Deipnosophistai" (circa 170-239 CE), translated as
              "The Partying Professors", also called "The Dinner of the Savants"

              And pasta was part of Near and Middle Eastern cultures already by the
              9th century - and this is a far more likely source of pasta in Europe
              - if it had to come from somewhere else.

              Anahita
            • jdm314@aol.com
              ... As has already been pointed out, the pasta is of no concern. The tomatoes are though. And the fact that this is in a series of books about cooking in
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 5, 2005
                > It mentions pasta.
                > Wasn't pasta introduced from China by Marco Polo?
                > Are you sure that this isn't modern Roman cooking?

                As has already been pointed out, the pasta is of no concern. The
                tomatoes are though. And the fact that this is in a series of books
                about cooking in different cities, including New York. Quite clearly
                this is abotu modern Roman cooking.

                How about that Philosopher's Kitchen book that was mentioned in another
                post? How come I hadn't heard of it until today?
              • P. Dominus Antonius
                I stand corrected on pasta. I particularly love the idea the MP brought pasta noodles to the Chinese. LOL. -- ... Tony Dah m Oderint dum metuant - Cicero Si
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 5, 2005
                  I stand corrected on pasta. I particularly love the idea the MP brought
                  pasta noodles to the Chinese. LOL.

                  --
                  >|P. Dominus Antonius|<
                  Tony Dah m

                  Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
                  Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • P. Dominus Antonius
                  I like the Philosopher s Kitchen by Segan. But I would also like to recommend A Taste of Ancient Rome by Giacosa. I only wish I had more time and talent
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 5, 2005
                    I like the "Philosopher's Kitchen" by Segan. But I would also like to
                    recommend "A Taste of Ancient Rome" by Giacosa.

                    I only wish I had more time and talent for cooking.

                    --
                    >|P. Dominus Antonius|<
                    Tony Dah m

                    Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
                    Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius

                    On 10/5/05, jdm314@... <jdm314@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > How about that Philosopher's Kitchen book that was mentioned in another
                    > post? How come I hadn't heard of it until today?
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Correus
                    Salve! ... WOW!!! The first chips-and-dip!! Correus __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
                    Message 9 of 9 , Nov 4 6:38 AM
                      Salve!


                      > There are some quasi-pasta recipes in the
                      > ancient world. Lagana are a
                      > type of fried "pasta". Artolagana are seasoned
                      > lagana. The poet
                      > Horace writes of eating chickpeas and leeks
                      > with lagana. At least one
                      > writer on Roman food, Patrick Faas, speculates
                      > that the crispy strips
                      > were used to scoop up the chickpeas and leeks.

                      WOW!!! The first chips-and-dip!!

                      Correus




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