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Re: [Apicius] Mesopotamian Cooking

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  • Correus
    Sorry for the late reply, I placed your e-mail in the wrong folder! Anyway, do you have a copy of this article? Larry ...
    Message 1 of 25 , Jul 29, 2005
      Sorry for the late reply, I placed your e-mail in
      the wrong folder!

      Anyway, do you have a copy of this article?

      Larry

      --- Weingarten <weingml@...> wrote:

      > Dear Larry
      > I do not have the article by Alexandra Hicks
      > but there is a very nice
      > article called 'Zukanda and other delicacies :
      > haute cuisine in the days of
      > the Hammurabi by Eveline J van der Steen with
      > details of reconstructions of
      > cooking methods etc in PPC 51, 1995. There is
      > also a bibliography - mostly
      > Botte/ro. PPC is the food history journal
      > called Petits propos culinaires -
      > if anyone on the list does not know this
      > marvelous little journal now is the
      > time. It is in English in spite of its French
      > title - when they started it
      > up all good cooking in England was French- and
      > published by Tom Jain at
      > Prospect books in Totnes (just google it for
      > the US distributor) - and has
      > all sorts of splendid articles on food and its
      > history at all periods,
      > written specifically in a style that is
      > accessible toeveryone.
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Correus" <correus@...>
      > To: <Apicius@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:21 PM
      > Subject: [Apicius] Mesopotamian Cooking
      >
      >
      > > Salve!
      > >
      > > Many, many, many years ago an article ran in
      > a
      > > magazine (I thought it was "People" or "Time"
      > or
      > > some such) dealing with Mesopotamian /
      > Assyrian
      > > cooking. It was written by a lady named
      > > Alexandra Hicks. I am 90% certain that the
      > title
      > > was "the Yale Babylonian Tablets Speak". I
      > have
      > > yet to find the article and have contacted a
      > > couple mags to see if they ran it. So far
      > > nothing.
      > >
      > > In the article Alexandra Hicks discussed the
      > > preparations of a Babylonian feast and how
      > she
      > > made it for the faculty and staff. There
      > were
      > > even color pics of the dishes.
      > >
      > > Do any of you remember this article? Who
      > printed
      > > it? Or any other info on it? I had an
      > original
      > > copy but have lost it.
      > >
      > > Thanks for the help!
      > >
      > > Larry
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > __________________________________
      > > Discover Yahoo!
      > > Have fun online with music videos, cool
      > games, IM and more. Check it out!
      > > http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      > > Unsubscribe:
      > Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > List owner: Apicius-owner@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      > > This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System
      > > at the Tel-Aviv University CC.
      >
      >


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    • Weingarten
      Dear Larry If you send me your snail mail address I will send you a copy of this article. It may take a little while before I get to the library. However, you
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 6, 2005
        Dear Larry
        If you send me your snail mail address I will send you a copy of this
        article. It may take a little while before I get to the library. However,
        you need to remember that in the paper by Botte/ro (who has spent most of
        his life on these culinary documents) : J. Bottéro The culinary tablets at
        Yale JAOS 107 (1987) 11-17, translated by JM Sasson there is a translator's
        note on p. 17 as follows: 'In a letter to me Mr Bottéro confessed that he
        would not wish such meals on his worst enemy.'
        best
        Susan
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Correus" <correus@...>
        To: <Apicius@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 1:23 AM
        Subject: Re: [Apicius] Mesopotamian Cooking


        > Sorry for the late reply, I placed your e-mail in
        > the wrong folder!
        >
        > Anyway, do you have a copy of this article?
        >
        > Larry
        >
        > --- Weingarten <weingml@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Dear Larry
        > > I do not have the article by Alexandra Hicks
        > > but there is a very nice
        > > article called 'Zukanda and other delicacies :
        > > haute cuisine in the days of
        > > the Hammurabi by Eveline J van der Steen with
        > > details of reconstructions of
        > > cooking methods etc in PPC 51, 1995. There is
        > > also a bibliography - mostly
        > > Botte/ro. PPC is the food history journal
        > > called Petits propos culinaires -
        > > if anyone on the list does not know this
        > > marvelous little journal now is the
        > > time. It is in English in spite of its French
        > > title - when they started it
        > > up all good cooking in England was French- and
        > > published by Tom Jain at
        > > Prospect books in Totnes (just google it for
        > > the US distributor) - and has
        > > all sorts of splendid articles on food and its
        > > history at all periods,
        > > written specifically in a style that is
        > > accessible toeveryone.
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "Correus" <correus@...>
        > > To: <Apicius@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:21 PM
        > > Subject: [Apicius] Mesopotamian Cooking
        > >
        > >
        > > > Salve!
        > > >
        > > > Many, many, many years ago an article ran in
        > > a
        > > > magazine (I thought it was "People" or "Time"
        > > or
        > > > some such) dealing with Mesopotamian /
        > > Assyrian
        > > > cooking. It was written by a lady named
        > > > Alexandra Hicks. I am 90% certain that the
        > > title
        > > > was "the Yale Babylonian Tablets Speak". I
        > > have
        > > > yet to find the article and have contacted a
        > > > couple mags to see if they ran it. So far
        > > > nothing.
        > > >
        > > > In the article Alexandra Hicks discussed the
        > > > preparations of a Babylonian feast and how
        > > she
        > > > made it for the faculty and staff. There
        > > were
        > > > even color pics of the dishes.
        > > >
        > > > Do any of you remember this article? Who
        > > printed
        > > > it? Or any other info on it? I had an
        > > original
        > > > copy but have lost it.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks for the help!
        > > >
        > > > Larry
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > __________________________________
        > > > Discover Yahoo!
        > > > Have fun online with music videos, cool
        > > games, IM and more. Check it out!
        > > > http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Unsubscribe:
        > > Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > > List owner: Apicius-owner@yahoogroups.com
        > > >
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > > > This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System
        > > > at the Tel-Aviv University CC.
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
        > Unsubscribe: Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > List owner: Apicius-owner@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        > This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System
        > at the Tel-Aviv University CC.
      • Heather Rose Jones
        ... Bottero seems to have changed his tune quite a bit between the publication of Textes Culinaires Mesopotamiens , where he says some rather gratuitously
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 7, 2005
          At 7:04 AM +0200 8/7/05, Weingarten wrote:
          >Dear Larry
          >If you send me your snail mail address I will send you a copy of this
          >article. It may take a little while before I get to the library. However,
          >you need to remember that in the paper by Botte/ro (who has spent most of
          >his life on these culinary documents) : J. Bottéro The culinary tablets at
          >Yale JAOS 107 (1987) 11-17, translated by JM Sasson there is a translator's
          >note on p. 17 as follows: 'In a letter to me Mr Bottéro confessed that he
          >would not wish such meals on his worst enemy.'

          Bottero seems to have changed his tune quite a
          bit between the publication of "Textes Culinaires
          Mesopotamiens", where he says some rather
          gratuitously nasty things about the ethics and
          morals of people who would attempt to re-create
          historic recipes, and the publication of "The
          Oldest Cuisine in the World: Cooking in
          Mesopotamia" where he seems quite enthusiastic
          about the idea. (I have to wonder if maybe he
          simply got bitten by the historic cooking bug
          himself between the two.)

          Heather
          --
          *****
          Heather Rose Jones
          heather.jones@...
          <http://heatherrosejones.com>
          *****
        • Jane Cates
          If he did, that s fine with me. Can anyone tell me what might be the closest extant beer to Sumerian beer? I emailed Anchor, but they had no idea. Jane Cates
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 7, 2005
            If he did, that's fine with me. Can anyone tell me what might be the closest extant beer to Sumerian beer? I emailed Anchor, but they had no idea.

            Jane Cates
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Heather Rose Jones
            To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com ; correus@...
            Cc: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 4:34 PM
            Subject: Re: [Apicius] Mesopotamian Cooking


            At 7:04 AM +0200 8/7/05, Weingarten wrote:
            >Dear Larry
            >If you send me your snail mail address I will send you a copy of this
            >article. It may take a little while before I get to the library. However,
            >you need to remember that in the paper by Botte/ro (who has spent most of
            >his life on these culinary documents) : J. Bottéro The culinary tablets at
            >Yale JAOS 107 (1987) 11-17, translated by JM Sasson there is a translator's
            >note on p. 17 as follows: 'In a letter to me Mr Bottéro confessed that he
            >would not wish such meals on his worst enemy.'

            Bottero seems to have changed his tune quite a
            bit between the publication of "Textes Culinaires
            Mesopotamiens", where he says some rather
            gratuitously nasty things about the ethics and
            morals of people who would attempt to re-create
            historic recipes, and the publication of "The
            Oldest Cuisine in the World: Cooking in
            Mesopotamia" where he seems quite enthusiastic
            about the idea. (I have to wonder if maybe he
            simply got bitten by the historic cooking bug
            himself between the two.)

            Heather
            --
            *****
            Heather Rose Jones
            heather.jones@...
            <http://heatherrosejones.com>
            *****


            Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
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          • Correus
            I have been trying to find the beer also for the past several years and found nothing. Even tried Anchor. Have you tried a local beer expert? I am going to
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 8, 2005
              I have been trying to find the beer also for the
              past several years and found nothing. Even tried
              Anchor. Have you tried a local beer expert? I
              am going to attempt that at some point. Perhaps
              there is a Yahoo group devoted to unusal beers.

              Larry (a.k.a. Correus Appius Iulianus)

              --- Jane Cates <janegc@...> wrote:

              > If he did, that's fine with me. Can anyone tell
              > me what might be the closest extant beer to
              > Sumerian beer? I emailed Anchor, but they had
              > no idea.
              >
              > Jane Cates
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Heather Rose Jones
              > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com ;
              > correus@...
              > Cc: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 4:34 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Apicius] Mesopotamian Cooking
              >
              >
              > At 7:04 AM +0200 8/7/05, Weingarten wrote:
              > >Dear Larry
              > >If you send me your snail mail address I
              > will send you a copy of this
              > >article. It may take a little while before I
              > get to the library. However,
              > >you need to remember that in the paper by
              > Botte/ro (who has spent most of
              > >his life on these culinary documents) : J.
              > Bottéro The culinary tablets at
              > >Yale JAOS 107 (1987) 11-17, translated by JM
              > Sasson there is a translator's
              > >note on p. 17 as follows: 'In a letter to me
              > Mr Bottéro confessed that he
              > >would not wish such meals on his worst
              > enemy.'
              >
              > Bottero seems to have changed his tune quite
              > a
              > bit between the publication of "Textes
              > Culinaires
              > Mesopotamiens", where he says some rather
              > gratuitously nasty things about the ethics
              > and
              > morals of people who would attempt to
              > re-create
              > historic recipes, and the publication of "The
              >
              > Oldest Cuisine in the World: Cooking in
              > Mesopotamia" where he seems quite
              > enthusiastic
              > about the idea. (I have to wonder if maybe
              > he
              > simply got bitten by the historic cooking bug
              >
              > himself between the two.)
              >
              > Heather
              > --
              > *****
              > Heather Rose Jones
              > heather.jones@...
              > <http://heatherrosejones.com>
              > *****
              >
              >
              > Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
              > Unsubscribe:
              > Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > List owner: Apicius-owner@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • janegc@comcast.net
              I hate to resort for just trying to find the least hoppy beer. They had a class on it at the Oriental Institute (I don t live in Chicago unfortunately). Maybe
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 8, 2005
                I hate to resort for just trying to find the least hoppy beer. They had a class on it at the Oriental Institute (I don't live in Chicago unfortunately). Maybe they can give me a recipe. I'll give it a try and let you know what I find out.

                Jane

                --
                Nil nimium studeo, Caesar, tibi velle placere,
                nec scire utrum sis albus an ater homo.





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • janegc@comcast.net
                Sorry - that should be resort to - and it s only Monday! Jane -- Nil nimium studeo, Caesar, tibi velle placere, nec scire utrum sis albus an ater homo.
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 8, 2005
                  Sorry - that should be "resort to" - and it's only Monday!

                  Jane

                  --
                  Nil nimium studeo, Caesar, tibi velle placere,
                  nec scire utrum sis albus an ater homo.





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • jdm314@aol.com
                  ... Yup, I attended that class actually. We tried several different recipes, and they all came out differently. I froze a bottle of the one that I thought was
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 8, 2005
                    In a message dated 8/8/05 3:46:27 PM, janegc@... writes:

                    > They had a class on it at the Oriental Institute (I don't live in Chicago
                    > unfortunately)
                    >
                    Yup, I attended that class actually. We tried several different recipes, and
                    they all came out differently. I froze a bottle of the one that I thought was
                    most accurate, but I still haven't used it (sooner or later I'll make a batch
                    of Tukh'u Stew with it.)

                    Correus, email me privately if you want me to get you in touch with the
                    person who tought that class.

                    JDM


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Mark Graef
                    If you live in driving range of Massachusetts, you could stop by and have a glass of Ninkasi ale: http://www.cambrew.com/ninkasi-ancient-sumerian-ale.htm I
                    Message 9 of 25 , Aug 8, 2005
                      If you live in driving range of Massachusetts, you could stop by and
                      have a glass of Ninkasi ale:

                      http://www.cambrew.com/ninkasi-ancient-sumerian-ale.htm

                      I don't know if you could buy some bottles to go, though . . .

                      I'm surprised Anchor Steam couldn't give you any help. They put a lot
                      of effort into their Sumerian Beer Project but seem to be willing to
                      share their knowledge with other brewers, probably because they realize
                      there is not a lot of commercial potential for such a product. I seem
                      to recall trying some of this beer in the early '90s and thinking it
                      would be neat if it caught on enough to be brewed again.

                      Maybe a home brewer could duplicate their beer from the info on their
                      site:

                      http://www.anchorbrewing.com/beers/ninkasi.htm


                      -- MARCVS EQVITIVS LENTVLVS





                      On Aug 8, 2005, at 4:44 PM, janegc@... wrote:

                      > I hate to resort for just trying to find the least hoppy beer. They
                      > had a class on it at the Oriental Institute (I don't live in Chicago
                      > unfortunately). Maybe they can give me a recipe. I'll give it a try
                      > and let you know what I find out.
                      >
                      > Jane
                      >
                      > --
                      > Nil nimium studeo, Caesar, tibi velle placere,
                      > nec scire utrum sis albus an ater homo.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com 
                      > Unsubscribe:  Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com 
                      > List owner:  Apicius-owner@yahoogroups.com 
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                      >
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                    • Correus
                      Salve! Found this link and thought you all might likt to see it. http://www.bellinitravel.com/naples/restaurants/ristorante_internazionale.html No pics - just
                      Message 10 of 25 , Aug 8, 2005
                        Salve!

                        Found this link and thought you all might likt to
                        see it.

                        http://www.bellinitravel.com/naples/restaurants/ristorante_internazionale.html

                        No pics - just info.


                        Correus


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                      • Correus
                        Salve! I thought I would pass this site on to all of you. Be sure to check out the reproductions section at the bottom. I am really surprised there isn t a
                        Message 11 of 25 , Aug 8, 2005
                          Salve!

                          I thought I would pass this site on to all of
                          you.

                          Be sure to check out the reproductions section at
                          the bottom.

                          I am really surprised there isn't a section on
                          Roman food.

                          Correus



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