Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [Apicius] cinnamon

Expand Messages
  • agmancient@aol.com
    I too had assumed that the cinnamon I d been buying was real. Not an ancient question, but does anyone have any idea whether the authentic spice or cassia
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 21, 2005
      I too had assumed that the cinnamon I'd been buying was real. Not an ancient
      question, but does anyone have any idea whether the authentic spice or cassia
      would have been sold by New England grocers in the early 20th century? My
      favorite recipe is my grandmother's molasses cookie, which of course includes
      cinnamon. Mine aren't as good as hers, but I don't know whether that's due to
      ingredients or nostalgia!
      Camden

      In a message dated 3/20/2005 12:41:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      lilinah@... writes:

      > >>>Hi, I'm afraid I use store-bought ground cinnamon. It tastes about the
      > same
      > >>>as stick cinnamon, which I assumed was real.
      >
      > Then someone answered:
      > >>One of the dirty little secrets of culinarity is that most people can't
      > tell
      > >>the difference between cassia and cinnamon, or care very much even if they
      > >>can. Unlike caviar, the cheap stuff works fine.
      >
      > In relief, Phil wrote:
      > >Thanks for the support. I was afraid I was committing a culinary travesty.
      > >Phil Zaret
      >
      > Let me say, Phil, that using what is available to you is not a culinary
      > travesty, so you're safe :-)
      >
      > Second, i do not agree with the previous poster, however. I think most
      > people have never tasted true/Ceylon cinnamon, so they are unaware of the
      > differences. Almost everyone i know who has had the opportunity to taste some has
      > been amazed at the difference.
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • medieval_man_inc@yahoo.com
      ... hers, but I don t know whether that s due to ingredients or nostalgia!Camden Thats a good question, I have found conflicting sources on that information.
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 22, 2005
        --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, agmancient@a... wrote:
        > I too had assumed that the cinnamon I'd been buying was real. Not an
        >ancient question, but does anyone have any idea whether the authentic
        >spice or cassia would have been sold by New England grocers in the
        >early 20th century? My favorite recipe is my grandmother's molasses
        >cookie, which of course includes cinnamon. Mine aren't as good as
        hers, >but I don't know whether that's due to ingredients or
        nostalgia!Camden

        Thats a good question, I have found conflicting sources on
        that information. Alot of them say it was Cassia that was found in the
        west until the 15 cent... except that true cinnamon comes from sri
        lanka and is half a world closer, so would have to have been cheeper
        until the massive plantations were set up to deal with the world wide
        demand, and the fact that true cinnamon trees didnt transplant to all
        but one other tropical area.. (sort of like allspice which is still
        only native to S.america). Though with the early spice traders using
        the spice road rather than ship, this then points back to cassia.
        India used True cinnamon all during this period which is on the way to
        the west.. but again this is conjecture. During the 19th cent its
        quite possible that your relative used true cinnamon, but who can say
        without knowing where she purchased her spices.
        X
      • pmzaret@comcast.net
        I lump cinnamon in with such ingredients as cocoa or coffee. By themselves they can taste bitter or just blah. But add sugar - whoa! that s a whole new
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 23, 2005
          I lump cinnamon in with such ingredients as cocoa or coffee. By themselves they can taste bitter or just blah. But add sugar - whoa! that's a whole new ballgame. The Cinnabon people knew what they were doing.
          Phil Zaret

          -------------- Original message --------------

          --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, agmancient@a... wrote:
          > I too had assumed that the cinnamon I'd been buying was real. Not an
          >ancient question, but does anyone have any idea whether the authentic
          >spice or cassia would have been sold by New England grocers in the
          >early 20th century? My favorite recipe is my grandmother's molasses
          >cookie, which of course includes cinnamon. Mine aren't as good as
          hers, >but I don't know whether that's due to ingredients or
          nostalgia!Camden

          Thats a good question, I have found conflicting sources on
          that information. Alot of them say it was Cassia that was found in the
          west until the 15 cent... except that true cinnamon comes from sri
          lanka and is half a world closer, so would have to have been cheeper
          until the massive plantations were set up to deal with the world wide
          demand, and the fact that true cinnamon trees didnt transplant to all
          but one other tropical area.. (sort of like allspice which is still
          only native to S.america). Though with the early spice traders using
          the spice road rather than ship, this then points back to cassia.
          India used True cinnamon all during this period which is on the way to
          the west.. but again this is conjecture. During the 19th cent its
          quite possible that your relative used true cinnamon, but who can say
          without knowing where she purchased her spices.
          X





          Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
          Unsubscribe: Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          List owner: Apicius-owner@yahoogroups.com



          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT






          Yahoo! Groups Links

          To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Apicius/

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • lilinah@earthlink.net
          Well, i suppose we are well into the realm of the off-topic, but... ... I don t think they are blah at all. But it is true that cocoa and coffee and cinnamon
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 23, 2005
            Well, i suppose we are well into the realm of the off-topic, but...

            Phil wrote:
            >I lump cinnamon in with such ingredients as cocoa or coffee. By
            >themselves they can taste bitter or just blah.

            I don't think they are blah at all. But it is true that cocoa and
            coffee and cinnamon are bitter. I drink my coffee black and i prefer
            very dark chocolate - 60 to 70 per cent cocoa mass. A pound of sugar
            can last in my house for several years.

            >But add sugar - whoa! that's a whole new ballgame. The Cinnabon
            >people knew what they were doing.

            I am in complete DISagreement. I generally avoid sweets made with
            cinnamon, except pumpkin pie and Mexican hot chocolate. I live in the
            US where there is a tendency to use way too much cinnamon, just as
            many foodstuffs, commercial and homemade, use way too much sugar
            and/or salt, obliterating rather than enhancing the flavors of the
            other ingredients.

            Cinnamon is used to hide the flavor of under ripe, and therefore less
            flavorful, fruit in pies. It is caked on top of pseudo-scones and
            rippled in so-called muffins that are just cupcakes masquerading as
            something more healthful. And there are the cinnamon rolls coated
            with so much cinnamon and high fructose corn syrup that you can't
            tell how rancid the nuts are and how flaccid, characterless, and
            lifeless the dough is.

            I prefer cinnamon in savory dishes, especially beef and pork, and
            used with a lighter hand in chicken and vegetables. And of course
            used with sensitivity, not with a heavy hand.

            Anahita
          • medieval_man_inc@yahoo.com
            ... here here... well said.. I agree, its also a very lovely and healthy tea. I then use the used sticks (after many uses) in the water on my wood stove.. it
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 24, 2005
              --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, lilinah@e... wrote:

              > I prefer cinnamon in savory dishes, especially beef and pork, and
              > used with a lighter hand in chicken and vegetables. And of course
              > used with sensitivity, not with a heavy hand.
              >
              > Anahita

              here here... well said.. I agree, its also a very lovely and healthy
              tea. I then use the used sticks (after many uses) in the water on my
              wood stove.. it gives scent for about 3 weeks.

              Xaviar
            • pmzaret@comcast.net
              Not to beat a dead horse, but cinnamon is just dandy with sweet stuff. My wife and I put cinnamon on our French toast along with maple syrup and it is
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 24, 2005
                Not to beat a dead horse, but cinnamon is just dandy with sweet stuff. My wife and I put cinnamon on our French toast along with maple syrup and it is superscrumptious.
                Phil

                -------------- Original message --------------
                Well, i suppose we are well into the realm of the off-topic, but...

                Phil wrote:
                >I lump cinnamon in with such ingredients as cocoa or coffee. By
                >themselves they can taste bitter or just blah.

                I don't think they are blah at all. But it is true that cocoa and
                coffee and cinnamon are bitter. I drink my coffee black and i prefer
                very dark chocolate - 60 to 70 per cent cocoa mass. A pound of sugar
                can last in my house for several years.

                >But add sugar - whoa! that's a whole new ballgame. The Cinnabon
                >people knew what they were doing.

                I am in complete DISagreement. I generally avoid sweets made with
                cinnamon, except pumpkin pie and Mexican hot chocolate. I live in the
                US where there is a tendency to use way too much cinnamon, just as
                many foodstuffs, commercial and homemade, use way too much sugar
                and/or salt, obliterating rather than enhancing the flavors of the
                other ingredients.

                Cinnamon is used to hide the flavor of under ripe, and therefore less
                flavorful, fruit in pies. It is caked on top of pseudo-scones and
                rippled in so-called muffins that are just cupcakes masquerading as
                something more healthful. And there are the cinnamon rolls coated
                with so much cinnamon and high fructose corn syrup that you can't
                tell how rancid the nuts are and how flaccid, characterless, and
                lifeless the dough is.

                I prefer cinnamon in savory dishes, especially beef and pork, and
                used with a lighter hand in chicken and vegetables. And of course
                used with sensitivity, not with a heavy hand.

                Anahita


                Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
                Unsubscribe: Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                List owner: Apicius-owner@yahoogroups.com



                Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                ADVERTISEMENT






                Yahoo! Groups Links

                To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Apicius/

                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • lilinah@earthlink.net
                ... Continuing to pound on that tragically deceased equine... I generally eat my waffles, pancakes, and french toast just with butter and without maple syrup.
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 24, 2005
                  >Not to beat a dead horse, but cinnamon is just dandy with sweet
                  >stuff. My wife and I put
                  >cinnamon on our French toast along with maple syrup and it is
                  >superscrumptious.
                  >
                  >Phil

                  Continuing to pound on that tragically deceased equine...

                  I generally eat my waffles, pancakes, and french toast just with
                  butter and without maple syrup. On rare occasions i do use syrup, i
                  make sure it is pure maple and not flavored and colored corn syrup.

                  However, i have adapted several recipes that are OOP-for-Apicius into
                  something i enjoy.

                  The origins of french toast are in something known as "pain perdu",
                  literally, "lost bread", and spelled various ways between the 14th
                  and 17th centuries CE, such as payn purdeuz and panperdy. It was a
                  way to use stale bread.

                  Most, but not all, related recipes, soak the slices or pieces of
                  bread in beaten egg yolks, sometimes with the addition of of saffron
                  and/or rose water. Then the bread is fried in fat of some sort, often
                  butter. The result is then frequently served sprinkled with spices
                  and sugar - sometimes saffron and/or rosewater is added here. The
                  spices are not always specified - one recipe calls for cloves, mace,
                  cinnamon and nutmeg. Another recipe specifies sprinkling the fried
                  bread with comfits of coriander seeds (coriander seeds that have been
                  coated with cooked sugar)

                  Since i don't like crunchy granulated sugar, i make a light syrup by
                  simmering granulated sugar and water with saffron, cloves, cinnamon,
                  nutmeg and/or mace. When the syrup is ready, i take it off the fire
                  and splash in some rose water, then serve this with the french toast.

                  For a collection of historic recipes, visit:
                  http://www.florilegium.org
                  and SEARCH for
                  "From Lost Bread to French Toast"

                  Anahita
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.