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Re: [Apicius] Digest Number 835

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  • Allan Hunnicutt
    Celery that is almost aniseed-like in flavour, that sounds familiar. We ve been getting such celery recently here in Hong Kong. The local Chinese variety lacks
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 1, 2005
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      Celery that is almost aniseed-like in flavour, that sounds familiar. We've been getting such celery recently here in Hong Kong. The local Chinese variety lacks the aniseed-like quality. When I first tried what appears to be the Italian version of celery, it was indeed a revelation. It was in fact the best celery I had ever tasted. One could probably substitute it for fennel if one had to.

      Allan

      Apicius@yahoogroups.com wrote:


      There are 7 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. Book
      From: sallygrain@...
      2. Roman Cook Book
      From: "Gwenhwyvar"
      3. Common Herbs In Roman Cooking According to Apicius - Lady Gwynhwyvaer ingen Grig
      From: medieval_man_inc@...
      4. Re: Common Herbs In Roman Cooking According to Apicius - Lady Gwynhwyvaer ingen Grig
      From: pmzaret@...
      5. Re: Roman Cook Book
      From: Correus
      6. Re: Book
      From: Correus
      7. Re: Lovage/artolagana
      From: Marco Berni


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 1
      Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 13:59:56 EST
      From: sallygrain@...
      Subject: Book

      Hi all

      The Apicius edition is ready to go to the publisher at last. I dont know
      how long he takes to get it to print 4 months+ probably. We had a hic up at
      christmas - family death so it all had to go on hold for time but it is now at
      an end thank heavens. More soon.

      Sally


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 2
      Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:57:13 -0600
      From: "Gwenhwyvar"
      Subject: Roman Cook Book

      I use it religiously. I do quite a bit of serious research and writing and I really like that book. Very good..highly recommend it.

      docendo discimus
      Gwenhwyvar
      http://www.housedragonor.org/art&science.html




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 3
      Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 06:00:26 -0000
      From: medieval_man_inc@...
      Subject: Common Herbs In Roman Cooking According to Apicius - Lady Gwynhwyvaer ingen Grig


      --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, "Gwenhwyvar" wrote:
      > I use it religiously. I do quite a bit of serious research and
      writing and I really like that book. Very good..highly recommend it.
      >
      > docendo discimus
      > Gwenhwyvar
      > http://www.housedragonor.org/art&science.html
      Pardon me but is this you?
      Common Herbs In Roman Cooking According to Apicius - Lady Gwynhwyvaer
      ingen Grig, CMC, CGHM

      I saw a different name listed in the member list of your house and I
      was curious about a point you may have over looked or left out.. its
      about Pepper. What I mean is you dont mention that the pepper that
      the Romans preferred was actually Piper Longum (Jaborandi Pepper) not
      Piper nigrum (black pepper). I found this out many years back when I
      was looking into Piper cubeba ( Cubebs) which I now prefer.

      Xaviar





      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 4
      Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 07:50:25 -0500
      From: pmzaret@...
      Subject: Re: Common Herbs In Roman Cooking According to Apicius - Lady Gwynhwyvaer ingen Grig

      What is the difference between Jaborandi pepper and black pepper?
      Phil Z


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 5
      Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 07:11:35 -0800 (PST)
      From: Correus
      Subject: Re: Roman Cook Book

      Thanks for the info. I feel more comfortable
      buying it now.

      Correus


      --- Robert Downie
      wrote:

      >
      > Correus wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > Greetings One & All!
      > >
      > > Saw this book for the first time while
      > browsing
      > > through Amazon - "Around the Table of the
      > Romans:
      > > Food and Feasting in Ancient Rome
      > > by Patrick Faas, Sean Whiteside". Anyone out
      > > there know anything about it?
      >
      > I have a copy and like it very much. It has
      > quite a lot of background
      > information in addition to the recipes (which
      > also include the original
      > Latin). The Chapter headings are:
      >
      > Culinary History:
      > -The Age of Kings
      > -The Republic
      > -The Empire
      >
      > The Meal:
      > -Table Manners and ttiqutette
      > -The Courses
      > -The Menu
      > The Carousal
      >
      > Wine and Other Drinks
      > -Wine
      > -The Orgy
      > -Wine Production
      > -Other Drinks
      >
      > The Cook and His Condiments
      > -The Cook
      > -Cooking
      > -Medicinal Theory
      > -Flavors - Sour
      > -Flavors - Salt
      > -Flavors - Sweet
      > -Flaviors - Bitter
      > -Herbs
      > -Spices
      > -Other Ingredients
      >
      > From the Land
      > -Cereals
      > -Pulses
      > -Vegetables
      > -Fruits and Nuts
      >
      > From the Fire
      > -Eating Meat
      > -Sacrifice
      > -Meat Distribuition
      > -Animal Suffering
      > -Pork
      > -The Sacred Bull
      > -Sheep and Goats
      > -Dogs
      > -Game
      >
      > From the Air
      > -The Farmyard
      > -Wild Birds
      >
      > From the Water
      >
      > There are lots of illustrations too, includng
      > dishware, seating
      > arrangements, etc.
      > Faerisa
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      __________________________________________________
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      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 6
      Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 07:18:10 -0800 (PST)
      From: Correus
      Subject: Re: Book

      Sally,

      Sorry to hear of your loss. Annette and I had a
      couple deaths in our family last month. Both
      within 24 hours of each other. Our thoughts will
      be with you.

      Larry


      --- sallygrain@... wrote:

      > Hi all
      >
      > The Apicius edition is ready to go to the
      > publisher at last. I dont know
      > how long he takes to get it to print 4 months+
      > probably. We had a hic up at
      > christmas - family death so it all had to go on
      > hold for time but it is now at
      > an end thank heavens. More soon.
      >
      > Sally
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
      > removed]
      >
      >


      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 7
      Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:33:26 +0100
      From: Marco Berni
      Subject: Re: Lovage/artolagana

      Sally

      (sorry for the delay in answering)

      The celery is more green celery like than the lovage I used to grow in
      the UK. This is darker green with less thick leaves and less tall with
      thin stalk and leaf (like celery tops). The flavour is like very
      strong celery (Italian celery is much stronger than the one that is
      commonly found in the UK anyway) , not really bitter but is commonly
      used for cooking rather than eating raw. I don't know about the seeds,
      celery seeds are not used in Roman-Italian cuisine these days and are
      pretty hard to find.

      I haven't seen the type of lovage that I used to have in the UK and I
      wonder if that isn't a variety specific to more northern climes.
      Consider that the only time you'll find the fleshy, watery, pale
      'white' celery that is common to the UK here in Italy is when it's
      imported and sold in a supermarket. All local produce is Italian green
      celery which is much less compact and tougher and more strong tasting,
      almost aniseed like in flavour.

      Marco.

      ps. Congrats on the book being finished. Sorry to hear of your loss.


      On Feb 4, 2005, at 14:25, sallygrain@... wrote:

      >
      > Marco what kind of lovage grows in Italy? This wild celery plant you
      > described. Is it the same as my lovage. My plant is a huge hollow
      > stemed
      > umbeliferous (sp) plant with yes celery like leaves but they are very
      > bitter in
      > comparison to celery and the seeds which I harvest for my cooking are
      > huge in
      > comparison with celery seed. they are ... long and : high with lines
      > running
      > from end to end, they are also fatter in the middle and quite flat.
      > When
      > roasted and ground they are like celery seed in flavour but
      > considereably more
      > bitter and need using with great care, to much and by that i mean
      > more then a
      > pinch and the dish is ruined. Celery seed as you know is small and
      > rounded
      > with a ridge- completely different.
      >
      > Sally Grainger
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      > Unsubscribe: Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > List owner: Apicius-owner@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________


      Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      Unsubscribe: Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      List owner: Apicius-owner@yahoogroups.com

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    • Marco Berni
      That s the one! It s a completely different experience eating wise, One of my favourite ways to eat it is a cold dish of celery cut into batons with similarly
      Message 2 of 2 , Mar 1, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        That's the one!

        It's a completely different experience eating wise, One of my
        favourite ways to eat it is a cold dish of celery cut into batons with
        similarly sized strips of cold boiled or roast chicken meat (without
        skin) mixed with a fresh lemon-olive oil mayonnaise and black pepper.

        The taste of the celery really dominates, crunchy and strong.

        Marco


        "He lives doubly who also enjoys the past."

        Martial

        On Mar 1, 2005, at 10:54, Allan Hunnicutt wrote:

        >
        > Celery that is almost aniseed-like in flavour, that sounds familiar.
        > We've been getting such celery recently here in Hong Kong. The local
        > Chinese variety lacks the aniseed-like quality. When I first tried
        > what appears to be the Italian version of celery, it was indeed a
        > revelation. It was in fact the best celery I had ever tasted. One
        > could probably substitute it for fennel if one had to.
        >
        > Allan
        >
        > Apicius@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        >
        >
        > There are 7 messages in this issue.
        >
        > Topics in this digest:
        >
        > 1. Book
        > From: sallygrain@...
        > 2. Roman Cook Book
        > From: "Gwenhwyvar"
        > 3. Common Herbs In Roman Cooking According to Apicius - Lady
        > Gwynhwyvaer ingen Grig
        > From: medieval_man_inc@...
        > 4. Re: Common Herbs In Roman Cooking According to Apicius - Lady
        > Gwynhwyvaer ingen Grig
        > From: pmzaret@...
        > 5. Re: Roman Cook Book
        > From: Correus
        > 6. Re: Book
        > From: Correus
        > 7. Re: Lovage/artolagana
        > From: Marco Berni
        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        >
        > Message: 1
        > Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 13:59:56 EST
        > From: sallygrain@...
        > Subject: Book
        >
        > Hi all
        >
        > The Apicius edition is ready to go to the publisher at last. I dont
        > know
        > how long he takes to get it to print 4 months+ probably. We had a hic
        > up at
        > christmas - family death so it all had to go on hold for time but it
        > is now at
        > an end thank heavens. More soon.
        >
        > Sally
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        >
        > Message: 2
        > Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:57:13 -0600
        > From: "Gwenhwyvar"
        > Subject: Roman Cook Book
        >
        > I use it religiously. I do quite a bit of serious research and writing
        > and I really like that book. Very good..highly recommend it.
        >
        > docendo discimus
        > Gwenhwyvar
        > http://www.housedragonor.org/art&science.html
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        >
        > Message: 3
        > Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 06:00:26 -0000
        > From: medieval_man_inc@...
        > Subject: Common Herbs In Roman Cooking According to Apicius - Lady
        > Gwynhwyvaer ingen Grig
        >
        >
        > --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com, "Gwenhwyvar" wrote:
        >> I use it religiously. I do quite a bit of serious research and
        > writing and I really like that book. Very good..highly recommend it.
        >>
        >> docendo discimus
        >> Gwenhwyvar
        >> http://www.housedragonor.org/art&science.html
        > Pardon me but is this you?
        > Common Herbs In Roman Cooking According to Apicius - Lady Gwynhwyvaer
        > ingen Grig, CMC, CGHM
        >
        > I saw a different name listed in the member list of your house and I
        > was curious about a point you may have over looked or left out.. its
        > about Pepper. What I mean is you dont mention that the pepper that
        > the Romans preferred was actually Piper Longum (Jaborandi Pepper) not
        > Piper nigrum (black pepper). I found this out many years back when I
        > was looking into Piper cubeba ( Cubebs) which I now prefer.
        >
        > Xaviar
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        >
        > Message: 4
        > Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 07:50:25 -0500
        > From: pmzaret@...
        > Subject: Re: Common Herbs In Roman Cooking According to Apicius - Lady
        > Gwynhwyvaer ingen Grig
        >
        > What is the difference between Jaborandi pepper and black pepper?
        > Phil Z
        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        >
        > Message: 5
        > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 07:11:35 -0800 (PST)
        > From: Correus
        > Subject: Re: Roman Cook Book
        >
        > Thanks for the info. I feel more comfortable
        > buying it now.
        >
        > Correus
        >
        >
        > --- Robert Downie
        > wrote:
        >
        >>
        >> Correus wrote:
        >>
        >>>
        >>> Greetings One & All!
        >>>
        >>> Saw this book for the first time while
        >> browsing
        >>> through Amazon - "Around the Table of the
        >> Romans:
        >>> Food and Feasting in Ancient Rome
        >>> by Patrick Faas, Sean Whiteside". Anyone out
        >>> there know anything about it?
        >>
        >> I have a copy and like it very much. It has
        >> quite a lot of background
        >> information in addition to the recipes (which
        >> also include the original
        >> Latin). The Chapter headings are:
        >>
        >> Culinary History:
        >> -The Age of Kings
        >> -The Republic
        >> -The Empire
        >>
        >> The Meal:
        >> -Table Manners and ttiqutette
        >> -The Courses
        >> -The Menu
        >> The Carousal
        >>
        >> Wine and Other Drinks
        >> -Wine
        >> -The Orgy
        >> -Wine Production
        >> -Other Drinks
        >>
        >> The Cook and His Condiments
        >> -The Cook
        >> -Cooking
        >> -Medicinal Theory
        >> -Flavors - Sour
        >> -Flavors - Salt
        >> -Flavors - Sweet
        >> -Flaviors - Bitter
        >> -Herbs
        >> -Spices
        >> -Other Ingredients
        >>
        >> From the Land
        >> -Cereals
        >> -Pulses
        >> -Vegetables
        >> -Fruits and Nuts
        >>
        >> From the Fire
        >> -Eating Meat
        >> -Sacrifice
        >> -Meat Distribuition
        >> -Animal Suffering
        >> -Pork
        >> -The Sacred Bull
        >> -Sheep and Goats
        >> -Dogs
        >> -Game
        >>
        >> From the Air
        >> -The Farmyard
        >> -Wild Birds
        >>
        >> From the Water
        >>
        >> There are lots of illustrations too, includng
        >> dishware, seating
        >> arrangements, etc.
        >> Faerisa
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        >
        > Message: 6
        > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 07:18:10 -0800 (PST)
        > From: Correus
        > Subject: Re: Book
        >
        > Sally,
        >
        > Sorry to hear of your loss. Annette and I had a
        > couple deaths in our family last month. Both
        > within 24 hours of each other. Our thoughts will
        > be with you.
        >
        > Larry
        >
        >
        > --- sallygrain@... wrote:
        >
        >> Hi all
        >>
        >> The Apicius edition is ready to go to the
        >> publisher at last. I dont know
        >> how long he takes to get it to print 4 months+
        >> probably. We had a hic up at
        >> christmas - family death so it all had to go on
        >> hold for time but it is now at
        >> an end thank heavens. More soon.
        >>
        >> Sally
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
        >> removed]
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        >
        > Message: 7
        > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:33:26 +0100
        > From: Marco Berni
        > Subject: Re: Lovage/artolagana
        >
        > Sally
        >
        > (sorry for the delay in answering)
        >
        > The celery is more green celery like than the lovage I used to grow in
        > the UK. This is darker green with less thick leaves and less tall with
        > thin stalk and leaf (like celery tops). The flavour is like very
        > strong celery (Italian celery is much stronger than the one that is
        > commonly found in the UK anyway) , not really bitter but is commonly
        > used for cooking rather than eating raw. I don't know about the seeds,
        > celery seeds are not used in Roman-Italian cuisine these days and are
        > pretty hard to find.
        >
        > I haven't seen the type of lovage that I used to have in the UK and I
        > wonder if that isn't a variety specific to more northern climes.
        > Consider that the only time you'll find the fleshy, watery, pale
        > 'white' celery that is common to the UK here in Italy is when it's
        > imported and sold in a supermarket. All local produce is Italian green
        > celery which is much less compact and tougher and more strong tasting,
        > almost aniseed like in flavour.
        >
        > Marco.
        >
        > ps. Congrats on the book being finished. Sorry to hear of your loss.
        >
        >
        > On Feb 4, 2005, at 14:25, sallygrain@... wrote:
        >
        >>
        >> Marco what kind of lovage grows in Italy? This wild celery plant you
        >> described. Is it the same as my lovage. My plant is a huge hollow
        >> stemed
        >> umbeliferous (sp) plant with yes celery like leaves but they are very
        >> bitter in
        >> comparison to celery and the seeds which I harvest for my cooking are
        >> huge in
        >> comparison with celery seed. they are ... long and : high with lines
        >> running
        >> from end to end, they are also fatter in the middle and quite flat.
        >> When
        >> roasted and ground they are like celery seed in flavour but
        >> considereably more
        >> bitter and need using with great care, to much and by that i mean
        >> more then a
        >> pinch and the dish is ruined. Celery seed as you know is small and
        >> rounded
        >> with a ridge- completely different.
        >>
        >> Sally Grainger
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
        >> Unsubscribe: Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >> List owner: Apicius-owner@yahoogroups.com
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        > _______________________________________________________________________
        > _
        >
        >
        > Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
        > Unsubscribe: Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > List owner: Apicius-owner@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > -
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > -
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Send instant messages to your online friends
        > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Post message: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
        > Unsubscribe: Apicius-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > List owner: Apicius-owner@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



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