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5456Re: [Apicius] Cardui

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  • Justin Mansfield
    Sep 1, 2013
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      OK I'm eating Apicius 3.19.2, according to Faas's redaction. Not bad! If
      any of you choose to make that, here are my notes:

      - Di immortales are cardoons hard to trim!! Took forever!
      - The quantities of herbs he gives are quite large and result in a sort
      of chimichurri. Might be a good idea to reduce them at least a little.
      - 30 minutes on my stove was a little too long.
      - He forgets to list the pepper, so don't leave it out. Could also use
      some salt, I think.



      On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Justin Mansfield <iustinus@...> wrote:

      > OK, to help make sense of this:
      >
      > - I posted saying I had cardoons, and was researching them.
      > - Lucia suggested a recipe
      > - I said I was researching ancient recipes. There are a lot of terms
      > for cardoons in Greek and Latin, and one is particularly thorny, namely
      > *sfondilus*. That word has several meanings, including part of the
      > cardoon, and a mollusk. When it occurs in Apicius, some editors say it
      > refers to the vegetable, some to the mollusk. Therefore, I wasn't planning
      > to include *sfondilus* recipes.
      > - Lucia, curious about the *sfondilus* mollusk, suggests it might be
      > the one called *scungilli* in Italian (so far as I can tell, in
      > English it is considered a type of whelk, by the way)
      > - I say that, in fact, it is supposedly *Spondylus gaederopus.*
      > - Lucia posts an image of a *scungillo* for reference.
      >
      > So yes, we're kind of off topic, but what else is new? ;)
      >
      > So, to get back on topic, here's a list of my recipes (perhaps I'll give
      > more details later):
      >
      > - The three recipes given in Apicius 3.19. Gozzini-Giacosa gives
      > redactions of all three (though in these cases she substitutes artichokes),
      > Faas gives one (and it looks pretty good, I may try it).
      > - Pliny gives a recipe to preserve cardoons so you can have them all
      > year round.
      > - So does Theophrastus (though his is just to store it in brine)
      > - Galen calls them unhealthy, but gives two ways to prepare them to
      > mitigate this, one of which is fairly elaborate.
      >
      > So, that makes 7 recipes, of which 5 are at all detailed.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Correus <correus@...> wrote:
      >
      >> **
      >>
      >>
      >> Did an e-mail get mislaid? How did we go from "Cardui" to "sfondilus",
      >> "scungilli" and "Spondylus gaederopus"?
      >>
      >> Last Cadiu e-mail I got said "My mother used to do a Parmigiana with
      >> them. Maybe with semi-soft cheese and a touch of Garum?" and then it went
      >> to the other.
      >>
      >> Correus
      >>
      >> ________________________________
      >> From: Justin Mansfield <iustinus@...>
      >> To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      >> Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 9:00 PM
      >> Subject: Re: [Apicius] Cardui
      >>
      >>
      >> According to Andrew Dalby it's *Spondylus gaederopus*, the Spiny European
      >>
      >> Oyster. I don't know what its common Italian name is, but googling turns
      >> up
      >> spondilo, spronnulo, ostrica rossa, ostrica spinosa, and scataponzolo.
      >>
      >> On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 6:57 PM, Lucia Clark <luciaclark@...
      >> >wrote:
      >>
      >> > **
      >>
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > Could they be the modern "scungilli"?
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > -----Original Message-----
      >> > From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On
      >> Behalf
      >> > Of
      >> > Justin Mansfield
      >> > Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:45 PM
      >> > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      >> > Subject: Re: [Apicius] Cardui
      >> >
      >> > I'm hard at work putting together all the ancient recipes, and modern
      >> > redactions. For now I'm not including the word *sfondilus*, which the
      >> big
      >> >
      >> > names of Roman food scholarship generally interpret as referring to the
      >> > mollusk of the same name. But there are several good possibilities
      >> already!
      >> >
      >> > On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Lucia Clark
      >> > <luciaclark@...>wrote:
      >> >
      >> > > **
      >> >
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > > My mother used to do a Parmigiana with them. Maybe with semi-soft
      >> cheese
      >> > > and
      >> > > a touch of Garum?
      >> > >
      >> > > _____
      >> > >
      >> > > From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com] On
      >> Behalf
      >> > > Of
      >> > > Justin Mansfield
      >> > > Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 4:58 PM
      >> > > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      >> > > Subject: [Apicius] Cardui
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > > Just managed to get my hands on a head of cardoons! Now I just need to
      >> > > figure out what to do with them ;)
      >> > >
      >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >> > >
      >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> > >
      >> >
      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >> >
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      >> >
      >> >
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      >>
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      >>
      >
      >


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