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2743Re: [Apicius] Re: Recipes

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  • Correus
    Nov 4, 2005
      Just thought it would add a nice flavor.

      Correus

      --- Cathy Kaufman <cathykkaufman@...>
      wrote:

      > Roasting the garlic would certainly mellow the
      > flavor, but there doesn't seem to be any
      > textual support for that treatment. The
      > "Virgil" moretum clearly uses either raw or
      > barely-blanched garlic, because the fumes sting
      > Similus's eyes as he is pounding away.
      >
      > Cathy
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Correus
      > To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:45 AM
      > Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Apicius] Re:
      > Recipes
      >
      >
      > Have any of you tried roasting the garlic
      > first
      > when making Moretum?
      >
      > Correus
      >
      > --- Aurelia Rufinia
      > <aureliarufinia@...>
      > wrote:
      >
      > > True. The Moretum in Virgil has four heads
      > > (yes,
      > > heads, not cloves) of garlic. When I make
      > it,
      > > I use
      > > roughly one head (smallish) to a pound of
      > > cheese.
      > >
      > > Aurelia
      > >
      > > --- Marco Berni <mberni@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > > What do you mean by 'not that much garlic
      > in
      > > ancient
      > > > Rome'?
      > > >
      > > > The romans ate garlic as did the Greeks,
      > read
      > > your
      > > > Virgil, Homer and
      > > > Pliny.
      > > >
      > > > It was heavily consumed by both Romans
      > and
      > > Greeks,
      > > > indeed onion and
      > > > garlic are the 'smells of the poor' who
      > used
      > > it
      > > > extensively in food.
      > > >
      > > > Apicius may not make much use of it, but
      > his
      > > cuisine
      > > > has nothing to
      > > > do with the food of the 'Romans', his is
      > the
      > > food of
      > > > the elite and as
      > > > we were talking of the food of the common
      > > people
      > > > garlic has its place
      > > > as do onions.
      > > >
      > > > Marco
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On Sep 30, 2005, at 18:00, RM wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > Not that much garlic in ancient Rome
      > ...
      > > ;-)
      > > > >
      > > > > Well, we know a bit from Columella et
      > al.
      > > what
      > > > they cultivated in
      > > > > their
      > > > > gardens. But I think the recipes found
      > in
      > > Apicius
      > > > are not only for
      > > > > the high
      > > > > society - there are a lot of "normal"
      > > recipes.
      > > > Also Cato tells us a
      > > > > bit
      > > > > about simple meals.
      > > > >
      > > > > Best regards
      > > > >
      > > > > RM
      > > > >
      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > From: "Marco Berni"
      > <mberni@...>
      > > > > To: <Apicius@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:19
      > AM
      > > > > Subject: Re: [Apicius] Re: Recipes
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > That is common misconception.
      > > > >
      > > > > For 'Romans' one must differentiate
      > between
      > > the
      > > > city dwelling capiti
      > > > > censi (who indeed lived largely on
      > state
      > > and other
      > > > handouts,
      > > > > depending on the historical time frame)
      > and
      > > those
      > > > citizens of the
      > > > > 'middle' classes who came from the
      > > countryside,
      > > > both around Latium
      > > > > and later around Italia.
      > > > >
      > > > > These citizens would have had access to
      > a
      > > > reasonably varied diet
      > > > > based on their own locally grown,
      > farmed
      > > (or
      > > > fished or caught)
      > > > > produce.
      > > > >
      > > > > Those that lived by the sea would have
      > had
      > > a more
      > > > fish based diet,
      > > > > those inland more fowl and vegetable.
      > > > >
      > > > > It therefore is possible to recreate
      > foods
      > > the
      > > > Romans 'might' have
      > > > > eaten (I say might as we have no
      > written
      > > recipes
      > > > to go on, only
      > > > > knowledge of what was
      > grown/fished/farmed
      > > and the
      > > > guidelines
      > > > > presented by how much of this same
      > fayre
      > > has been
      > > > eaten since before
      > > > > living memory in the regions concerned.
      > > > >
      > > > > It is a fairly safe bet that a grilled
      > fish
      > > of a
      > > > plate of sautéed
      > > > > mussels would undergo (broadly) the
      > same
      > > > preparation then as now.
      > > > > Oil, herbs, garlic and wine..
      > > > >
      > > > > Marco
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > On Sep 29, 2005, at 22:32, Richard Cook
      > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >> The way I understand Roman society the
      > > 'average
      > > > Roman' would
      > > > >> probably be
      > > > >> very poor, possibly iving on a
      > subsistance
      > > diet -
      > > > porridge, pottage
      > > > >> etc, or
      > > > >> perhaps with some income enabling them
      > to
      > > buy
      > > > food from a
      > > > >> thermapolium etc.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> High status food was for the rich,
      > exotic
      > > meats,
      > > > rare spices,
      > > > >> delicaces etc.
      > > > >> Low status food was for the masses, a
      > > fairly
      > > > bland diet as I
      > > > >> understand it.
      > > > >> I'm not sure who would be described as
      > > 'middle
      > > > class'. Perhaps the
      > > > >> Legionary soldier, who earnt a wage
      > and
      > > might
      > > > have disposable income.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> gnaeus
      > > > >> -----Original Message-----
      > > > >> From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      > > > [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com]On
      > > > >> Behalf Of
      > > > >> Lucius Servilius
      > > > >> Sent: 29 September 2005 06:45
      > > > >> To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      > > > >> Subject: [Apicius] Re: Recipes
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >> --- In Apicius@yahoogroups.com,
      > "Richard
      > > Cook"
      > > > <richard_cook@b...>
      > > > >> wrote:
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >>> What equipment do you have? Basic
      > > pots,pans,
      > > > firepit.
      > > > >>> How many are you feeding? 3
      > > > >>> High status or low? If you mean am I
      > > upper class
      > > > or low class I am
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >> middle class. I just want average
      > meals
      > > for
      > > > breakfast - lunch -
      > > > >> dinner & a decent dessert. That an
      > > average
      > > > roman would have ate.
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> gnaeus
      > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
      > > > >>> From: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      > > > [mailto:Apicius@yahoogroups.com]On
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >> Behalf Of
      > > > >>
      > > > >>
      > > > >>> Lucius Servilius
      > > > >>> Sent: 28 September 2005 07:01
      > > > >>> To: Apicius@yahoogroups.com
      > > > >>> Subject: [Apicius] Recipes
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> Salvete Omnes,
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> I am looking for a days worth of
      > > recipes just
      > > > three meals with
      > > > >>> dessert. Any assistance would be
      > > greatly
      > > > appreciated.
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> Valete,
      > > > >>> Lucius Servilius
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> Post message:
      > Apicius@yahoogroups.com
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      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>>
      > > > >>> SPONSORED LINKS Ancient history A
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      > > > history of time Ancient
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      > > > >>
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      > > > >>>
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
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      > > === message truncated ===
      > >
      > >
      > > Baroness Aurelia Rufinia
      > > Barony of Carolingia,
      > > East Kingdom, Northshield Ex-Pat
      > >
      > > "I think we've all arrived at a very
      > special
      > > place. Spiritually, ecumenically,
      > > grammatically..."
      > >
      > >
      > >
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