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Re: [Antir_culinary] Books of note

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  • The Henson's
    How cool was that? I am sure many would like to hear about your experience. I know I would. And Thank you for citing the better reference. I don t have any
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 31, 2011
      How cool was that? I am sure many would like to hear about your
      experience. I know I would. And Thank you for citing the better reference.

      I don't have any real familiarity with Markham, myself, and this is
      clearly not annotated as a scholarly text, but it is so rare to see
      anything remotely purporting to be a reprint of a historical text in an
      general bookstore, that I thought they might be worth mentioning. Often
      such things make useful stepping stones for people unfamiliar with the
      ins and outs of scholarly editions but who are ready to step up from the
      "common wisdom" of the pretty but poorly researched coffee table book. I
      am trying very hard to demystify period food for the masses, so to
      speak, locally and these sort of things are far less intimidating to
      someone new to field.

      You know a list of good research books might be a very good project for
      our nascent guild.

      Rycheza

      On 12/31/2011 4:47 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
      >
      >
      > I purchased the Gervase Markham volume to see what they had done with
      > the text. (I was lucky enough to attend a special session on Markham and
      > his works held by Ivan Day in Cumbria in 2006. The guest at dinner was
      > The Rev. Gervase Markham, a direct descendent of the original author's
      > brother. So you can see that I have a long standing and great fondness
      > for Markham.)
      >
      > Markham of course never published a work titled "The Well-kept Kitchen"
      > and indeed
      > this is labeled as "an extract" from Markham's The English Housewife
      > which was first published in 1615 as part of another longer work.
      > Penguin doesn't indicate if they used the actual 1615 text or a later
      > edition. If they used a 1615, which copy did they use? and if they used
      > the actual 1615, then they have modernized the spellings, etc. Not a
      > long "s" to be found. There is no introduction or editor's note which
      > provides that information. No helpful notes at all.
      >
      > There is another choice.
      > The 1631 edition owned by the British Library is the copy text that
      > Michael Best edited in 1994. He collated it with the other surviving
      > editions. It can be found as:
      >
      >
      > The English Housewife: Containing the Inward and Outward Virtues Which
      > Ought to Be in a Complete Woman; As Her Skill in Physic, Cookery,
      > [McGill-Queen's University Press (October 1994)]
      >
      > For the money and if you want a great reliable edition of Markham, I
      > would urge people to spend a few dollars more and buy that edition. It
      > has the footnotes, glossary, bibliography, and all the scholarly
      > information that this Penguin edition lacks.
      >
      > Johnnae llyn Lewis
      >
    • Johnna Holloway
      Sorry to be late with a reply. We were gone for a few days & I couldn t post from the hotel. I wanted to mention that descriptions of Ivan Day s sessions can
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 4, 2012
        Sorry to be late with a reply. We were gone for a few days &
        I couldn't post from the hotel. 
        I wanted to mention that descriptions of Ivan Day's sessions can be found at

        As to resources, there will be a panel session on ": Researching Sources Or I am sure there's a better way..." at the upcoming West Coast Culinary Symposium in February.

        Class Description: The research into historical foodways and cookery has exploded in just the past quarter century. What are the best ways to find the sources, the books, the articles, the hints, and tips? Bring questions  

        (There also will be a session on the English sources and how to find those following this session.)

        Also, although it's a bit dated there is an article on cookery resources which I wrote.
        Tournaments Illuminated   #156 Fall issue 2005 major article titled “The Essentials 
        Or Culinary Texts A Reader Must Know About—” which featured a reading list of sources one should use when starting out in cookery.

        I am in the process of updating the list and including new books and resources.

        Johnnae llyn Lewis

        On Dec 31, 2011, at 9:48 PM, The Henson's wrote:

        How cool was that? I am sure many would like to hear about your 
        experience. I know I would. And Thank you for citing the better reference.

        I don't have any real familiarity with Markham, myself, and this is 
        clearly not annotated as a scholarly text, but it is so rare to see 
        anything remotely purporting to be a reprint of a historical text in an 
        general bookstore, that I thought they might be worth mentioning. Often 
        such things make useful stepping stones for people unfamiliar with the 
        ins and outs of scholarly editions but who are ready to step up from the 
        "common wisdom" of the pretty but poorly researched coffee table book. I 
        am trying very hard to demystify period food for the masses, so to 
        speak, locally and these sort of things are far less intimidating to 
        someone new to field.

        You know a list of good research books might be a very good project for 
        our nascent guild.

        Rycheza

        On 12/31/2011 4:47 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
        >
        >
        > I purchased the Gervase Markham volume to see what they had done with
        > the text. (I was lucky enough to attend a special session on Markham and
        > his works held by Ivan Day in Cumbria in 2006. The guest at dinner was
        > The Rev. Gervase Markham, a direct descendent of the original author's
        > brother. So you can see that I have a long standing and great fondness
        > for Markham.)
        >
        > Markham of course never published a work titled "The Well-kept Kitchen"
        > and indeed
        > this is labeled as "an extract" from Markham's The English Housewife
        > which was first published in 1615 as part of another longer work.
        > Penguin doesn't indicate if they used the actual 1615 text or a later
        > edition. If they used a 1615, which copy did they use? and if they used
        > the actual 1615, then they have modernized the spellings, etc. Not a
        > long "s" to be found. There is no introduction or editor's note which
        > provides that information. No helpful notes at all.
        >
        > There is another choice.
        > The 1631 edition owned by the British Library is the copy text that
        > Michael Best edited in 1994. He collated it with the other surviving
        > editions. It can be found as:
        >
        >
        > The English Housewife: Containing the Inward and Outward Virtues Which
        > Ought to Be in a Complete Woman; As Her Skill in Physic, Cookery,
        > [McGill-Queen's University Press (October 1994)]
        >
        > For the money and if you want a great reliable edition of Markham, I
        > would urge people to spend a few dollars more and buy that edition. It
        > has the footnotes, glossary, bibliography, and all the scholarly
        > information that this Penguin edition lacks.
        >
        > Johnnae llyn Lewis
        >


      • The Henson's
        I have perused the historicfood.com site in the past. They sound delightful, but what I was curious about was your experience of the classes. What was your
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 5, 2012
          I have perused the historicfood.com site in the past. They sound
          delightful, but what I was curious about was your experience of the
          classes. What was your favorite part? What surprised you the most? What
          was not up to your expectations? Would you go again? What was Rev.
          Markham like?

          I am hopeful to attend the upcoming symposium, however, I have a small
          medical thing to resolve before I can make plans. But I do know a number
          of people for whom it is out of reach, no matter how great the longing
          to attend.

          Rycheza

          On 1/4/2012 6:56 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
          >
          >
          > Sorry to be late with a reply. We were gone for a few days &
          > I couldn't post from the hotel.
          > I wanted to mention that descriptions of Ivan Day's sessions can be found at
          > http://www.historicfood.com/courses.htm
          >
          > As to resources, there will be a panel session on ": Researching Sources
          > Or I am sure there's a better way..." at the upcoming West Coast
          > Culinary Symposium in February.
          >
          > Class Description: The research into historical foodways and cookery has
          > exploded in just the past quarter century. What are the best ways to
          > find the sources, the books, the articles, the hints, and tips? Bring
          > questions
          >
          > (There also will be a session on the English sources and how to find
          > those following this session.)
          >
          > Also, although it's a bit dated there is an article on cookery resources
          > which I wrote.
          > Tournaments Illuminated #156 Fall issue 2005 major article titled “The
          > Essentials
          > Or Culinary Texts A Reader Must Know About—” which featured a reading
          > list of sources one should use when starting out in cookery.
          >
          > I am in the process of updating the list and including new books and
          > resources.
          >
          > Johnnae llyn Lewis
          >
          > On Dec 31, 2011, at 9:48 PM, The Henson's wrote:
          >
          >> How cool was that? I am sure many would like to hear about your
        • Johnna Holloway
          Our session was a special class set up with a group who did the Leeds Symposium first, then we went to Ivan s. We d all met Ivan previously and two of the
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 5, 2012
            Our session was a special class set up with a group who did the Leeds
            Symposium first, then we went to Ivan's. We'd all met Ivan previously
            and two of the folks had already taken one of his classes. Unlike most
            classes it was all comprised of a group of Americans.... 4 from the
            SCA along with a food historian from PA who knew one of us previously.
            After Ivan's two of the group went onto another food session at Oxford
            University. (That was even more expensive than Ivan's) Make no
            mistake. It was a very expensive couple of weeks. Ivan's sessions do
            not include the additional costs of a hotel or B & B. Or train or
            rental car to his place. Four of us also did at least one day also at
            Hampton Court doing cookery there too. It was a very intensive couple
            of weeks.

            I liked the style of the class and seeing all of his molds. One thing
            he did for me was pull some older books so I could see those. I
            collect cookbooks and he knew that. The only bad part... i would have
            liked another day. I win the lottery someday, I am going to hire him
            for a few days and set up a few special sessions where we go tour
            kitchens and behind the scenes sorts of things.

            At the dinner, I was seated next to the Rev. Markham, I think in part
            because he and I shared a connection with Cambridge University. My
            husband and I spent an academic year at Cambridge so we discussed the
            colleges and Cambridge. He was 95. Quite a character.

            The price is now three hundred pounds which is very steep. For some
            people I think the price is just right or a bargain and they are
            perfectly willing to part with the money. Others may find it far too
            expensive for a two day session. A session doing historical cookery
            someplace here in the states might be more worthwhile or even
            attending Pennsic for a two weeks might be as enjoyable.

            Ivan can be seen in some of these videos. http://www.artisan-food.tv/

            Also the issue of Artisan-food from December 2010 features Ivan.

            Does this information help?

            Johnnae

            Sent from my iPad

            On Jan 5, 2012, at 6:23 PM, The Henson's <mhenson@...> wrote:

            > I have perused the historicfood.com site in the past. They sound
            > delightful, but what I was curious about was your experience of the
            > classes. What was your favorite part? What surprised you the most?
            > What
            > was not up to your expectations? Would you go again? What was Rev.
            > Markham like?
            >
            > I am hopeful to attend the upcoming symposium, however, I have a small
            > medical thing to resolve before I can make plans. But I do know a
            > number
            > of people for whom it is out of reach, no matter how great the longing
            > to attend.
            >
            > Rycheza
            >
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
          • The Henson's
            Thanks for the insight. Sorry I didn t get back to you earlier-a few small but irritating life glitches. Someday I hope to get back across the pond and focus
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 17, 2012
              Thanks for the insight. Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier-a few
              small but irritating life glitches.
              Someday I hope to get back across the pond and focus more on foodie things.

              Rycheza


              On 1/5/2012 7:35 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
              > Our session was a special class set up with a group who did the Leeds
              > Symposium first, then we went to Ivan's. We'd all met Ivan previously
              > and two of the folks had already taken one of his classes. Unlike most
              > classes it was all comprised of a group of Americans.... 4 from the
              > SCA along with a food historian from PA who knew one of us previously.
              > After Ivan's two of the group went onto another food session at Oxford
              > University. (That was even more expensive than Ivan's) Make no
              > mistake. It was a very expensive couple of weeks. Ivan's sessions do
              > not include the additional costs of a hotel or B& B. Or train or
              > rental car to his place. Four of us also did at least one day also at
              > Hampton Court doing cookery there too. It was a very intensive couple
              > of weeks.
              >
              > I liked the style of the class and seeing all of his molds. One thing
              > he did for me was pull some older books so I could see those. I
              > collect cookbooks and he knew that. The only bad part... i would have
              > liked another day. I win the lottery someday, I am going to hire him
              > for a few days and set up a few special sessions where we go tour
              > kitchens and behind the scenes sorts of things.
              >
              > At the dinner, I was seated next to the Rev. Markham, I think in part
              > because he and I shared a connection with Cambridge University. My
              > husband and I spent an academic year at Cambridge so we discussed the
              > colleges and Cambridge. He was 95. Quite a character.
              >
              > The price is now three hundred pounds which is very steep. For some
              > people I think the price is just right or a bargain and they are
              > perfectly willing to part with the money. Others may find it far too
              > expensive for a two day session. A session doing historical cookery
              > someplace here in the states might be more worthwhile or even
              > attending Pennsic for a two weeks might be as enjoyable.
              >
              > Ivan can be seen in some of these videos. http://www.artisan-food.tv/
              >
              > Also the issue of Artisan-food from December 2010 features Ivan.
              >
              > Does this information help?
              >
              > Johnnae
              >
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