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Re: Irish lyres

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  • Simon Chadwick
    Patrick, sorry I do agree with you really. ... Both bowed lyres and fiddles are bowed, yes but also both have tailpieces and bridges and flattish resonators. I
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 2, 2007
      Patrick, sorry I do agree with you really.

      > would say lyres are more complex and younger than harps. And I see
      > lyres as connected to later fiddle traditions (e.g. via crwth) not to
      > harp traditions.

      Both bowed lyres and fiddles are bowed, yes but also both have
      tailpieces and bridges and flattish resonators. I made this
      connection after seeing an Estonnian talharpa player who also did
      fiddle for 'variety'; I was amazed to see her making the same noises
      on a standard violin. So I am talking both technology and technique.
      Sure they are not intimately related but are closer than harp & lyre
      which was my point.

      Simon
    • LM
      Here s a site I found that has links to some really cool performance stuff. Try either of these: Virbel Viljandin festivaaleilla, kesä 2003 Virbel, syyskuu
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 2, 2007
        Here's a site I found that has links to some really cool performance stuff.

        Try either of these:

        Virbel Viljandin festivaaleilla, kesä 2003

        Virbel, syyskuu 2005


        Larry M



        Simon Chadwick wrote:

        > Patrick, sorry I do agree with you really.
        >
        > > would say lyres are more complex and younger than harps. And I see
        > > lyres as connected to later fiddle traditions (e.g. via crwth) not to
        > > harp traditions.
        >
        > Both bowed lyres and fiddles are bowed, yes but also both have
        > tailpieces and bridges and flattish resonators. I made this
        > connection after seeing an Estonnian talharpa player who also did
        > fiddle for 'variety'; I was amazed to see her making the same noises
        > on a standard violin. So I am talking both technology and technique.
        > Sure they are not intimately related but are closer than harp & lyre
        > which was my point.
        >
        > Simon
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • LM
        Oops: here s the link: http://www2.siba.fi/jouhikko/linkit.html Then try the other links below. Funny- when I first downloaded the Virbel performances, they
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 2, 2007
          Oops: here's the link: http://www2.siba.fi/jouhikko/linkit.html


          Then try the other links below.

          Funny- when I first downloaded the Virbel performances, they were .rm.ram links,
          which means they were video. The current ones don't seem to have that feature.

          Or maybe it's just me....

          Larry


          LM wrote:

          > Here's a site I found that has links to some really cool performance stuff.
          >
          > Try either of these:
          >
          > Virbel Viljandin festivaaleilla, kesä 2003
          >
          > Virbel, syyskuu 2005
          >
          >
          > Larry M
          >
          >
          >
          > Simon Chadwick wrote:
          >
          >
          >>Patrick, sorry I do agree with you really.
          >>
          >> > would say lyres are more complex and younger than harps. And I see
          >> > lyres as connected to later fiddle traditions (e.g. via crwth) not to
          >> > harp traditions.
          >>
          >>Both bowed lyres and fiddles are bowed, yes but also both have
          >>tailpieces and bridges and flattish resonators. I made this
          >>connection after seeing an Estonnian talharpa player who also did
          >>fiddle for 'variety'; I was amazed to see her making the same noises
          >>on a standard violin. So I am talking both technology and technique.
          >>Sure they are not intimately related but are closer than harp & lyre
          >>which was my point.
          >>
          >>Simon
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Patrick
          If closer than harp & lyre was your point, then I have to agree. ;-) But I understood you meant that crwths and fiddles were historically related . To use a
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 6, 2007
            If 'closer than harp & lyre' was your point, then I have to agree. ;-)

            But I understood you meant that crwths and fiddles were 'historically
            related'. To use a linguistic metaphor, I thought you meant they were
            'genetically' related, and not just 'typologically' related. E.g.,
            Hungarian and Breton may have some strikingly similar properties
            (through their phonology or syntax...) as languages (= they could be
            'typologically related'), and yet they belong to unrelated
            (super-)families of languages - Celtic/Indo-European vs. Finno-Ungrian
            (= they are not 'genetically related').

            That was my point really: fiddles are (probably... it's always wiser
            not to be too adamant...) not descended from crwths, even though it
            might be tempting to think so because of typological convergences.

            Of course they share certain material constituents, even techniques
            (and accoustic properties, some would argue); they are typologically
            related in that sense, and I'm fine with that (although someone might
            want to disagree, and that would be fine too!).
            But then, quite a few other (genetically) unrelated string instruments
            also share constituents (bridges, pins, finger boards...) and even
            techniques. Yet you can't make much of that sort of similarity, can
            you? It could even drive you to argue that rather more different
            instruments are in fact ... related. ;-)

            Patrick


            > Both bowed lyres and fiddles are bowed, yes but also both have
            > tailpieces and bridges and flattish resonators. I made this
            > connection after seeing an Estonnian talharpa player who also did
            > fiddle for 'variety'; I was amazed to see her making the same noises
            > on a standard violin. So I am talking both technology and technique.
            > Sure they are not intimately related but are closer than harp & lyre
            > which was my point.
            >
            > Simon
            >
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