Re: ABH Re: Evolution and Revelation
- In one of my favorite examples for American English pronunciation, southerners are asked to pronounce "oil" an "all". Impossible for them but amusing for northerners. Sincerely, Aris M. Hobeth
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 11, 2013, at 5:50 PM, "nu_cee" <nuchamber@...> wrote:
> Dear Group, Aris, and Holly (msg#71551),
> One mustn’t feel that the bridge of English is a demerit for
> understanding ancient Egyptian and Arabic for though English may NOT
> have the “appearance” of “ancient”, its
> seed, the 26-letter alphabet, was laid in Ancient Egyptian, Hebrew, and
> Arabic times only to evolve into the appearance of our current tree of
> worldwide English users. This is indeed the age of English and its
> 26-letter alphabet. We must be mindful that the other divine alphabets
> are nonetheless useful, but none of them abort a bridge or cross-over to
> understanding the other. On the contrary they collaborate in
> coordination for in-depth understanding of the reality of spirit and
> physical; just as the truth of ancient weights and measures have
> stubbornly remained in the context of the Asian, European, and Eastern
> Asian languages, even as certain current forces have sought to destroy
> our knowledge of ancient familiarity with truth.
> The only caution I have, is that of Christ where he declares in Matthew
> 10:16, “Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves”.
> For those who would hear and see,
> Re: Evolution and Revelation
> Posted By: Holly gmrf (msg# 71551)
> Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:36 pm |
> You are using English to understand ancient Egyptian and Arabic. You
> must study
> the language in its own context. There are 28 letters in the Arabic
> alphabet and
> 10 of them have no English equivalent and that doesn't even include the
> --- In AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Ahobeth@..." <ahobeth@...>
> > Holly, Etymologically didn't the ancients often reverse letters? Ab Ba
> the same Similiar meaning? Likewise Ra, Ar? Arab, Raba, A Ra ba, Arabia,
> silent First A in Arabia?
> > Likewise Ab Ra Ham, AbRam? Sincerely, Aris M. Hobeth
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- Jon S.:
1. “Are youreally trying to claim that the Egyptian term "Khety" for theHittites, had no impact on their Canaanite neighbors?”
Yes. TheHittites were never in Canaan. As toCanaan proper [that is, Canaan south of Lebanon], the Hittites had no contactwith the Canaanites. By sharp contrast,a majority of the ruling princelings in Canaan in the mid-14thcentury BCE were, per the Amarna Letters, Hurrian charioteers.
The most frequently attested Hurrian personal name atthe Late Bronze Age Hurrian province of Nuzi in eastern Syria is Xu-ti-ya,where xu-ti means “to praise” in Hurrian, and -ya is the standard Hurriantheophoric suffix. The expected spellingof the Hurrian personal name Xu-ti-ya in Biblical Hebrew is XTY. The final -Y/yod does double duty, alsomeaning “people” as a standard west Semitic/Hebrew ending. So XTY means “the praise Teshup people”, thatis, the Hurrians.
Chapter 23 of Genesis makes no sense in anyhistorical time period if Abraham is trying to buy Sarah’s burial plot from aHittite, because there never were any Hittite landowners in south-centralCanaan. By sharp contrast, in the mid-14thcentury BCE one would rightly expect that the owner of a plot of land insouth-central Canaan would likely be a Hurrian, that is, one of “the praiseTeshup people” : XTY.
Note that e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g makes perfectsense, on all levels, if XTY is a Hurrian personal name [Xu-ti-ya] cleverlybeing used as a Patriarchal nickname for the Hurrian ruling class in Canaan inthe mid-14th century BCE.
2. Youwrote: “…arose out of the collapse ofthe Anatolian Hittite Empire, they are viewed as Neo-hittite of which one isrecognized as the Philistines/Peleset, probably, in my opinion the biblicalPerizzite.”
PRZY [‘Perizzite’] is another Hurrian-basedPatriarchal nickname for the Hurrians. Pi-ri means “lord” in Hurrian, which is PR in Hebrew. Hebrew zayin/Z here represents the Hurrianformative -zi- or -iz-zi-; a Hurrian doubled consonant always has the first consonant dropped inthe Hebrew rendering, so both forms of that frequent Hurrian element would bespelled zayin/-Z- in Hebrew. Beforeadding the standard Hurrian theophoric suffix -ya [spelled yod/Y in Hebrew],the root of this name is Piri – izzi, spelled PRZ in Hebrew. As is well known, that exact name, Piri-izzi,with that exact spelling, is found at Amarna Letters EA 27: 89, 93 and EA 28:12, where it is the Hurrian name of a Hurrian messenger. That is an e-x-a-c-t linguistic match,letter-for-letter. [By contrast,“Peleset” has L instead of R, and S instead of Z, and has no -Y.]
3. You continued: “In the historical Kelekesh, we find the biblicalGergashite….”
No, that’s another Patriarchal nickname for theHurrians, based on an attested Hurrian personal name. ‘Girgashites’ is GR-G-$-Y : Gera-ge-$e-ya. If we take off the final theophoric suffix -ya, we see that the remaining GR-G-$/gera-ga-$e is an orthographic variant ofthe following Hurrian name attested at Nuzi: Ki-ir-ru-ka-zi. The root of this name is the Hurrian verb “tobe freed”, ki-i-ru, which canalternatively be spelled ge-ra or ge-er. Adding the theophoric suffix, Gera-ge-$e-ya/GRG$-Ymeans: “Being Freed by Teshup”. GRG$ or GRG% (with there being no differencein those two spellings in written Biblical Hebrew) is attested as a personalname at Ugarit (where shin/$ and sin/% are distinguished graphically): grgš,bn grgš and grgs. [Once again, as usual,that is an e-x-a-c-t linguistic match, letter-for-letter, as tothe attestation at Ugarit of this Hurrian name, whereas your proposal has Linstead of R.]
4. Youwrote: “…and the historicalAhhiyawa/Ahuwa/Ekwesh we see the biblical Hivite. All Iron Age Neo-hittitekingdoms.”
No, that’s another Hurrian-based name. Heba [alternatively spelled in English Heva,Hiva, etc..] was the chief Hurrian goddess. Hurrian likely was like Hebrew in that intervocalic bet/B was pronouncedV, so that once again, this is an exact linguistic match. XWY [heth-vav-yod] is a Patriarchal nicknamecalling the Hurrians “the Heva people”. [Since ‘Hivites’ begins with a heth, your suggestions of names thatstart with A or E don’t seem to be close linguistic matches.]
5. I havenoted 7 different Patriarchal nicknames for the Hurrians, each of which is aletter-for-letter exact linguistic match to an attested Hurrian personal name,along with XRY as the expected spelling of their historical name, in thePatriarchal narratives. That makes senseif and only if the Patriarchal narratives were composed, and recorded incuneiform writing, in mid-14th century BCE Canaan, during the fairlyshort time period when Hurrian charioteers dominated the Hurrian ruling class.
Jon, when you see all those many letter-for-letterexact matches to attested Hurrian personal names, that should cause you to askif the Patriarchal narratives were composed, and recorded in cuneiform writing,in the Amarna Age. All of the many historicalevents referenced in the Patriarchal narratives accurately reflect whatactually happened in Years 12-14 of Akhenaten’s 17-year reign, as confirmed bythe Amarna Letters and other non-biblical sources from that era. We know more about those three years thanvirtually any other time period in ancient history, and e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g matches. Including all those many attested Hurrian personal names being cleverlyused as apt Patriarchal nicknames for the Hurrians, who were the ruling class ofCanaan during the Amarna Age.
The reference to the river Euphrates at Genesis 15:18 is confusing and ambiguous, since Syria is not in fact part of the PromisedLand. The intent there was to referencethe people who currently [in the mid-14th century BCE] dominated theentire land from the Upper Euphrates River all the way southwest through Canaanto the border of Egypt: the Hurrians. The divine prophecy is that those people, theHurrians, though until just recently seeming to be all-powerful, would soondisappear, and it would then be the Hebrews who will dominate non-coastalCanaan. 8 of the 10 peoples listed atGenesis 15: 19-21 are Hurrians, and 6 of those 8 names are Hurrian-basedPatriarchal nicknames for the Hurrians. The prophecy is that the Hurrians from the Upper Euphrates River wouldsoon be yesterday’s people, leaving the way open for the Hebrews to come todominate Canaan. That prophecy onlymakes sense in one historical time period: the Amarna Age.
The timing is not what everyone thinks: 350 years throughout various stages of theBronze Age. No, four generations of thefirst Hebrews are depicted as a sophisticated literary device in order tocomment in different ways on the three years when Judaism was born: Years 12-14. The early Hebrew author wants his audience to realize that in fact, heis always talking about Years 12-14, whether it’s Abraham, Isaac, Jacob orJoseph. The Patriarchal Age is Years12-14. Everything fits those three years,especially all the Patriarchal nicknames for the Hurrians.
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