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Re: ABH Weekest Links?? 7 Years of Famine?

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  • Ian Onvlee
    Hi Jim, Let s not exaggerate the importance of certain numbers as if our lives depend on it. I don t put much faith in any kind of numerology, unless it has
    Message 1 of 13 , May 4, 2013
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      Hi Jim,

      Let's not exaggerate the "importance" of certain numbers as if our lives depend on it.

      I don't put much faith in any kind of numerology, unless it has some astronomical basis. So let's keep it real. The Egyptians did not have a week of 7 days. From the very beginning to the very end they had a week of ten days instead. And so too did the Sumerians have a week of five not seven days. Furthermore, only in the continuous Egyptian/Mayan calendar-cycle of 365 days can one discern a pattern of seven years of symbolic increase followed by seven years of symbolic decrease, simply because after a Conjunction or No Moon, seven Egyptian/Mayan years later, on the self-same day the Moon would be Full, and another seven Egyptian years later on the self-same day the Moon would be No Moon again, empty.


      Hereafter the pattern breaks down. This pattern of 7 years of increase plus 7 years of decrease is a fact since the very beginning of this calendar, the earliest records of which are known from the mother of king Khufu of the Fourth Dynasty, but it goes back to at least around 3400-3100 BC in both Egypt and Mexico. The Egyptians had no need to mention it in any written form. It was already written in the heavens and in their calendar since the beginning of time. Nobody wrote about things  everyone already knew. It was business as usual.


      So of course, Den Hasti knew all about the symbolism of the seven fat cows and the seven lean cows symbolizing 7 years of increase and 7 years decrease, namely from the Egyptian calendar of the Moon, the god Thoth, the god of Wisdom. And so did the Pharaoh's of all other Kingdoms. The Egyptians observed two cycles of the Moon in their calendar, an apparently perfect cycle of 25 years, which could last for about 400 years, and yes, you may associate it with your Marduk number 50, although it originated from the Enlil number 50, 1500 years earlier, and a sequence of 2 x 7 = 14 years, the pattern which made it into the Bible through Joseph, after which the 3rd period of 7 years did not work and needed to be restarted after 21 day. The cycle of 25 years was a perfect time to reset the beginning, because every 25 years it was No Moon again. So if we start the series of seven years in the calendar on a No Moon day, the moonlight will increase, and therefore
      the first seven days symbolized increase for seven years until the Moon was Full on the self-same day; the symbolic seven fat cows. As you know, after the Full Moon the Moonlight decreases, and thus the first seven days of decrease symbolized the next seven years, until it was No Moon again on the self-same day.  It was not only the self-same day of the Egyptian calendar but also the self-same day of the Hebrew week of seven days. So yes, this tradition was therefore absolutely significant for both Hebrews and Egyptians from a calendrical and symbolic viewpoint.


      Now Osiris was symbolically the first king of Egypt for 25 years, before Seth and his 72 conspirators lured him into his coffin and threw it in the Nile flood which took him to the Delta and from there to Byblos where he was found grown together with an oak. So this king Osiris actually had simply died and was honorably buried at sea by his brother Seth and 72 helpers, the crew-members of Seth's ship in the North, known now as the Wagon, the Great Bear. 


      Now observe that Jacob-Israel and his family of 70-75 Israelites came to Egypt in the 2nd year of famine. He too had a brother, namely Esau-Edom. Their name resemble those of Osiris and Seth and can even be equated as such. If we follow the calendar-cycle from a No Moon, the first 14 years are precisely the same tradition as the seven fat cows and seven lean cows of Joseph, whom I equate with Den Hasti. When Jacob-Israel arrived with 70-75 Israelite membembers The first seven years had past plus 1 year of famine. He died 17 years. Thus from Year 1 of the seven Fat cows, Jacob-Israel died precisely like Osiris 25 years later at the hands of Seth and his 72 helpers, drowning/burying him at sea in a coffing down the Nile Flood. This also reminds us of Moses, who was set adrift on the Nile Flood but was saved from death.


      Now in the Middle Kingdom, strangely enough, it was the tomb of the First Dynasty 2nd king Djer, which was worshipped as and believed to be the tomb of the living god Osiris himself, and  it so happens that both Djer and Jacob-Israel and his brother were born about the same time, and Even the births of their predecessors Aha Men and Isaac match. Den Hasti too shows a pattern of reign, which closely aligns to Joseph's life pattern (I hope this comes accross well). So it really is more than just a match of names but also of reign lengths and births 20 years before their reigns:

      Recorded reigns of the Predynastic & First Dynasty Date BC Births & lifespans of the Patriarchs Date BC
      Ta, Hat-Hor, king “hand” (Thoth III)
      Thamr, king “Lion” 3777? Terakh born 3797
      Serkh-an, king “Scorpion” 3725? Abraham born to Terakh, 86 y, dies 175 y 3725
      Ro, king “Mouth” 3715? Sarah born, dies 127 3715
      Ka Ap, visits Lod in Southern Palestine 3650? Abraham 75, visits Egypt 3650
      Narmer, conquest and reign of Egypt and Southern Palestine 3650-3640? Abraham 75-85, conquest of Asiatics in Southern Palestine, Sedom & Ahmorah 3650-3640
      Conception of First Apis Bull at Memphis 3641 The Promise of 400 yrs and 4th generation 3640
      Sma, elder son, reign ? 3619? Ismael born, elder son, dies 137 y 3639
      Aha Men, younger son, 60.5 y 3605 Isaac born, younger son, dies 180
      Sarah 90 3625
      First Apis Bull sacrificed in place of Aha 3622 First Ram sacrificed in place of Isaac 3622?
          Sarah dies 3588
      Djer Khent Ity, 55.5 years = Living Osiris 3544.5 Jacob & Esau born, dies 147 years
      First Evening Visible, Tue 4 Jun 3565
      Djet Iterty, 30 years; ousted Sumerians 3489 Laban’s promise in Syria 3488
      Ruben born, Lea’s firstborn 3479
      Joseph born 400 years before Jubilee Year
      Rachel’s firstborn 3473
      Jacob = Israel 3467
      Mother Mernith I & Den Hasti, 23 years 3459 Joseph 17, sold to Egypt as slave 3458
      Daughter Mernith II & Den Hasti joint, 8 ys 3444 Joseph 30, marries Aznath = Mernith II
      Last visible/No Moon, Fri 5 May 3443
      Den Hasti sole, 33 y; invites Palestinians 3436 Paschal Full Moon, 14 Nisan, Fri 3 May,
      End of 7 fat years = lean year 1. 3436
      Jacob 130 y, enters Egypt, 2nd y famine
      300 years before the Exodus; Sat 3 May 3435
      Conjunction, Fri 1 May, End of 7 lean y 3429
      Jacob 147 y, dies; No Moon, Tue 29 Apr 3418
      Adjib (Anedjib) Merpeba, 14.5 3403    
      Semerkhat Iri-neter (Hu), 8.5 years 3388.5    
      Qa’a Shetep (Sen), 33 years 3380 Joseph 110 y, dies 3363
      End of Dynasty I 3347 End of Genesis  
      Khasekhem Besh (Necherophes,Bebti), 28 y
      Khasekhemui (Mesochris, Djadjai), 17.5 y 3150
      3122 Exodus on self-same day: Paschal Full Moon, 14 Nisan, Fri 5 May 3135
      Neterkhat Djoser-It (Thosorthros), 28 years 3104.5 Conquest 3094
          400 y after Joseph: Jubilee count begins 3073/2
      End of Register V 3045 Joshua 110, dies 3023
       

      So here is your perfect answer: the 7 fat + 7 lean years and the 25 years of the Egyptian lunar cycles in the calendar are a tradition in Egypt since the very beginning of time. I give you the perfect correlation between the Egyptian First Dynasty kings and the biblical Patriarchs, based on both the radiocarbon chronology and the records of the Royal Annals (Palermo Stone and Fragments). Hope you're satisfied now.


      Regards,
      Ian Onvlee,
      Netherlands.


      From: "jimstinehart@..." <jimstinehart@...>
      To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, May 3, 2013 7:34 PM
      Subject: Re: ABH Weekest Links?? 7 Years of Famine?



       

      Ian:

      I’m still not quite sure that you understand my point.

      1. In the Old Kingdom, historically there were 9 consecutive low-flood
      years during the time of Djoser’s father.

      2. No literature written during the Old Kingdom refers to “7 years of
      famine”.

      3. The so-called “Famine stele” was not composed until the 1st millennium
      BCE. It claims, about 2,000 years or so after the fact, that there had
      been “7 years of famine” under Djoser in the Old Kingdom.

      4. The turn of phrase “7 years of famine” is coming out of Middle Bronze
      Age southern Mesopotamia, via the Epic of Gilgamesh. Regardless of what the
      historical facts might be in the Old Kingdom, no Egyptian in the Old
      Kingdom would refer to “7 years of famine”. No way. Nor is there any literature
      from the Old Kingdom containing such a blasphemous phrase. No, the first
      appearance on the world stage of the blasphemous phrase “7 years of famine”,
      where the wonderful number 7 is paired with the awful concept of famine, is
      in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Two separate Egyptian traditions of famine, one
      composed late in the Middle Kingdom and the other composed in the 1st
      millennium BCE, picked up that scandalous Babylonian phrase in describing what had
      allegedly happened in the Old Kingdom. The Patriarchal narratives likewise
      picked up that same scandalous phrase and used it regarding the stories of
      Joseph in Egypt.

      5. My assertion is that the phrase “7 years of famine” is so blasphemous
      and scandalous that no one outside of southern Mesopotamia, where Marduk and
      his 50 names were on their way to knocking out the concept of 49 as 7 x 7,
      could have come up with such phrase. That infamous phrase dates to the late
      Middle Bronze Age, and fits in perfectly with my view that the Patriarchal
      narratives were composed in the Late Bronze Age.

      Ian, you don’t seem to realize how unbelievably awkward the phrase “7
      years of famine” is. It’s the counterpart of saying in modern times “666 years
      of unremitting bliss”. There are certain things that in ordinary
      circumstances just cannot be paired with certain numbers. So when one sees such an
      unusual pairing, we should be able to date it and determine exactly how it
      came about. Ian, it’s not a coincidence that at the time the Patriarchal
      narratives were composed, Marduk and his 50 names were on the fast track to
      ultimate supremacy in Kassite Babylonia. Note that Abraham sires Isaac at
      un-doubled age 50 years (being stated age 100 shanah, where the archaic meaning
      of “shanah” was a 6-month period, being the “turning of the year”).

      Though everyone has missed it, in fact the number 7 is awkward in the
      Patriarchal narratives. The two 7 & 7 periods of years are awkward: Jacob doesn’
      t get to marry shapely Rachel as his original main wife after working 7
      years for Laban, and most of the known world suffers through 7 years of famine.
      7 + 7 = 14, and it’s in the 14th year when Abram’s nephew Lot is taken
      captive. 7 x 7 = 49, and Abraham is un-doubled age 49 years when Sodom is
      righteously destroyed. Such a use of the number 7 could not occur in religious
      literature except at a time when Kassite Babylonia was rushing to push
      Marduk and his 50 names to the top of their godly pantheon. As such, it makes
      perfect numerical sense that the initial fulfillment of the Covenant comes
      with Isaac’s long-awaited birth when Abram is age 50 years. That’s 50, as
      the antithesis of 49, while being accompanied by a series of unsubtle jabs at
      7 as well.

      Ian, do you see how a-l-l the numbers in the Patriarchal narratives are
      working perfectly in this time period?

      Jim Stinehart

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    • stinehartjimr
      Ian: 1. Youwrote: “[O]nly in the continuousEgyptian/Mayan calendar-cycle of 365 days can one discern a pattern of sevenyears of symbolic increase followed
      Message 2 of 13 , May 6, 2013
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        Ian:

        1. Youwrote: “[O]nly in the continuousEgyptian/Mayan calendar-cycle of 365 days can one discern a pattern of sevenyears of symbolic increase followed by seven years of symbolic decrease, simplybecause after a Conjunction or No Moon, seven Egyptian/Mayan years later, onthe self-same day the Moon would be Full, and another seven Egyptian yearslater on the self-same day the Moon would be No Moon again, empty.”

        That is n-o-t “a pattern of seven years of symbolicincrease followed by seven years of symbolic decrease”. There is no pattern of the moon becomingfuller and fuller for 7 years. No, allthat’s there is that 7 Egyptian 365-day years after a new moon there will be afull moon.

        2. Youwrote: “The Egyptians had no need tomention it in any written form. It was already written in the heavens and intheir calendar since the beginning of time.”

        Even you yourself admit that the Egyptians nevertalked about 7 years of decrease, much less 7 years of famine. Such a blasphemous concept was not in theEgyptians’ vocabulary until late in the Middle Bronze Age, when they picked upthat daring idea from the Epic of Gilgamesh.

        3. Youwrote: “Den Hasti knew all about thesymbolism of the seven fat cows and the seven lean cows symbolizing 7 years ofincrease and 7 years decrease, namely from the Egyptian calendar of the Moon,the god Thoth, the god of Wisdom. And so did the Pharaoh's of all other Kingdoms.”

        There is no such thing. Nor, as even you would agree, did any pharaohever mention any such thing.

        4. Youwrote: “The Egyptians observed twocycles of the Moon in their calendar, an apparently perfect cycle of 25 years,which could last for about 400 years, and yes, you may associate it with yourMarduk number 50, although it originated from the Enlil number 50, 1500 yearsearlier….”

        No, no, no. Yes, the Egyptians “observed… an apparently perfect cycle of 25 years”. But that has nothing to do with the number 50.

        Note, however, that Joseph’s various ages have adefinite Egyptian ring to them. Josephbecomes Pharaoh’s vizier at age 30 shanah, with the Egyptians celebrating a sedfestival after a pharaoh ruled for 30 years. Joseph is age 25 years (per your mention of the number 25) when heinvites his father Jacob to move all the Hebrews to Egypt. And of course Joseph dies at age 110 shanah,with age 110 years being the ideal age for an Egyptian to imagine living. So Yes, there’s a definite Egyptian feelingto Joseph’s various ages in the text.

        5. You wrote: “So if we start the series of seven years inthe calendar on a No Moon day, the moonlight will increase, and therefore thefirst seven days symbolized increase for seven years until the Moon was Full onthe self-same day; the symbolic seven fat cows. As you know, after the FullMoon the Moonlight decreases, and thus the first seven days of decreasesymbolized the next seven years, until it was No Moon again on the self-sameday.”

        I cannot follow your logic there. The moonlight does not increase for 7years. No, all that you are observing isthat starting from a new moon, 7 Egyptian 365-days later there will be a fullmoon. But there’s no pattern of increasethere, as there will have been 80-some full moons and 80-some new moons in the interim.

        6. Youwrote: “So here is your perfect answer:the 7 fat + 7 lean years and the 25 years of the Egyptian lunar cycles in thecalendar are a tradition in Egypt since the very beginning of time.”

        For the life of me I cannot follow your reasoningthere.

        (a) TheEgyptians n-e-v-e-r talk about “7 fat + 7 lean years” in the OldKingdom. The blasphemous concept of 7years of famine does not appear in world history until late in the Middle BronzeAge, in the Epic of Gilgamesh.

        (b) Yes, theEgyptians recognized “the 25 years of the Egyptian lunar cycles in the calendar”,but that has absolutely nothing to do with the number 50, and hence there’s nocorrelation to Enlil or Marduk. Giventhe mindset of the Epic of Gilgamesh, with its blasphemous, new concept of 7years of famine, the rise of Marduk and his 50 names can be predicted forKassite Babylonia, as 50 is the antithesis of 49 and as such strikes a blow at7 as well (since 49 is 7 x 7).

        Those selfsame numbers -- 7 years of famine and thenumber 50 as being highly auspicious -- show up in spades in the Patriarchalnarratives, well befitting its Late Bronze Age composition date during theheight of Kassite Babylonia.

        But by sharp contrast, Old Kingdom Egypt knows n-o-t-h-i-n-g of the concept of 7 years of famine. That concept originated, rather, in southern Mesopotamia near the end ofthe Middle Bronze Age, per the Epic of Gilgamesh.

        Jim Stinehart









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