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Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll

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  • Ian Onvlee
    Jack, concerning the article on http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3062895,00.html:
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 1, 2012
      Jack,

      concerning the article on http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3062895,00.html:

      <<
      Ethel: Since this is specifically Torah Scroll, can this be the oldest Bible evidence in existence?

      Jack: The Ketef Hinnom silver amulets are not Torah scrolls. They are the priestly blessing.
      >>

      It's certainly an interesting article, and according to this article the two silver scrolls contain passages of both the fourth book of the Torah (thus Numbers) and the so-called Aaronite priestly blessings. Whether or not this is the oldest known evidence of the Bible's existence depends on how the date is arrived at. Is it because of king Josiah's claim that they suddenly "discovered" the scrolls of the Torah somewhere in the Temple at Jerusalem in the 7th century BC? Or did the scientists perform radiocarbon tests on the scrolls? Or is it palaeographic guesswork? I'm certainly not challenging the dating, but I'm still curious. But I'm glad that there is at least some evidence coming from the 7th century BC. We can consider ourselves lucky with this fragmentary find. 

      Regards,
      Ian Onvlee



      ________________________________
      From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
      To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 10:46 PM
      Subject: Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll


       
      The Ketef Hinnom silver amulets are not Torah scrolls. They are the priestly blessing.

      From: ethels
      Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 12:50 PM
      To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll

      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3062895,00.html

      Any one have any more information about this. The museum was closed last year due to maintenance costs.

      Since this is specifically Torah Scroll, can this be the oldest Bible evidence in existence?

      -ethel jks

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ian Onvlee
      Jack, Well said. I can only agree. I too would not rule out the possibility that the benediction on the silver scrolls (as the article calls these items) may
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 1, 2012
        Jack,

        Well said. I can only agree. I too would not rule out the possibility that the benediction on the silver scrolls (as the article calls these items) may just as well have predated the eventual composition of the Pentateuch as we have it now. However, we just don't know enough to rule out anything.

        Regards,
        Ian onvlee
        Den Haag, Netherlands.



        ________________________________
        From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
        To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 10:51 PM
        Subject: Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll


         
        Hi Ethel.

        Pressed “send” too quickly on last response.

        The silver amulets, because of their provenance, prove ONLY that this
        benediction, in various forms (the amulets have a 10 word benediction rather
        then the 15 word benediction of Numbers) was used in the 7th century BCE.
        They do NOT prove that the Biblical text pre-dates or dates to the time of
        the amulets. It would be understandable and expected for a benediction
        commonly used in Israelite society to be incorporated in the Pentateuch
        whether the text dates to the 6th century BCE (my position) or later.
        I lean toward the Ketef Hinnom amulets predating the composition of
        the Pentateuch because no other clearly Pentateuchal epigraphy has
        yet been found in Iron II.
        Given this is in a form more reminiscent of Psalms 67:2, it appears that this
        blessing may have had several traditions suggesting an oral source.
        I don't think it can be said with certainty that this is the oldest Biblical quote.

        Jack

        From: ethels
        Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 12:50 PM
        To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll

        http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3062895,00.html

        Any one have any more information about this. The museum was closed last year due to maintenance costs.

        Since this is specifically Torah Scroll, can this be the oldest Bible evidence in existence?

        -ethel jks

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Attila Csanyi
        Those are two small (0.9 inch X 3.9 inch) amulets dating from the late seventh century BC.  Each amulet contained a scroll or rolled-up sheet of silver which,
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 1, 2012
          Those are two small (0.9 inch X 3.9 inch) amulets dating from the late seventh century BC. 
          Each amulet contained a scroll or rolled-up sheet of silver which, when unrolled, revealed the benediction: 
          May Yahweh bless you and keep you;
          May Yahweh cause his face to shine upon you and grant you Peace.




          ________________________________
          From: ethels <macnietspingal@...>
          To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 11:50 AM
          Subject: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll


           
          http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3062895,00.html

          Any one have any more information about this. The museum was closed last year due to maintenance costs.

          Since this is specifically Torah Scroll, can this be the oldest Bible evidence in existence?

          -ethel jks




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ian Onvlee
          Attila, So it doesn t prove much of Bible content at all as the article implies, but it does at least prove the name Yahweh to be common in the late 7th
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 1, 2012
            Attila,

            So it doesn't prove much of Bible content at all as the article implies, but it does at least prove the name Yahweh to be common in the late 7th century BC. Well, ok then. Not much to write home about.. Business as usual :).

            Regards,
            Ian



            ________________________________
            From: Attila Csanyi <cosmogenesnm@...>
            To: "AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com" <AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 7:50 PM
            Subject: Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll


             
            Those are two small (0.9 inch X 3.9 inch) amulets dating from the late seventh century BC. 
            Each amulet contained a scroll or rolled-up sheet of silver which, when unrolled, revealed the benediction: 
            May Yahweh bless you and keep you;
            May Yahweh cause his face to shine upon you and grant you Peace.

            ________________________________
            From: ethels <macnietspingal@...>
            To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 11:50 AM
            Subject: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll


             
            http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3062895,00.html

            Any one have any more information about this. The museum was closed last year due to maintenance costs.

            Since this is specifically Torah Scroll, can this be the oldest Bible evidence in existence?

            -ethel jks

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Attila Csanyi
            From the words of the blessing on the amulet it looks like the blessing may have originated from the Aton Sun cult of Akhenaton,  and in fact it refers to the
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 1, 2012
              From the words of the blessing on the amulet it looks like the blessing may have originated from the Aton Sun cult of Akhenaton, 
              and in fact it refers to the Sun:

              May ____ bless you and keep you.
              May ____ cause his face to shine upon you and grant you peace.

              More complete is the version in Numbers 6:
              May ___ bless you and protect you; 
              May ___ make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; 
              May ___ lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace.



              ________________________________
              From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
              To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 2:51 PM
              Subject: Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll


               
              Hi Ethel.

              Pressed “send” too quickly on last response.

              The silver amulets, because of their provenance, prove ONLY that this
              benediction, in various forms (the amulets have a 10 word benediction rather
              then the 15 word benediction of Numbers) was used in the 7th century BCE.
              They do NOT prove that the Biblical text pre-dates or dates to the time of
              the amulets. It would be understandable and expected for a benediction
              commonly used in Israelite society to be incorporated in the Pentateuch
              whether the text dates to the 6th century BCE (my position) or later.
              I lean toward the Ketef Hinnom amulets predating the composition of
              the Pentateuch because no other clearly Pentateuchal epigraphy has
              yet been found in Iron II.
              Given this is in a form more reminiscent of Psalms 67:2, it appears that this
              blessing may have had several traditions suggesting an oral source.
              I don't think it can be said with certainty that this is the oldest Biblical quote.

              Jack

              From: ethels
              Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 12:50 PM
              To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll

              http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3062895,00.html

              Any one have any more information about this. The museum was closed last year due to maintenance costs.

              Since this is specifically Torah Scroll, can this be the oldest Bible evidence in existence?

              -ethel jks

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jack Kilmon
              The Aten’s face shining is incorporated in Amarnan epigraphy but that is universal. If you know a Middle Egyptian use of this same blessing, please give the
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 2, 2012
                The Aten’s face shining is incorporated in Amarnan epigraphy but that is universal. If you know a Middle Egyptian use of this same blessing, please give the inscription number or source. I also don’t know what the “May_____...” means.

                Jack

                From: Attila Csanyi
                Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 9:06 PM
                To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll


                From the words of the blessing on the amulet it looks like the blessing may have originated from the Aton Sun cult of Akhenaton,
                and in fact it refers to the Sun:

                May ____ bless you and keep you.
                May ____ cause his face to shine upon you and grant you peace.

                More complete is the version in Numbers 6:
                May ___ bless you and protect you;
                May ___ make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
                May ___ lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace.

                ________________________________
                From: Jack Kilmon <mailto:jkilmon%40historian.net>
                To: mailto:AncientBibleHistory%40yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 2:51 PM
                Subject: Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll



                Hi Ethel.

                Pressed “send” too quickly on last response.

                The silver amulets, because of their provenance, prove ONLY that this
                benediction, in various forms (the amulets have a 10 word benediction rather
                then the 15 word benediction of Numbers) was used in the 7th century BCE.
                They do NOT prove that the Biblical text pre-dates or dates to the time of
                the amulets. It would be understandable and expected for a benediction
                commonly used in Israelite society to be incorporated in the Pentateuch
                whether the text dates to the 6th century BCE (my position) or later.
                I lean toward the Ketef Hinnom amulets predating the composition of
                the Pentateuch because no other clearly Pentateuchal epigraphy has
                yet been found in Iron II.
                Given this is in a form more reminiscent of Psalms 67:2, it appears that this
                blessing may have had several traditions suggesting an oral source.
                I don't think it can be said with certainty that this is the oldest Biblical quote.

                Jack

                From: ethels
                Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 12:50 PM
                To: mailto:AncientBibleHistory%40yahoogroups.com
                Subject: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll

                http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3062895,00.html

                Any one have any more information about this. The museum was closed last year due to maintenance costs.

                Since this is specifically Torah Scroll, can this be the oldest Bible evidence in existence?

                -ethel jks

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Richard Abbott
                Jack, Attila and all, actually there is an Egyptian First Intermediate Period analogue to the Priestly Blessing, classified as a Letter to the Dead and found
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 2, 2012
                  Jack, Attila and all,

                  actually there is an Egyptian First Intermediate Period analogue to the Priestly Blessing, classified as a 'Letter to the Dead' and found in a tomb. The translated text reads:

                  The Great One shall praise you
                  The face of the Great God will be gracious over you
                  He will give you pure bread with his two hands

                  The original Egyptian (just like the original Hebrew) has lines of 3, 5 and 7 words, and both progress from the general to the particular. Both, of course, are found in tomb contexts (counting Ketef Hinnom). The Egyptian has one verb per line, the Hebrew has two, but in terms of function and form they are remarkably alike.

                  Now, the Egyptian one dates from before 2000 BCE and I am not suggesting direct derivation. However, it could be that this kind of structuring was a recognised form for such blessings, of which we have two examples from quite widely spaced times.

                  A more complete write-up can be found in SR. Keller 'An Egyptian Analogue to the Priestly Blessing', pp338-345 in 'Boundaries of the Ancient Near Eastern World', ed Lubetski, Gottlieb and Keller.

                  All the best,

                  Richard

                  'In a Milk and Honeyed Land'
                  http://www.kephrath.com

                  --- In AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Kilmon" <jkilmon@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The Aten’s face shining is incorporated in Amarnan epigraphy but that is universal. If you know a Middle Egyptian use of this same blessing, please give the inscription number or source. I also don’t know what the “May_____...” means.
                  >
                  > Jack
                  >
                  > From: Attila Csanyi
                  > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 9:06 PM
                  > To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll
                  >
                  >
                  > From the words of the blessing on the amulet it looks like the blessing may have originated from the Aton Sun cult of Akhenaton,
                  > and in fact it refers to the Sun:
                  >
                  > May ____ bless you and keep you.
                  > May ____ cause his face to shine upon you and grant you peace.
                  >
                  > More complete is the version in Numbers 6:
                  > May ___ bless you and protect you;
                  > May ___ make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
                  > May ___ lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace.
                  >
                  > _____
                • Ethel Jean (Kowan) Saltz
                  With respect to the S.Keller article. It’s online. Thanks Richard.
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 2, 2012
                    With respect to the S.Keller article. It�s online. Thanks Richard. http://books.google.com/books?id=dO4rbfA_WVIC&pg=PA338&lpg=PA338&dq=keller+priestly+blessing&source=bl&ots=tDGkZM-yEm&sig=FuAjIDlpEkFLynEbtfqED6RNAbs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=S-YaUMbrBYL40gHDtICIDQ&ved=0CEgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=keller%20priestly%20blessing&f=false

                    Is there any connection also with Persian Zoroaster? Could they also have been influenced by the Amarna �cult� independently?

                    -ethel jks


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ian Onvlee
                    Richard, Very interesting. And I agree, we should be careful not to jump to conclusions. It concerns only a general form of presenting a few lines of
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 2, 2012
                      Richard,

                      Very interesting. And I agree, we should be careful not to jump to conclusions. It concerns only a general form of presenting a few lines of blessings, which may have been a custom for two or more millennia. Nevertheless, it gives hope of finding more literary traces.

                      Regards,
                      Ian





                      ________________________________
                      From: Richard Abbott <richard_abbott@...>
                      To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 8:15 PM
                      Subject: ABH Re: How Old is the Torah Scroll


                       
                      Jack, Attila and all,

                      actually there is an Egyptian First Intermediate Period analogue to the Priestly Blessing, classified as a 'Letter to the Dead' and found in a tomb. The translated text reads:

                      The Great One shall praise you
                      The face of the Great God will be gracious over you
                      He will give you pure bread with his two hands

                      The original Egyptian (just like the original Hebrew) has lines of 3, 5 and 7 words, and both progress from the general to the particular. Both, of course, are found in tomb contexts (counting Ketef Hinnom). The Egyptian has one verb per line, the Hebrew has two, but in terms of function and form they are remarkably alike.

                      Now, the Egyptian one dates from before 2000 BCE and I am not suggesting direct derivation. However, it could be that this kind of structuring was a recognised form for such blessings, of which we have two examples from quite widely spaced times.

                      A more complete write-up can be found in SR. Keller 'An Egyptian Analogue to the Priestly Blessing', pp338-345 in 'Boundaries of the Ancient Near Eastern World', ed Lubetski, Gottlieb and Keller.

                      All the best,

                      Richard

                      'In a Milk and Honeyed Land'
                      http://www.kephrath.com

                      --- In AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Kilmon" <jkilmon@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The Aten’s face shining is incorporated in Amarnan epigraphy but that is universal. If you know a Middle Egyptian use of this same blessing, please give the inscription number or source. I also don’t know what the “May_____...” means.
                      >
                      > Jack
                      >
                      > From: Attila Csanyi
                      > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 9:06 PM
                      > To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll
                      >
                      >
                      > From the words of the blessing on the amulet it looks like the blessing may have originated from the Aton Sun cult of Akhenaton,
                      > and in fact it refers to the Sun:
                      >
                      > May ____ bless you and keep you.
                      > May ____ cause his face to shine upon you and grant you peace.
                      >
                      > More complete is the version in Numbers 6:
                      > May ___ bless you and protect you;
                      > May ___ make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
                      > May ___ lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace.
                      >
                      > _____




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Attila Csanyi
                      Just on the basis of the solar imagery I had concluded it must reflect an Egyptian original referring to the Sun.Amazingly, the Hebrew text appears even more
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 3, 2012
                        Just on the basis of the solar imagery I had concluded it must reflect an Egyptian original referring to
                        the Sun.Amazingly, the Hebrew text appears even more solar than the Egyptian version given in the
                        comparison. My guess is the Egyptian blessing may have been expanded with the solar images, i.e.
                        "make His face shine upon you" and "lift up his face to you", during the Akhenaton period and
                        the referent may have been the Sun god Aton, which was simply replaced with YHWH in the
                        Hebrew.
                        As for Zoroastrianism, it made a strong influence on the Yahwists following the return from exile, and 
                        the Judaism that developed after that is a kind of Neo-Zoroastrianism with Yaheh or rather "The Lord"
                        corresponding to Ahura Mazda.

                        AC



                        ________________________________
                        From: Ethel Jean (Kowan) Saltz <macnietspingal@...>
                        To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 2:51 PM
                        Subject: ABH Re: How Old is the Torah Scroll

                        With respect to the S.Keller article. It’s online. Thanks Richard. http://books.google.com/books?id=dO4rbfA_WVIC&pg=PA338&lpg=PA338&dq=keller+priestly+blessing&source=bl&ots=tDGkZM-yEm&sig=FuAjIDlpEkFLynEbtfqED6RNAbs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=S-YaUMbrBYL40gHDtICIDQ&ved=0CEgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=keller%20priestly%20blessing&f=false

                        Is there any connection also with Persian Zoroaster?  Could they also have been influenced by the Amarna “cult” independently?

                        -ethel jks


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Attila Csanyi
                        May _____ simply means fill in the blank with the name of your god. E.g. May Aton bless you and keep you, or May Ahura Mazda bless you and keep you, etc.,
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 3, 2012
                          "May _____" simply means fill in the blank with the name of your god.
                          E.g. May Aton bless you and keep you, or May Ahura Mazda bless you and keep you, etc., etc.
                          But no, I am not aware of any inscription other than the usual one cited by Keller and others, which
                          is structurally similar but lacks the solar feature of the Hebrew. 
                          I am merely suspecting there may have been a more Aton cult related version, from which the Hebrew blessing was modified.


                          ________________________________
                          From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
                          To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 11:15 AM
                          Subject: Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll


                           
                          The Aten’s face shining is incorporated in Amarnan epigraphy but that is universal. If you know a Middle Egyptian use of this same blessing, please give the inscription number or source. I also don’t know what the “May_____...” means.

                          Jack

                          From: Attila Csanyi
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 9:06 PM
                          To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll

                          From the words of the blessing on the amulet it looks like the blessing may have originated from the Aton Sun cult of Akhenaton,
                          and in fact it refers to the Sun:

                          May ____ bless you and keep you.
                          May ____ cause his face to shine upon you and grant you peace.

                          More complete is the version in Numbers 6:
                          May ___ bless you and protect you;
                          May ___ make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
                          May ___ lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace.

                          ________________________________
                          From: Jack Kilmon <mailto:jkilmon%40historian.net>
                          To: mailto:AncientBibleHistory%40yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 2:51 PM
                          Subject: Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll

                          Hi Ethel.

                          Pressed “send” too quickly on last response.

                          The silver amulets, because of their provenance, prove ONLY that this
                          benediction, in various forms (the amulets have a 10 word benediction rather
                          then the 15 word benediction of Numbers) was used in the 7th century BCE.
                          They do NOT prove that the Biblical text pre-dates or dates to the time of
                          the amulets. It would be understandable and expected for a benediction
                          commonly used in Israelite society to be incorporated in the Pentateuch
                          whether the text dates to the 6th century BCE (my position) or later.
                          I lean toward the Ketef Hinnom amulets predating the composition of
                          the Pentateuch because no other clearly Pentateuchal epigraphy has
                          yet been found in Iron II.
                          Given this is in a form more reminiscent of Psalms 67:2, it appears that this
                          blessing may have had several traditions suggesting an oral source.
                          I don't think it can be said with certainty that this is the oldest Biblical quote.

                          Jack

                          From: ethels
                          Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 12:50 PM
                          To: mailto:AncientBibleHistory%40yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll

                          http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3062895,00.html

                          Any one have any more information about this. The museum was closed last year due to maintenance costs.

                          Since this is specifically Torah Scroll, can this be the oldest Bible evidence in existence?

                          -ethel jks

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Attila Csanyi
                          BRAVO!  That strongly supports if not directly confirms what I have concluded solely on the basis of the solar image implied by the blessing . I must follow
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 4, 2012
                            BRAVO! 
                            That strongly supports if not directly confirms what I have concluded solely on the basis of the solar
                            image implied by the "blessing". I must follow up with reading Keller.
                            Thanks for posting it.

                            Attila

                            ________________________________
                            From: Richard Abbott <richard_abbott@...>
                            To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:15 PM
                            Subject: ABH Re: How Old is the Torah Scroll


                             
                            Jack, Attila and all,

                            actually there is an Egyptian First Intermediate Period analogue to the Priestly Blessing, classified as a 'Letter to the Dead' and found in a tomb. The translated text reads:

                            The Great One shall praise you
                            The face of the Great God will be gracious over you
                            He will give you pure bread with his two hands

                            The original Egyptian (just like the original Hebrew) has lines of 3, 5 and 7 words, and both progress from the general to the particular. Both, of course, are found in tomb contexts (counting Ketef Hinnom). The Egyptian has one verb per line, the Hebrew has two, but in terms of function and form they are remarkably alike.

                            Now, the Egyptian one dates from before 2000 BCE and I am not suggesting direct derivation. However, it could be that this kind of structuring was a recognised form for such blessings, of which we have two examples from quite widely spaced times.

                            A more complete write-up can be found in SR. Keller 'An Egyptian Analogue to the Priestly Blessing', pp338-345 in 'Boundaries of the Ancient Near Eastern World', ed Lubetski, Gottlieb and Keller.

                            All the best,

                            Richard

                            'In a Milk and Honeyed Land'
                            http://www.kephrath.com

                            --- In mailto:AncientBibleHistory%40yahoogroups.com, "Jack Kilmon" <jkilmon@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > The Aten’s face shining is incorporated in Amarnan epigraphy but that is universal. If you know a Middle Egyptian use of this same blessing, please give the inscription number or source. I also don’t know what the “May_____...” means.
                            >
                            > Jack
                            >
                            > From: Attila Csanyi
                            > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 9:06 PM
                            > To: mailto:AncientBibleHistory%40yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: ABH How Old is the Torah Scroll
                            >
                            >
                            > From the words of the blessing on the amulet it looks like the blessing may have originated from the Aton Sun cult of Akhenaton,
                            > and in fact it refers to the Sun:
                            >
                            > May ____ bless you and keep you.
                            > May ____ cause his face to shine upon you and grant you peace.
                            >
                            > More complete is the version in Numbers 6:
                            > May ___ bless you and protect you;
                            > May ___ make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
                            > May ___ lift up His countenance upon you, and give you peace.
                            >
                            > _____




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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