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2Aris on pagans

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  • aris hobeth
    I don t understand where the line is on pagan concepts? Is the flood a pagan myth? Because the Hebrews were in Egypt must any pagan Egyptian words found in
    Message 1 of 90 , May 1, 2011
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      I don't understand where the line is on pagan concepts? Is the flood a pagan myth? Because the "Hebrews" were in Egypt must any pagan Egyptian words found in the OT be ignored?
      Jesus didnt have a problem with the "pagan" Roman centurian's faith. Jesus did not require the uncircumcised man to get baptized before getting his servant cured by Jesus. Or even after the cure, Jesus didnt require any renouncing of the "unworthy" soldier's pagan Roman
       mythical gods. I read that Jesus was a little more relaxed about "beliefs" but rather looked into the hearts for love. There is no arguement about love. Beliefs seem to cause a few problems with those who look for problems. Those who "know" (love) have no need for belief.  Sincerely, Aris M. Hobeth

      --- On Tue, 4/26/11, Luís Martini <luis.literatura@...> wrote:


      From: Luís Martini <luis.literatura@...>
      Subject: RE: ABH Aris on Abram
      To: ancientbiblehistory@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011, 8:18 PM



      I have liked this discussing. But we never forget that biblical narratives sets a division between thoses who workship the only one God and the pagans. Therefore a biblical name must be understood without the influences of pagans concepts.

      Luís Martini





      > To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
      > From: jimstinehart@...
      > Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:45:34 -0400
      > Subject: Re: ABH Aris on Abram
      >
      >
      > Aris M. Hobeth wrote: “Ab is the Egyptian word for father. Ram the god Ra.
      > Abram means father soul/god. When Abraham was to kill his son, a ram in a
      > bush appeared to substitute for the sacrifice.”
      >
      > 1. The Egyptians used a ram’s head to symbolize the god Amen. Though
      > Amenhotep III’s name honored the god Amen and he had built a great temple at
      > Thebes for Amen, nevertheless in the end he sacrificed the ram, that is, Amen,
      > and instead chose as his rightful successor his Amen-hating younger son
      > Akhenaten. Abraham likewise sacrificed a ram and chose as his rightful
      > successor his younger son Isaac. That resonates in Year 15, when many people in
      > Egypt were muttering that Amenhotep III had chosen the wrong son of his, by the
      > wrong birth mother, as his successor.
      >
      > 2. If the interior he/H in ’BRHM [“Abraham”] is viewed as being a
      > divider, then there could be a secondary reference to Ra in that name. ’B + R-
      > + -M. If in both cases an ayin is implied, then we have ’B + R‘ + ‘M:
      > “father, (by grace of) Ra [or the divine], of a multitude”. Ab means “
      > father” in west Semitic, Ra in Egyptian means either “Ra” or “the divine”,
      > and am means “multitude” in west Semitic. (“Ra” could have a generalized
      > meaning of “the divine”, as in the pharaonic title “Sa-Ra”, which meant
      > that Pharaoh had been chosen by the divine, not necessarily that Pharaoh was
      > devoted to the sun god Ra.) As a secondary meaning of the divinely-given name
      > “Abraham”, the above meaning resonates with Year 15, when the question was
      > whether Akhenaten should persevere in his semi-monotheistic ways while he
      > desperately sought a proper male heir.
      >
      > Jim Stinehart
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
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    • jimstinehart@aol.com
      Rod: You wrote: “Can I be so bold as to ask what the calculation of the area of a circle [pi] has really to do with the patriarch literature?” If the
      Message 90 of 90 , May 8, 2011
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        Rod:

        You wrote: “Can I be so bold as to ask what the calculation of the area of a circle [pi] has really to do with the patriarch literature?”

        If the Patriarchal narratives were composed in the 14th century BCE (which is my controversial theory of the case), then we would expect some Hurrian influence, since we know from the Amarna Letters that many cities throughout Canaan were ruled by Hurrian princelings at that time. Conversely, there was virtually no Hurrian presence in Canaan in any other time period, so we would not expect to see Hurrian influence if the Patriarchal narratives were composed in any other time period.

        We see the number 318 at Genesis 14: 14. The number 318 is the quintessential Hurrian number. The Hurrian king of the Hurrian state of Naharim/Mitanni sent 318 Hurrian ladies to Akhenaten’s father, and the Hurrian princeling ruler of Jerusalem, IR-Heba, refers to 318 “porters”/taxpayers in an Amarna Letter.

        The main importance of the number 318 is to recognize that it is a Hurrian number, so that its presence in a text is one indication that the text may date to the mid-14th century BCE.

        In my post that you cited, I asked why 318 was the Hurrian number. One of the reasons, though not the only reason, may be that it was a way that the Hurrians encoded the Babylonian concept of pi, which the Babylonians computed to be about 3 1/8.

        The main excitement about the number 318 at Genesis 14: 14 is that it is one indication that the Patriarchal narratives may have been composed in the mid-14th century BCE, which is just about the only time period when there was strong Hurrian influence in Canaan.

        Although the number 318 is well-attested in the 14th century BCE, to the best of my knowledge the number 318 is not attested in the 1st millennium BCE. That is one factor that goes against the scholarly view that the Patriarchal narratives were composed by multiple authors in the 1st millennium BCE. How could multiple authors in the 1st millennium BCE know so much about what was on the minds of people in Year 15 of Akhenaten’s reign? The Hurrian factor, including the Hurrian number 318, is just one of many, many items in the Patriarchal narratives that are redolent of the world of Year 15, and that were unknown in the 1st millennium BCE.

        Jim Stinehart






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