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Re: ABH Baal/Set/Sutekh - god of the Hyksos "exodus" and the golden calves of Jeroboam

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  • Ian Onvlee
    Hi Louis and all, Jerobeam was only repeating the words in Exodus 32:4-5, when Aaron had cast a golden calf from the jewelleries of the Israelites, and they
    Message 1 of 67 , Dec 1, 2009
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      Hi Louis and all,

      Jerobeam was only repeating the words in Exodus 32:4-5, when Aaron had cast a golden calf from the jewelleries of the Israelites, and they (who?) said:

      'This is your God, Israel, who has led thee out of the land Egypt.'

      Moses was nowhere near. And yes, I too think that this a memory of an older tradition, but nevertheless of the forefathers of the Israelites themselves. The bull was most likely taken from the tradition of the Apis bull, the Egyptian son of God (Ptah), who functioned as a prophet at Memphis. His moves were interpreted as prophecies.

      How Jerobeam came about to speak of two golded calves is another question. It may have been symbolic for the division between Judah and Israel, in the style of the two brothers from the same mother, Osiris and Seth, or also Horus and Seth, in the bible associated with the two main names Elohim and Yahweh for God. Another reason could be that the goddess Hathor and the god Ptah were the mother cow and father bull of Apis, and since Hathor was associated with the goddess Asteroth/Astarte/Ishtar, it would be logical that Ptah and Seth had been equated with Yahweh and El and fused. Since Asteroth has been often viewed as the wife of Yahweh, we can conclude that in the minds of the early Israelites the golden calf was the son of God, similar to the Apis in Egypt. Since Apis was a sacrificial animal, whose soul transferred to the next newborn Apis and in this way lived forever (at least for 3000 years), we may assume that this sacrificial animal became a
      central theme in the Temple of Solomon, where in the holiest of holy, each year a bull was sacrificed to deliver the people, alongside the two goats of the east and west to sooth the wraths of God and Azazel respectively. It's all very old religious symbolism that has been retained up to the present day. In Egypt goats or rams are the sacrificial animal of Osiris, while the bull was once also associated with Seth and the Great Bear. The Cowgoddess Hathor with the Pleiads in the constellation of the Bull rising heliacally in the Spring, and the god Ptah probably with Antares in the opposite constellation Scorpio setting in the West, when at Full Moon the Apis was conceived by a Moonbeam projected towards the Virgin mothercow Hathor.

      Ian Onvlee

      From: louis demarest <LOUISDEMAREST@...>
      To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, November 29, 2009 2:50:49 AM
      Subject: ABH Baal/Set/Sutekh - god of the Hyksos "exodus" and the golden calves of Jeroboam


      One of the more curious, if not baffling, statements
      found in the Tanakh concerns Jeroboam's installation of the
      "two calves [of] gold", placing one golden calf at Bethel and
      the other in Dan. More specifically it's Jeroboam's bold
      announcement to the Israelites of the Northern Kingdom
      found in 1 Kings 12:28.

      "It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods,
      O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt".

      If it was an established tradition among the northern tribes
      that Moses (and Yahweh) had delivered the Israelites
      from captivity in Egypt and the pursuing army of Pharoah,
      then how is it that the Israelites of the Northern Kingdom
      would (apparently) so readily accept this preposterous sham;
      that it wasn't their god Yahweh who delivered Israel out from Egypt
      - but rather, it was Jeroboam's "golden calves" ?

      If the Israelites truly viewed themselves as Yahweh's
      "chosen people", led out of Egypt by Moses and given the
      Torah on Mt Sinai - then how could they so readily submit
      to such a gross betrayal of their 'historical' traditions with
      Moses? How could the "golden calves" of Jeroboam
      replace the Temple? This radical innovation apears to have
      stirred little controversy or outrage in the Northern Kingdom.
      How is that possible?

      I raise this question as a prelude to a related issue:
      Has anyone considered the real possibility that in
      the Northern kingdom there may have been an older -
      pre-biblical "exodus tradition" (flight out of Egypt) that was
      already a familiar theme or tradition? What I have in mind
      is whether or not the earlier Middle Bronze Age "exodus"
      or flight of the Hyksos / Shephard Kings out from Lower
      Egypt into Palestine and Syria - was a familiar theme
      at the time of King Jeroboam - or was the memory of the
      Hyksos Kings by then, long forgotten?

      As the Hyksos worshipped a composite of the semitic deity,
      Baal and the Egyptian god, Set (Seth or Sutekh) it is not out
      of the question that Baal /Seth/Sutukh was regarded as the
      *original god* of this pre-Israelite / pre-Mosiac exodus out
      of Egypt and into Palestine & Syria.
      The association of Baal-Hadad with calves, bulls and the (golden)
      sun is well established. Likewise, many Hyksos images and/or
      inscriptions of Set, Seth or Sutukh - refers to him similiarly, such
      as, "Set, the Bull of Ombos". In the article, "The Winged Reshep",
      by Alan R. Schulman, (1979) the author makes the following

      "The purely Egyptian Set was depicted in Asiatic guise, undoubtedly
      as a result of his equation with his Asiatic counterparts, Baal,
      Teshub, and Hadad, by Hyksos rulers in Egypt during the latter
      part of the Second Intermediate Period, as is so shown on at least
      three New Kingdom monuments."


      If the (biblical) exodus tradition was actually recalling old tribal
      memories and stories, [as some scholars & list members suggest]
      dating back to the Bronze Age expulsion of the Hyksos kings
      from Egypt, then Jeroboam's remark concerning the golden
      calves, "which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt",
      (1 Kings 12:28) might be viewed as a textual witness to this
      earlier "exodus" of the Hyksos rulers who fled out of Egypt - thus
      providing a possible textual link or tension between the biblical
      exodus and the expulsion of the Hyksos Kings from Egypt.

      In addition, this hypothetical link between the Hyksos / Set, Seth,
      Sutehk and Baal might also account for the (odd) commentary of
      Numbers 24:8 and Ex 14:2

      Num 24:8 "God brought them out of Egypt. He hath, as it were,
      the strength of an ox."

      Exodus 14:2 the children of Israel, encamp before Pihahiroth,
      between Migdol and the sea, over against Baalzephon: before it shall
      ye encamp by the sea. [This mountain - Baalzephon - remains unidentified,
      but clearly refers to holy mountain of Baal and thus serves as another
      possible allusion to the expulsion of the Baal worshipping - Hyksos kings]

      best regards,

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • louis demarest
      Hi aj If we actually had a positive identification of the true Mt Sinai some of it would end up on ebay and the rest turned into a war zone or partitioned off
      Message 67 of 67 , Mar 23 5:29 PM
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        Hi aj

        If we actually had a positive identification of the true Mt Sinai some of it would end up on ebay and the rest turned into a war zone or partitioned off to various claimants - like the Temple Mount; which is traditionally linked to Mount Moriah & the binding of Issac, the location of Solomon's Temple and Muhammad's
        ascent to heaven.


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: aj
        To: AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:29 AM
        Subject: Re: ABH "Moses", Mes, Math, Mash, Mountains, meanings, & more

        Hi Louis

        > However, just as the Milky Way was the (Egyptian) 'Nile in the sky' - you can't, or should I say, the vast majority of humanity can't expect to go there any time soon, excepting their imagination.

        The point I'm trying to make is that there's no reason to assume that Sinai is to be viewed mythologically anymore than there's reason to assume that it should be view physically.

        I was struck by your comparison between specific mythological Mashu and general physical Zagros a few days ago, though, and it had me wonder if Sinai shouldn't also be viewed in similar general terms, just as we often view mount Ararat as the range rather than the mountain. This may explain the apparent duplicity of names, Sinai and Horeb, that the former is the range, the latter the mountain.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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