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Re: Avraham-Abrahim

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  • andrej1234au
    Ada ... Given the principles of anthropomorphism, by which deified objects of the natural world take on human traits and appearances (this is what is meant by
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 2, 2007
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      Ada

      > I was thinking it could be Abira, or Abrah, without the "im",
      > althoug it can be abr = wing.
      > I think Abira, or Abyra seems more like an old semitic root,
      > or name.

      Given the principles of anthropomorphism, by which deified objects of
      the natural world take on human traits and appearances (this is what is
      meant by man having been made in God's image), I would argue that
      abr 'wing' is a strong contendor for the origin of the names Abram and
      Abraham.

      The dove is a long time symbol of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit
      represents the reproductive aspect of Godhead. It's little wonder,
      then, that a man who is touted in the OT as the 'father of a great
      multitude' should have as his name the pluralised form of the symbol of
      fecundity.

      aj
    • andrej1234au
      Joe ... Something we ve been through many times on this list. The terminal -ym of nhrym may be a plural, such that `rm-nhrym would mean Aram of the rivers ,
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 2, 2007
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        Joe

        > Don't forget that "-im" does not prove plurality. For example:
        > NAMES:
        >
        > Aram-Naharayim (Judges 3:8 )

        Something we've been through many times on this list.

        The terminal -ym of nhrym may be a plural, such that `rm-nhrym would
        mean 'Aram of the rivers', or it may be a dual, which would
        give 'Aram of the two rivers'. Under the latter, the term nhrym would
        then mean much the same as the greek Mesopotamia, and may in fact be
        the origin of it (that's certainly how the Hebrew was translated in
        the Septuagint).

        > Cushan-Rishatayim (King of Aram-Naharaiym; Judges 3:8 )
        > Elyakim (2 Kings 18:18 )
        > Ephraim (Son of Joseph; Gen 48:5))

        I've suggested in the past that the name Ephraim may be the dualised
        form of the same root from which we get the modern Euphrates, prt 'to
        break forth', such that the name means 'the two Euphrates', ie.
        Eastern and Western, both of which flow either side of the highlands
        of Armenia.

        > Mitsrayim (Son of Ham & Hebrew name of Egypt; Gen 13:10)

        A word which means 'sieges, and is a reference to the many forts
        which protected Egypt's eastern flank.

        > Aklim (climate; Modern Hebrew)
        > Kadim (east, easterly wind; Exod 10:13)
        > Naphtulim (a struggle; Gen 30:
        > Panim (face, front side; Ezek 2:10)
        > Pnim (interior; 1 Kings 6:29)
        > Tsanim (dried slice of bread; Modern Hebrew)
        > Tsohorayim (mid-day; 1 Kings 18:26)

        What I find most interesting is that, whilst some seek to identify
        certain words which end in -ym as plurals, none seem interested in
        doing likewise for those feminine nouns which end in -oth.

        aj
      • andrej1234au
        Greetings Ada wrote ... I m always weary when people suggest that the modern practice of monarchs referring to themselves in the plural is also to be found in
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 2, 2007
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          Greetings

          Ada wrote
          > ... "im" can means "majesty". King Solomon also gave the "im"
          > at the end of names to give them majesty.

          I'm always weary when people suggest that the modern practice of
          monarchs referring to themselves in the plural is also to be found in
          the ancient world. Do we have any evidence of this, or this merely
          retrospective projection?

          aj
        • red buffalo
          AJ I agree with you, Abira or Abrah is the singular name, maybe of a race of beings, like Eloh-im. I think is more plural than majesty as king Solomon stated
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 4, 2007
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            AJ

            I agree with you, Abira or Abrah is the singular name, maybe of a race of beings, like Eloh-im. I think is more plural than "majesty" as king Solomon stated thousands years ago, but it also can be "majesty" though. As father of "great multitudes", it talks more of a plural.

            Ada



            Ady.

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          • red buffalo
            AJ You are right, we don t have any evidence of the im as majesty altough it s stated that King Solomon (supposedly) stated that, maybe it was added later
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 4, 2007
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              AJ

              You are right, we don't have any evidence of the "im" as "majesty" altough it's stated that King Solomon (supposedly) stated that, maybe it was added later by another hands.

              ADA


              Ady.

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            • Richard Abbott
              Hi Ady, actually we do have some evidence from outside the Bible of a plural form being used of a single god, and with singular verbs etc. I agree this is not
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 4, 2007
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                Hi Ady,

                actually we do have some evidence from outside the Bible of a plural
                form being used of a single god, and with singular verbs etc. I agree
                this is not quite the same as a plural of majesty such as the British
                royal family have been known to use, but it is a direct parallel of
                how Biblical Elohim is used.

                The parallel comes from some of the Amarna letters, where the plural
                form of god (as an Akkadian determinative) is applied to the Pharaoh
                over 100 times (and much more rarely with respect to other gods).
                Almost all the instances come from the coastal areas, not the
                highlands. There are a few uses also from Ugarit and elsewhere.

                There is just about enough textual evidence to trace migration of
                this pattern inland and south from the Phoenicia area through the
                valley routes, which would mean that Hebrew use sort of around the
                1000 BCE mark is quite credible.

                All the best,

                Richard
                http://www.oldtestamentstudies.net

                --- In AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com, red buffalo <redbffl@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > AJ
                >
                > You are right, we don't have any evidence of the "im"
                as "majesty" altough it's stated that King Solomon (supposedly)
                stated that, maybe it was added later by another hands.
                >
                > ADA
                >
                >
                > Ady.
                >
              • andrej1234au
                Ada ... I didn t suggest that Hebrew `br denotes a race of beings, merely that it could be used to associate Abram/Abraham with birds. ... That s providing
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 5, 2007
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                  Ada

                  > I agree with you, Abira or Abrah is the singular name,
                  > maybe of a race of beings, like Eloh-im.

                  I didn't suggest that Hebrew `br denotes a race of beings, merely that
                  it could be used to associate Abram/Abraham with birds.

                  > As father of "great multitudes", it talks more of a plural.

                  That's providing that the terminating -ym isn't simply a poetic
                  rendering of Hebrew jm 'people, nation, tribe, community', or a
                  corruption of a cognate word in some other Semitic language.

                  aj
                • red buffalo
                  Hi Richard Thanks a lot for your info, hope the name Elijah, is not a derivation of Eloha, although the first one was a prophet and the other one is the
                  Message 8 of 24 , Nov 6, 2007
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                    Hi Richard

                    Thanks a lot for your info, hope the name Elijah, is not a derivation of Eloha, although the first one was a prophet and the other one is the singular name of G-d.

                    Regards



                    Ady.

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                  • andrej1234au
                    Ady ... It s a theophoric, a name which contains that of a deity. Actually it s a double theophoric, as it contains both `lh and yh. And `lwh is the poetic
                    Message 9 of 24 , Nov 7, 2007
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                      Ady

                      > ... hope the name Elijah, is not a derivation of Eloha,
                      > although the first one was a prophet and the other one
                      > is the singular name of G-d.

                      It's a theophoric, a name which contains that of a deity.

                      Actually it's a double theophoric, as it contains both `lh and yh.

                      And `lwh is the poetic form of `lhym.

                      Personally, I also think that it's the Biblical form of Allah.

                      aj
                    • red buffalo
                      AJ thanks a lot for your info. I knew that Elijah was a prophet, and the other the singular name of Gd, I was wondering if the root Eli, and Elo, could the
                      Message 10 of 24 , Nov 7, 2007
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                        AJ

                        thanks a lot for your info. I knew that Elijah was a prophet, and the other the singular name of Gd, I was wondering if the root Eli, and Elo, could the same thing.

                        thanks
                        Ada

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