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Re: Per Jon - - The Primacy of Judges

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  • driver40386
    ... George. Actually your opening remarks concerned the period of authorship of Genesis, thats the direction I was headed. I know the D.H. has been discussed
    Message 1 of 31 , Aug 1, 2006
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      --- In AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com, "George"
      <historynow2002@...> wrote:
      >
      > Jon,
      >
      > Did we already hammer through the Documentary
      > Hypothesis before? I know I did with at least
      > one person.
      >
      > How would the documentary hypothesis explain why
      > Samuel is devoid of multiple biblical themes?

      George.
      Actually your opening remarks concerned the period of authorship of
      Genesis, thats the direction I was headed. I know the D.H. has been
      discussed before so I was not suggesting a revival of the whole topic.
      What I had in mind was the authorship of Genesis. Take for instance
      the first five verses, Gen. I 1:31 are ascribed to Priestly sources.
      Verses 2, 3 & 4 are largely ascribed to J source, while verse 5 is a
      separate source listing generations.
      According to Friedman these sources were put into writing in the 8-7th
      centuries BCE. I think most D. H. versions tend to agree that there
      were no Biblical 'books' as we have today that predate that era.
      Some suggest a later compilation, possibly thats the direction you
      were headed with your question. There are though some very good
      arguments provided by Hoffmeier concerning Egyptian elements in the
      texts that make a later writing hardly feasible.
      I'm not sure what direction you wish to take with this so I thought we
      might get the D.H. out of the way first.

      Regards, Jon
    • George
      Jon, You comment about the Benjaminites as dwelling in the mountains around Jerusalem. But please note: Jer 6:1 O ye children of Benjamin, gather yourselves
      Message 31 of 31 , Aug 3, 2006
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        Jon,

        You comment about the Benjaminites as dwelling in the
        mountains around Jerusalem.

        But please note:

        Jer 6:1
        "O ye children of Benjamin, gather yourselves to flee out
        of the midst of Jerusalem..."


        Joshua 18:21
        Now the cities of the tribe of the children of Benjamin
        according to their families were....

        Jos 18:25
        ...Gibeon [of the Gibeonites], and Ramah, and Beeroth...

        Jos 18:28
        And Zelah, Eleph, and Jebusi, which [is] Jerusalem, Gibeath, [and]
        Kirjath....

        Jerusalem, also known as Jebusi, belonged to Benjamin.
        Before David took the city away from the Jebusites,
        it belonged to Benjamin (in name only?), and then it
        became the chief inhabitance for so-called Judah-ites.

        The last chapter of Judges describes a massive battle
        against the Benjaminites in the midst of the Jebusites.
        And yet the Benjaminites "possessed" Jerusalem.

        I find the telling of this story in Judges a thinly veiled
        explanation for why there were Benjaminites in Jerusalem...
        or Jebusi in Benjamin.

        I propose that the Gibeonites, the Jebusites and the
        Benjaminites are one in the same people. But I digress.
        We were discussing scenarios of compositional sequence.

        And because I find no helpful connection flowing from
        Joshua to Judges, and from Judges to Samuel, Judges (to me)
        displays an almost irrelevant anchor upon which to base
        chronology.

        You mention scholars who believe the Hebrew were a people
        who came from OUJTSIDE of Canaan. I would agree with that,
        in the following way:

        1) There were people that came from out of Canaan in the
        the ancient days.

        2) Modern scholars call them biblical Hebrew.

        3) Then another wave of immigrants arrived in Canaan...
        they were the Persianized Jews who wrote their own
        history of how they emerged from these Hebrew/Apiru.

        4) The "outsiders" that we consider the Hebrew are the
        newcomers... who gathered the heritage and posterity of
        the true 'Apiru into their book of origins... and have
        confused the issue of who were the Hebrew for a millenia.

        Regards,

        George
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