ABH Re: Geographica Perspectives in the Past (was: Hellbing and the Arslan Tesh)
- --- In AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com, Italo <cucaro@...> wrote:
> At four of the places mentioned on that list in the templeInteresting.
> of Amenophis III were faience plaques found with the name of
> Amenophis III or his wife Teje. Coincidence? At Mycenae both
> his birth- and king-name are written on what appears to've
> been the faience decoration of an entrance - six fragments
> of Egyptian faience were found there, leading some to think
> of an imported "Egyptian room".
Written in what, Linear A, B?
References would be good.
> But the wallpaintings of Avaris are minoan. A bull before aYes, but there is no ethnicity in art. Scholars learned their lesson
> labyrinth (with a Theseus avant la lettre), a bull-leaper, a
> gryphon, rosette decorations, etc. The mother of Ahmose-I
> even held the title "Mistress of the Hau-nebut".
when Philistine Bichrome was found to be locally made. Art was & is
> Here are Keftiu depicted as bringing tribute; an ingot, aAnswer this, "what did a Phoenician look like in this period?
> rhyton, a metal vessel - typical Keftian-work? :
> Can you give an example where Aegean products reach EgyptAre you talking of texts, reliefs or an itinerary?
> via Asiatic traders?
> Where did Egypt get silver? iron?I think "Materials & Industry" by Lucas will provide those answers,
didn't he suggest Iron was sourced in Asiatic countries? and Silver
"may have been" sourced from Mesopotamia, Cyprus & Keftiu.
- I wrote:
> John wrote:I mixed things up, Hittite was indeed used as the diplomatic
>> OK, granted about Diplomatic languages. But the
>> Diplomatic language at the time of the Hittite Empire
>> was Akkadian or Neshili (Hittite) not Luwian.
> Only for the east. For the countries bordering on the
> west was always some form of Luwian used.
language. The Hittites probably communicated with Ahhiyawa
in Hittite. And Hittite was even used between Arzawa and
Egypt (Amarna EA31/32). It is rather as Lingua Franca that
Luwian may've been used, in west Anatolia, not as
international diplomatic language.
>> To argue that we don't know what languages were used inIs there a reference for this?
>> Assuwa is true except that the KKing of Assuwa always
>> addressed the Labarnas of Hattusas in Luwian, not
>> Akkadian or Neshili.
- driver40386 wrote:
> --- In AncientBibleHistory@yahoogroups.com, Italo"fragments of six to nine faience plaques", to be precise.
> <cucaro@...> wrote:
>> At four of the places mentioned on that list in the
>> temple of Amenophis III were faience plaques found with
>> the name of Amenophis III or his wife Teje.
>> Coincidence? At Mycenae both his birth- and king-name
>> are written on what appears to've been the faience
>> decoration of an entrance - six fragments of Egyptian
>> were found there, leading some to think of an importedIn Egyptian hieroglyphs.
>> "Egyptian room".
> Interesting. Written in what, Linear A, B? References
> would be good.
Of the six places in the Aegean where plaques with A.'s
cartouche are found, the following appear on A.'s
topographic list: Knossos, Phaistos, Kydonia and Mykenai.
(ref. Latacz(2001), p.163/4.)
>> But the wallpaintings of Avaris are minoan. A bullSure looks Cretan to me.
>> before a labyrinth (with a Theseus avant la lettre), a
>> bull-leaper, a gryphon, rosette decorations, etc. The
>> mother of Ahmose-I even held the title "Mistress of the
> Yes, but there is no ethnicity in art.
> Scholars learned their lesson when Philistine BichromeWhat about the Trojan grey ware? apparently this was
> was found to be locally made. Art was & is copied.
inferior to the locally produced stuff, yet it is found in
>> Here are Keftiu depicted as bringing tribute; an ingot,They would look like people carrying 'Phoenician' products.
>> a rhyton, a metal vessel - typical Keftian-work? :
> Answer this, "what did a Phoenician look like in this
Would they offer a bull-rhyton as gift?
>> Where did Egypt get silver? iron?Silver was mined at Laurion (at least since the Egyptian
> I think "Materials & Industry" by Lucas will provide
> those answers, didn't he suggest Iron was sourced in
> Asiatic countries? and Silver "may have been" sourced
> from Mesopotamia, Cyprus & Keftiu.
middle kingdom period), but also in west Anatolia.
Iron melting was done on Crete in the EMIII (before 2000BC -
judging from the iron slag used in the floor of a tholos
tomb). The mycenaeans made daggers of iron, they could've
produced Tutankhamon's dagger. The beakers in the gift of
the Tnjw to Tuthmosis III may be of iron.
- Italo asked
> Isn't the oldest mention of Assuwa some time after Labarna?Yes, but Labarna was merely the title of the Hittite king (Like Caesar
or Augustus in Roman history).
> The pre-IE languages of west and south Anatolia, Crete, theItalo, is there any archaeological evidence of the arrival of
> Aegean isles, and Cyprus may have belonged to the same
> group. Eteocretan (linear-A) would then be one of these.
> Pelasgs from Greece (and Tyrsenoi) settled among these
> indigenous peoples on the Anatolian coast as well as on
> Crete, maybe at Crete first - but in any case before the
> Luwians expand to west Anatolia. Or so it _could_ have been,
Tyrrhenian or Pelasgoi from the west in Anatolia? Palmer effecively
showed how Grey Minyan ware pottery was Luwian in origin. Is this what
you refer to?