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72401Re: ABH YHWH ELOHIM

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  • gmrf
    Feb 4, 2014
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      Carpe:

      Neither Elohim nor Yhwh was thought to be incarnated as Jesus. The idea of a human incarnated god was not a part of ancient Middle Eastern religions whose gods were nature based, i.e., animals, plants (esp. trees), mountains, rocks, planets, sun, stars (esp. constellations), moon, sky, storm, fertility, etc. Gods were often represented as human figures or a combination of human + a nature/astral god. These gods were often depicted as acting like human beings with all of the human faults. Human beings were not viewed as deities because they were not immortal. They were often viewed as beings that were created by a particular deity to fulfill a particular role in which the god would be served. Human beings were regarded as slaves of the gods. This idea shows up in Judaism as is especially expressed in Lev 25:55 where YHWH declares:

      "For the Israelites belong to me as slaves (עֲבָדִ֔ים). They are my slaves (עֲבָדַ֣י), whom I brought out of Egypt. I am the Lord your God."

      The word (עֲבָדַ֣) is often translated as servant but it means slave. Servants were slaves in Biblical times as they were often enslaved captives or indentured slaves considered to be fit only for menial tasks.

      The idea of an incarnated (avatar) deity is of Indo-European or Indo-Aryan/Indo-Iranian origin whose particular religions, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism and Greek & Roman theologies, allowed for the deification of human beings as avatars (Krishna) and as beings that were half human and half divine as was the case of Heracles. In Hindu mythology, the Hindu god, Vishnu, incarnated as human beings (Buddha, Rama, Krishna and a dwarf). Indo-Iranians/Aryans known as Persians, Greeks and Romans occupied Palestine from 539 BCE to 390 CE  or about 930 years.

      Jesus lived under Roman rule and the Romans were greatly influenced by the Greeks, who, along with the Romans, had occupied Palestine and greatly influenced the culture of the locals, including their religion. Greeks and Romans were and are essentially Indo-Aryans or of Indo-Europenan origin while Jesus and his fellow Palestinians were Semites. Semites originated in the Arabian Peninsula and eventually occupied Mesopotamia, the Levant and parts of North Africa while Indo-Aryans are thought to have originated in the Indian subcontinent and spread into Asia, Anatolia, parts of the Near East (Mitanni Kingdom) and Europe.

      One of the concepts that greatly influenced philosophical thought on the role of Jesus was the idea of the Logos; an idea expounded upon by the great Jewish Philosopher, Philo of Alexandria. According to Wiki the Logos entered Palestine thru Greek and Jewish Hellenistic influence and ended up as the 'Word' (Logos means word) in the Gospel of John:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos

      The Stoic philosophers identified the term (Logos) with the divine animating principle pervading the Universe.

      Under Hellenistic Judaism, Philo (ca. 20 BC – AD 50) adopted the term into Jewish philosophy. The Gospel of John identifies the Logos, through which all things are made, as divine theos, and further identifies Jesus as the incarnate Logos.

      end quote


      Also, the concept of a Jew dieing for the sake of improving the lot of non Jews (goyim) was anathema to Yahwism as was the concept of vicarious atonement (sacrificing oneself for the sins another). According to Isa 34:2:


      For the indignation of the Lord is upon all the Goyim (הַגּוֹיִ֔ם), and His fury upon all their armies; He hath utterly destroyed them; He hath delivered them to the slaughter.


      And Deut 24:16:


      "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."


      However, the concept of a deity sacrificing himself for the betterment of mankind was an ancient Greek concept. According to Wiki:


      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus


      In Greek mythology, Prometheus./. is a Titan, culture hero, and trickster figure who is credited with the creation of man from clay, and who defies the gods and gives fire to humanity, an act that enabled progress and civilization. Prometheus is known for his intelligence and as a champion of mankind.


      So, Jesus is neither an incarnation of Yhwh nor Elohim. His theological role in the Gospels, as is interpreted by Western Christianity, compares favorably to the Indo-Aryan Titan (primeval deity), Prometheus and to the Stoic concept of the Logos.


      Holly






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