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Re: website of ibterest

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  • ursula_f0wler
    I didn t think you would be doing helmet decoration. I mentioned the decoration issue, because that site has a lot to recommend it, but the helmet decorations
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 11, 2011
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      I didn't think you would be doing helmet decoration. I mentioned the decoration issue, because that site has a lot to recommend it, but the helmet decorations are the first thing seen at the top. So I thought I would mention a caution for the general list. If you do use one, then velcro would help, but I think lacing it through the ventalation slits at least in part might work better than velcro alone which can get pulled apart if it is given enough of a tug or whack. In some kingdoms they really seem to like the helmet covers, but some movies of their YAC combat show kids fighting the helmet covers more than each other. The little combatants seem to use them more than the older ones, perhaps the older kids find they get in the way. If you try it, please tell us about your results. When you find a good looking safe design, others will want to know what you did. We still have not only the YAC Marshal's Handbook to finish, but the YAC Armour Construction Guide to write too. Directions for a decorative helmet cover that stays put would be an excellent addition.

      You are right on the rules for a gorget with either a helm that covers the neck, or adding a neck guard of heavy leather to hockey helmets and metal helms that don't cover the neck. So far I don't know of anyone who has come up with a real spiffy design for the neck guard on a hockey helmet, most of them look blandly utilitarian. A good design for neck guards on hockey helmets would be another great addition for the YAC Armour Construction Guide.

      YIS

      Ursula Fowler




      --- In AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com, Gerack Talmoor <talmoor@...> wrote:
      >
      > The way I read it was it followed the requirements for heavy. Either a gorget in conjunction with a helmet that does not expose the neck or a drape of heavy leather from the helm to protect the neck. I did not mean to imply decoration, I was specifically looking for examples for neck and spine coverage.
      >  
      > I like the decoration type, if it is what I am thinking it is termed a torse and mantle. Usually a twisted or braided band around the brow with a drape down the back 1/3 of the helm. Primarily 13Th to 14Th century as I recall. Of course being 14Th century I am somewhat biased. If you attach Velcro to the helmet and the torse it should keep it from moving to much. It is a pretty cheap way to help put a more period look to the gear and also help encourage the pageantry from an early start. YMMV.
      >  
      > Alasdair
      >
      >
      > May you always be worthy of your dreams.
      >
      > --- On Mon, 1/10/11, ursula_f0wler <solem_atrum@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: ursula_f0wler <solem_atrum@...>
      > Subject: [AnTirYAC] Re: website of ibterest
      > To: AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, January 10, 2011, 10:10 AM
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > Thanks for the interesting site for YAC armour building, it looks like a person who is more a seamstress then an armourer would really benefit from this design. Another plus, it looks very cheap to build.
      >
      > I would avoid doing the helmet decorations that some of the pictures on the top of the website page shows, I've watched a few movies of kids with these decorative helmet covers, and seen the covers get knocked all over and sometimes into the kid's face, then the match must be stopped, so the combatant can adjust the decorative helmet cover. Covering sports logos with duct tape, helps loose the sports logo look without compromising safety.
      >
      > In the YAC rules, hockey helmets are required to have a neck guard, that covers the neck and throat. Neck and throat injuries are pretty serious, so a heavy leather neck guard is needed. The word drape is one that was used in the old rules, and it lead to some helms being given neck guards that weren't heavy enough to improve safety, so there has been a move away from the term drape. The historical terms are caumail and aventail, but personally I've felt odd about using those terms with a modern hockey helmet, so I use neck guard, which at least suggests it should be heavy enough to guard the neck.
      >
      > Hockey helmets can be drilled pretty easily so heavy leather can be secured with rivets or nuts and bolts, and the bottom of the face guard will need some heavy leather pieces hug there too. I have seen heavy jump rings, leather tabs and rivets, and leather lacing all used to attach the leather guard to the face mask. If you buy a couple of broken hockey helmets for parts, the brackets that hold the face mask to the helmet above the eyes would be another great way to attach the leather guard to the face mask.
      >
      > The gorget can be built out of heavy armour weight leather, be sure to remember to line it with 1/4 inch foam, like yoga mat. Also applying a layer of linen or cotton to the inside of the foam will improve the comfort for the combatant, I used spray mount for that. Thora's gorget is just a thick leather band with half circle plates hanging from tabs down in the front and the back, and the buckle is on the side. Foam covers both the inside of the band and the inside of the half circle plates. The half circle plates are roughly 4x4 inches at the widest points. It was a simple pattern that came together in less than an hour.
      >
      > I started a photo album called "armour pictures" in the hope that as people get armour built, they will add pictures to help others in planning and building YAC kits. I added a picture of Thora that shows her simple gorget pretty well.
      >
      > YIS
      >
      > Ursula Fowler
      >
      >
      >
      > .
      >
    • Marguerite
      I can second the endorsement of Horse Friend Armoury, last weekend I just purchased a gorget and ordered two demi-gauntlets at a very reasonable price. But be
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 11, 2011
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        I can second the endorsement of Horse Friend Armoury, last weekend I just purchased a gorget and ordered two demi-gauntlets at a very reasonable price.  But be warned, while he is attending Ursulmas, he will NOT be merchanting.  So if you might want anything, contact him now.

         

         

        Marguerite fitz William, JdL
        Exchequer, Barony of Aquaterra
        Courtier to Their Excellencies, Hauk and Rosamund of Aquaterra 
        Motto: Et Hoc Quoque Transibit
        Or, a natural panther stantant contourney sable, on a chief invected vert, three plates

         

         

         

        From: AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jordan Boswell
        Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 9:32 AM
        To: AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [AnTirYAC] Re: website of ibterest

         

         

        Greetings to All,

        Sorry I have been slacking on this end due to having to many irons in the fire. I realize I have not been able to send out the second part to my email originally posted at the end of last year. But with school starting back up, preparing for Ursulmas and dealing with a number of other SCA issues I have not had the time. I know, too much whining.

        Anyway, I did want to jump into this discussion real quick to thank both Gerack and Ursula for their wonderful contributions regarding this issue and add one myself.

        Below is a link to a gorget pattern which I have used to make a number of them for some of my Dragon fighters.

        http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~serpent/sca/gorget/


        Also, and I hope nobody will be offended by a shameless plug, but there is an An Tir armor maker, Horse Friend Armory, who makes a simple yet effective gorget which is very reasonably priced that works great for younger fighters. He has attended the last two Ursulmas' (see another reason to attend) and I have purchased two of them off him for our Baronial Iron Key. 

        His website is:  www.horsefriendarmoury.com

        I will post again before Ursulmas just to remind you of how wonderful the Event is and to try and address more Kingdom business. Which reminds me, I forgot to post the link for the Lists in my last email, so here goes:

        http://antirlists.org

        Please check it out and if you are not there, either let me know or send your information off to Lists asking them to update your info. I will be having a discussion with one of the List Ministers as Ursulmas concerning this issue.

        YIS

        Lord Jólgeirr Álarson

        YAC Kingdom Deputy

         

        On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 2:26 PM, Gerack Talmoor <talmoor@...> wrote:

         

        The way I read it was it followed the requirements for heavy. Either a gorget in conjunction with a helmet that does not expose the neck or a drape of heavy leather from the helm to protect the neck. I did not mean to imply decoration, I was specifically looking for examples for neck and spine coverage.

         

        I like the decoration type, if it is what I am thinking it is termed a torse and mantle. Usually a twisted or braided band around the brow with a drape down the back 1/3 of the helm. Primarily 13Th to 14Th century as I recall. Of course being 14Th century I am somewhat biased. If you attach Velcro to the helmet and the torse it should keep it from moving to much. It is a pretty cheap way to help put a more period look to the gear and also help encourage the pageantry from an early start. YMMV.

         

        Alasdair



        May you always be worthy of your dreams.

        --- On Mon, 1/10/11, ursula_f0wler <solem_atrum@...> wrote:


        From: ursula_f0wler <solem_atrum@...>
        Subject: [AnTirYAC] Re: website of ibterest
        To: AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, January 10, 2011, 10:10 AM

         

         

        Thanks for the interesting site for YAC armour building, it looks like a person who is more a seamstress then an armourer would really benefit from this design. Another plus, it looks very cheap to build.

        I would avoid doing the helmet decorations that some of the pictures on the top of the website page shows, I've watched a few movies of kids with these decorative helmet covers, and seen the covers get knocked all over and sometimes into the kid's face, then the match must be stopped, so the combatant can adjust the decorative helmet cover. Covering sports logos with duct tape, helps loose the sports logo look without compromising safety.

        In the YAC rules, hockey helmets are required to have a neck guard, that covers the neck and throat. Neck and throat injuries are pretty serious, so a heavy leather neck guard is needed. The word drape is one that was used in the old rules, and it lead to some helms being given neck guards that weren't heavy enough to improve safety, so there has been a move away from the term drape. The historical terms are caumail and aventail, but personally I've felt odd about using those terms with a modern hockey helmet, so I use neck guard, which at least suggests it should be heavy enough to guard the neck.

        Hockey helmets can be drilled pretty easily so heavy leather can be secured with rivets or nuts and bolts, and the bottom of the face guard will need some heavy leather pieces hug there too. I have seen heavy jump rings, leather tabs and rivets, and leather lacing all used to attach the leather guard to the face mask. If you buy a couple of broken hockey helmets for parts, the brackets that hold the face mask to the helmet above the eyes would be another great way to attach the leather guard to the face mask.

        The gorget can be built out of heavy armour weight leather, be sure to remember to line it with 1/4 inch foam, like yoga mat. Also applying a layer of linen or cotton to the inside of the foam will improve the comfort for the combatant, I used spray mount for that. Thora's gorget is just a thick leather band with half circle plates hanging from tabs down in the front and the back, and the buckle is on the side. Foam covers both the inside of the band and the inside of the half circle plates. The half circle plates are roughly 4x4 inches at the widest points. It was a simple pattern that came together in less than an hour.

        I started a photo album called "armour pictures" in the hope that as people get armour built, they will add pictures to help others in planning and building YAC kits. I added a picture of Thora that shows her simple gorget pretty well.

        YIS

        Ursula Fowler

        .

        Error! Filename not specified.

         

         

      • Jordan Boswell
        Marguerite, That is good information since I was planning on stopping by his booth to purchase stuff. Thanks for the update!!! Jólgeirr ... Marguerite, That
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 11, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Marguerite,

          That is good information since I was planning on stopping by his "booth" to purchase stuff. Thanks for the update!!!

          Jólgeirr



          On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Marguerite <M_fitzWIlliam@...> wrote:
           

          I can second the endorsement of Horse Friend Armoury, last weekend I just purchased a gorget and ordered two demi-gauntlets at a very reasonable price.  But be warned, while he is attending Ursulmas, he will NOT be merchanting.  So if you might want anything, contact him now.

           

           

          Marguerite fitz William, JdL
          Exchequer, Barony of Aquaterra
          Courtier to Their Excellencies, Hauk and Rosamund of Aquaterra 
          Motto: Et Hoc Quoque Transibit
          Or, a natural panther stantant contourney sable, on a chief invected vert, three plates

           

           

           

          From: AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jordan Boswell
          Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 9:32 AM
          To: AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [AnTirYAC] Re: website of ibterest

           

           

          Greetings to All,

          Sorry I have been slacking on this end due to having to many irons in the fire. I realize I have not been able to send out the second part to my email originally posted at the end of last year. But with school starting back up, preparing for Ursulmas and dealing with a number of other SCA issues I have not had the time. I know, too much whining.

          Anyway, I did want to jump into this discussion real quick to thank both Gerack and Ursula for their wonderful contributions regarding this issue and add one myself.

          Below is a link to a gorget pattern which I have used to make a number of them for some of my Dragon fighters.

          http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~serpent/sca/gorget/


          Also, and I hope nobody will be offended by a shameless plug, but there is an An Tir armor maker, Horse Friend Armory, who makes a simple yet effective gorget which is very reasonably priced that works great for younger fighters. He has attended the last two Ursulmas' (see another reason to attend) and I have purchased two of them off him for our Baronial Iron Key. 

          His website is:  www.horsefriendarmoury.com

          I will post again before Ursulmas just to remind you of how wonderful the Event is and to try and address more Kingdom business. Which reminds me, I forgot to post the link for the Lists in my last email, so here goes:

          http://antirlists.org

          Please check it out and if you are not there, either let me know or send your information off to Lists asking them to update your info. I will be having a discussion with one of the List Ministers as Ursulmas concerning this issue.

          YIS

          Lord Jólgeirr Álarson

          YAC Kingdom Deputy

           

          On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 2:26 PM, Gerack Talmoor <talmoor@...> wrote:

           

          The way I read it was it followed the requirements for heavy. Either a gorget in conjunction with a helmet that does not expose the neck or a drape of heavy leather from the helm to protect the neck. I did not mean to imply decoration, I was specifically looking for examples for neck and spine coverage.

           

          I like the decoration type, if it is what I am thinking it is termed a torse and mantle. Usually a twisted or braided band around the brow with a drape down the back 1/3 of the helm. Primarily 13Th to 14Th century as I recall. Of course being 14Th century I am somewhat biased. If you attach Velcro to the helmet and the torse it should keep it from moving to much. It is a pretty cheap way to help put a more period look to the gear and also help encourage the pageantry from an early start. YMMV.

           

          Alasdair



          May you always be worthy of your dreams.

          --- On Mon, 1/10/11, ursula_f0wler <solem_atrum@...> wrote:


          From: ursula_f0wler <solem_atrum@...>
          Subject: [AnTirYAC] Re: website of ibterest
          To: AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, January 10, 2011, 10:10 AM

           

           

          Thanks for the interesting site for YAC armour building, it looks like a person who is more a seamstress then an armourer would really benefit from this design. Another plus, it looks very cheap to build.

          I would avoid doing the helmet decorations that some of the pictures on the top of the website page shows, I've watched a few movies of kids with these decorative helmet covers, and seen the covers get knocked all over and sometimes into the kid's face, then the match must be stopped, so the combatant can adjust the decorative helmet cover. Covering sports logos with duct tape, helps loose the sports logo look without compromising safety.

          In the YAC rules, hockey helmets are required to have a neck guard, that covers the neck and throat. Neck and throat injuries are pretty serious, so a heavy leather neck guard is needed. The word drape is one that was used in the old rules, and it lead to some helms being given neck guards that weren't heavy enough to improve safety, so there has been a move away from the term drape. The historical terms are caumail and aventail, but personally I've felt odd about using those terms with a modern hockey helmet, so I use neck guard, which at least suggests it should be heavy enough to guard the neck.

          Hockey helmets can be drilled pretty easily so heavy leather can be secured with rivets or nuts and bolts, and the bottom of the face guard will need some heavy leather pieces hug there too. I have seen heavy jump rings, leather tabs and rivets, and leather lacing all used to attach the leather guard to the face mask. If you buy a couple of broken hockey helmets for parts, the brackets that hold the face mask to the helmet above the eyes would be another great way to attach the leather guard to the face mask.

          The gorget can be built out of heavy armour weight leather, be sure to remember to line it with 1/4 inch foam, like yoga mat. Also applying a layer of linen or cotton to the inside of the foam will improve the comfort for the combatant, I used spray mount for that. Thora's gorget is just a thick leather band with half circle plates hanging from tabs down in the front and the back, and the buckle is on the side. Foam covers both the inside of the band and the inside of the half circle plates. The half circle plates are roughly 4x4 inches at the widest points. It was a simple pattern that came together in less than an hour.

          I started a photo album called "armour pictures" in the hope that as people get armour built, they will add pictures to help others in planning and building YAC kits. I added a picture of Thora that shows her simple gorget pretty well.

          YIS

          Ursula Fowler

          .

          Error! Filename not specified.

           

           


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