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RE: [AnTirYAC] Re: YAC device...

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  • hallgrim@greathall.org
    Hi All: I had an email exchange with Sir Daniel. Essentially, it s a go ahead for the group to design a YAC marshallate badge that we like. We can send it to
    Message 1 of 50 , Jan 1, 2009
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      Hi All:

       

      I had an email exchange with Sir Daniel.  Essentially, it’s a go ahead for the group to design a YAC marshallate badge that we like.  We can send it to him and then I think he will take it from there. 

       

      We also talked about having the participants be a part of designing their own badges.  Plus, the possibility of the Kingdom providing badges for the participants.

       

      So, should we have the kids submit designs, or should we submit designs for the kids to pick from, etc?  What are folks’s thoughts?

       

      Hallgrim

      KDYC 

       

      From: AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean Colbert
      Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 3:16 PM
      To: AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [AnTirYAC] Re: YAC device...

       

      Okay, after we decide amongst ourselves that this is the design we want, we pass it to the head herald of the Kingdom, if he/she sees no conflict heraldically, then it is passed on up the ladder to make sure it meets with all societal and legal regulations, and to the appropriate heads of offices it may affect, such as the Earl Marshal in our case.  So before it is officially approved, all those issues are answered.

       

      As for your use of the device, i think it just depends on the use you plan to use it for.  As long as it is for an SCA sanctioned event or group, then there is no problem.  To make car decals or stickers to sell for profit, even at an SCA event, I think you will need written permission from either Kingdom or Society before you do.

       

      For further info I would ask our Kingdom Seneschal, Viscountess Nadezhda Volynskaiia (Kim Stump) (541) 905-9443 seneschal@..., she deals with all the mundane laws, and is our liason to all mundane officials.

         YIS,

           Lord Jean-Pierre



      Illic est haud affectus , illic est pacis.
      Illic est haud ignarus , illic est scientia.
      Illic est haud perturbatio , illic est serenus.
      Illic est haud chaos , illic est consensio.
      Illic est haud nex , illic est Phasmatis.

      sona si latine loqueris

      myspace.com/jpcolbert

      --- On Tue, 12/30/08, sabletheblack <jaltona73@...> wrote:

      From: sabletheblack <jaltona73@...>
      Subject: [AnTirYAC] Re: YAC device...
      To: AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 2:18 PM

      Ok...I think I understand what you are trying to say but there are
      two different issues here (having studied copyright law in college
      helps understand, but it doesn't help explain it very well sometimes
      so if that doesn't happen please forgive me).

      First of all we are dealing with two issues and one that legally
      supersedes the other one. By law, the SCA (or a designate) owns
      the "badge" which according to the Berne Convention and USC is
      classified as a "work" which does not require registration to have a
      copyright. The fact that we are interested in making a change to
      that work (the crossed golden swords on a black field) by adding a
      golden yaks head, doesn't change the original rights of the copyright
      holder to allow usage or change to the original work. Also
      the "words" that we use to heraldicly describe a device isn't the
      only part of the copyright -- it's just how heralds describe the
      pictures. It's the actual picture that is the work and thus the
      copyrighted item.

      That being said, the SCA controls the use of it's works (the second
      issue btw)by allowing the populace to use them but only within
      predefined parameters (i.e. being a Laurel or member of the Chivalry)

      My question is pertains to the use as a member of YAC after this
      badge gets approved. I am assuming since we are modifying the SCA
      badge for Marshall Arts which is used by the Kingdom of AnTir with
      permission of the SCA, it would need to be cleared by the Kingdom
      Herald for use as a badge of office/populace. Once that is done, I
      believe that personal usage of the badge would fall under the SCA's
      normal rules of usage. Once the badge is approved, do we need to
      have Kingdom permission to reproduce it or does it fall under the
      normal populace usage rules? And does someone like myself who makes
      reproductions have to have written permission from the governing body
      (read the Kingdom of AnTir or the SCA corporate) to do such if I am
      involved in the group for which it is designed or otherwise?

      Hope I didn't just make somebody's head spin off...

      In Service

      Sebastiaen

      --- In AnTirYAC@yahoogroup s.com, "ursula_of_fowlkeep "
      <solem_atrum@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > As I understand it, I think the only "copyright" the SCA is
      concerned with is that someone
      > else does not use the same device as we have. So If we get this
      approved for YAC,
      > someone can't come in and say "we are the yak's head household and
      this is our
      > hearaldry", because our approval from the Heralds will trump their
      wanting to use the
      > device for anything other than YAC, but if it turned out that some
      one already used the
      > device we are working on, then we would need to find another device
      before the heralds
      > approved it.
      >
      > The device is just the written description, and not the graphics.
      Usually badges are
      > encoraged to be used and reproduced for the purpose they were made.
      So making a big
      > YAC device and hanging it up at fighter practice, before YAC
      workshops and tourneys
      > would be very appropriate, and making YAC stickers to put on loaner
      gear to be sure that
      > it doesn't end up in anyone's personal armour bag is also the sort
      of thing we are
      > encoraged to do with devices. I don't think there is any authority
      that holds a copyright
      > and exclusive permission to use the device other than the Heralds
      approving the device
      > and it being unique to YAC and available for use for YAC purposes.
      >
      > So the upshot would be if you wanted to make YAC stickers and sell
      them, for example, I
      > don't think there would be a problem, and since it wouldn't be
      making anyone rich, and
      > the "copyright" of the device in the SCA is just the words.
      >
      > But check with Teceangle, she should know, being a very active
      herald.
      >
      > YIS
      >
      > Ursula
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In AnTirYAC@yahoogroup s.com, "sabletheblack" <jaltona73@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Well kind of...
      > >
      > > I understand that the artwork you have used is allowed for use in
      the
      > > public domain, but the composite badge being approved for use by
      the
      > > kingdom for YAC...does the barony/kingdom retain copyright for the
      > > official use of this badge and if so who do we get it cleared
      through
      > > for use by the populace involved in YAC, and for that matter
      > > reproducing it (i.e. by someone like myself for said populace)
      > >
      > > Sebastiaen
      > >
      > > --- In AnTirYAC@yahoogroup s.com, Jean Colbert <hljpcolbert@ >
      wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Do you mean like copyrights?  All of these images where taken
      from a
      > > group of free heraldic clipart that is available on numerous
      heraldic
      > > sites, for heralds to use freely.  I am not sure how the Officer
      > > badges work in the SCA.
      > > >    YIS,
      > > >      Lord Jean-Pierre
      > > >
      > > > Illic est haud affectus , illic est pacis.
      > > > Illic est haud ignarus , illic est scientia.
      > > > Illic est haud perturbatio , illic est serenus.
      > > > Illic est haud chaos , illic est consensio.
      > > > Illic est haud nex , illic est Phasmatis.
      > > >
      > > > sona si latine loqueris
      > > >
      > > > myspace.com/ jpcolbert
      > > >
      > > > --- On Mon, 12/29/08, sabletheblack <jaltona73@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > From: sabletheblack <jaltona73@>
      > > > Subject: [AnTirYAC] Re: YAC device...
      > > > To: AnTirYAC@yahoogroup s.com
      > > > Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 11:50 AM
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I agree...though being a graphics person, I think we need to
      get a
      > > > vector of the artwork so it can be properly reproduced.
      > > >
      > > > If this gets approved, who would I need to speak to about being
      > > > allowed to reproduce it?
      > > >
      > > > Sebastiaen
      > > >
      > > > --- In AnTirYAC@yahoogroup s.com, Morgaine Essex
      <morgaine_essex@ ...>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > I love it! Exactly what I was thinking of :)
      > > > >
      > > > > Thank you Lord Jean-Pierre for taking the time to take a
      bunch of
      > > > rambling ideas and putting it together for all to see.
      > > > >
      > > > > cheers
      > > > >
      > > > > In Service I Remain HL Morgaine Essex Barony of
      SeagirtPrincipality
      > > > of Tir Righ Kingdom of An Tir
      > > > >
      > > > > To: AnTirYAC@ : hljpcolbert@ ...: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 17:07:30
      > > > -0800Subject: Re: [AnTirYAC] Re: YAC device...
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Okay, I added a new design for what we have been discussing.
      Let me
      > > > know what you all think.
      > > > > YIS,
      > > > > Lord Jean-Pierre ColbertIllic est haud affectus , illic est
      > > > pacis. Illic est haud ignarus , illic est scientia. Illic est
      haud
      > > > perturbatio , illic est serenus. Illic est haud chaos , illic
      est
      > > > consensio. Illic est haud nex , illic est Phasmatis.sona si
      latine
      > > > loquerismyspace. com/jpcolbert- -- On Wed, 12/24/08,
      ursula_of_fowlkeep
      > > > <solem_atrum@ ...> wrote:
      > > > > From: ursula_of_fowlkeep <solem_atrum@ ...>Subject:
      [AnTirYAC] Re:
      > > > YAC device...To: AnTirYAC@ : Wednesday, December 24, 2008,
      10:03 AM
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > The College of Pages have a badge, and Pied Piper uses the
      Ministry
      > > > of Children badge. I think those are the only Youth specific
      > > > badges.For marshall arts, I know that Archery doesn't have any
      youth
      > > > badge though it has Youth Divisions, everyone in Archery uses
      the
      > > > crossed arrows badge, but archery doesn't have youth specific
      > > > marshalls only youth target ranges. Rapier has only recently
      dropped
      > > > their minimum age to 14 with some limits on participation until
      16, so
      > > > they don't really have a youth division, Thrown weapons doesn't
      have a
      > > > badge, but youth must be 12 or older to participate and throw
      with the
      > > > adults. So we are kind of unique, and unique enough to need our
      own
      > > > badge.I think we should have a main badge that would be the one
      by
      > > > Hallgrim's name on the webpage, but I like Sebastian's idea of
      using
      > > > the animals from each class, but maybe not on the main heraldry
      for
      > > > YAC, our main heraldry should be a unifying badge.One thing in
      the
      > > > rules is the suggestion to make moving from one division to the
      next a
      > > > progression that would be recognized in Court. I like this
      idea, and I
      > > > think we could incorporate the division animals with that. In
      archery
      > > > in my local group what we do when archers move from one scoring
      class
      > > > to the next, we make leather badges which archers can hang on
      their
      > > > quiver or belt so everyone knows that person is a bowman, or
      there
      > > > walks a master. In Archery we just use arrows, cut or stamped
      into the
      > > > leather, with a color on the edge to denote rank. Something
      like those
      > > > badges could be made in each branch, and at most, we would just
      need
      > > > to have some downloadable patterns. Then badges could be made
      anywhere
      > > > in the Kingdom as kids progress from one class to another. That
      way
      > > > someone from the Summits would recognize an Avacal Griffin just
      by the
      > > > badge.I am so with you about not wanting any Disney refugee
      lions on
      > > > our heraldry, but since heraldry is all about the word
      descriptions,
      > > > the lions face would be up to the artist. It reminds me of a
      story an
      > > > SCA long timer told me about someone who's heraldry was
      supposed to be
      > > > a hawk with a battle axe, he found an artist who made something
      that
      > > > looked like Tweetie Bird with a shovel, so to a certain extent
      we
      > > > won't be able to keep Simba out of it if we go Lion Cub, but we
      could
      > > > be sure our onsite heraldry looks good and is downloadable to
      minimize
      > > > the problem. Or we could use a Yak head and just do a bit of
      > > > explaining at first. Thora likes the Yak head idea.YIS,Ursula- -
      - In
      > > > AnTirYAC@yahoogroup s.com, Jean Colbert <hljpcolbert@ ...>
      wrote:>> I
      > > > know the kingdom has a populace badge, to they have a seperate
      one for
      > > > minors? Or are there other identifiers from other offices that
      > > > seperate child devisions from adult devisions? I am a strong
      > > > supporter of continuity. I like the idea of the Cubs head,
      except
      > > > that unless we make it look like Simba or some other cartoony
      look, it
      > > > may not be recognized as a lion cub but some other great cat
      without a
      > > > mane. On the Other hand a Yak head is definately distinctive,
      but
      > > > like you said, others may not recognize the humorous connection
      in
      > > > it.> YIS,> Lord Jean-Pierre> > Illic est haud affectus , illic
      > > > est pacis. > Illic est haud ignarus , illic est scientia. >
      Illic est
      > > > haud perturbatio , illic est serenus. > Illic est haud chaos ,
      illic
      > > > est consensio. > Illic est haud nex , illic est Phasmatis.> >
      sona si
      > > > latine loqueris> > myspace.com/ jpcolbert> > --- On Tue,
      12/23/08,
      > > > ursula_of_fowlkeep <solem_atrum@ ...> wrote:> > From:
      > > > ursula_of_fowlkeep <solem_atrum@ ...>> Subject: [AnTirYAC] Re:
      YAC
      > > > device...> To: AnTirYAC@yahoogroup s.com> Date: Tuesday,
      December 23,
      > > > 2008, 3:42 PM> > > > > > > It looks like YAC is part of the Earl
      > > > Marshall's domain, seeing as how that is where the > kingdom
      has it
      > > > listed. Armoured Combat, Archery, Rapier and Equestrian all have
      > > > badges > that are a variation of gold crossed long sharp
      weapons on a
      > > > black field, and Equestrian > has a horse's head over their
      crossed
      > > > lances. It would make sense for YAC to follow that > theme. I
      would
      > > > not be surprised if we would get opposition, if we went too far
      afield
      > > > from > the general Earl Marshalate form.> > Something like a
      gold
      > > > Lion's Cub head over crossed gold swords on black might make it
      > past
      > > > the heralds without much trouble, and anyone who knew anything
      about
      > > > heraldry > would be able to tell that the place for YAC info is
      with
      > > > the Marshalate and not the > Childrens Ministry. A Yak head
      would work
      > > > just as well, but some folks might not get the > humor of it.
      I'm sure
      > > > with a little thought we'd find number of other variations.> >
      The
      > > > more I think about it what ever we do, a device is a good idea,
      for it
      > > > will make YAC > more recognizable. Not to mention, Hallgrim's
      name
      > > > looks lonely there on the kingdom > page without a badge by
      it.> > YIS
      > > > > > Ursula> > --- In AnTirYAC@yahoogroup s.com, Jean Colbert
      > > > <hljpcolbert@ ...> wrote:> >> > I am not sure officicially
      where we
      > > > lay, but I know, we could easily fall into either > category. >
      >
      > > > YIS,> > LJPC> > > > Illic est haud affectus , illic est pacis. >
      > > > > Illic est haud ignarus , illic est scientia. > > Illic est
      haud
      > > > perturbatio , illic est serenus. > > Illic est haud chaos ,
      illic est
      > > > consensio. > > Illic est haud nex , illic est Phasmatis.> > > >
      sona
      > > > si latine loqueris> > > > myspace.com/ jpcolbert> > > > --- On
      Mon,
      > > > 12/22/08, ursula_of_fowlkeep <solem_atrum@ ...> wrote:>
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
      _________ _
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >

       

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    • Jean Colbert
      If they could bestow the WOAW on a Barony instead of individuals, our Barony would have been WOADed a long time ago.  We are known as the whimsical Barony. 
      Message 50 of 50 , Apr 9, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        If they could bestow the WOAW on a Barony instead of individuals, our Barony would have been WOADed a long time ago.  We are known as the whimsical Barony.  Our Baronial Guard is known as the Beevarians, and every year we have a war with Blath an Oir over honey, and it is called Honey War, we wear black and yellow striped tabbards.  Our current Baron has instigated a new program in our Barony, that provides learning material to any one with a norse persona, known as "No Norse Left Behind," and they always have lots of pictures, since we know they do not like to "draw sounds."  I think if a WOAW spy sat in on one of our business meetings, s/he would be pulling his hair out by the end of it, lol.
           YIS,
             Lord Jean-Pierre Colbert le Chasseur de Lorraine

        Youth Armored Combat Warden for the Barony of Glymm Mere
        Member of the Beevarian Guard of the Barony of Glymm Mere
        Tout autour du gentil type

        myspace.com/jpcolbert

        --- On Thu, 4/9/09, ursula_of_fowlkeep <solem_atrum@...> wrote:
        From: ursula_of_fowlkeep <solem_atrum@...>
        Subject: [AnTirYAC] Re: YAC device...
        To: AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 6:44 PM

        So Jean-Pierre, do people get WOAWed, Whimsical Order of the Ailing Wit, in your barony? The Grand Puntiff has many spies...

        I'm not one of them, but they are everywhere.  ;-)

        Ursula

        --- In AnTirYAC@yahoogroup s.com, Jean Colbert <hljpcolbert@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > I just thought of another idea for our YAC device.  I must apologize first, but it is the PUN-isher in me that came up with this idea.  How about a young goat (AKA: a kid)?
        >    YIS,
        >      Lord Jean-Pierre Colbert le Chasseur de Lorraine
        >
        > Youth Armored Combat Warden for the Barony of Glymm Mere
        > Member of the Beevarian Guard of the Barony of Glymm Mere
        > Tout autour du gentil type
        >
        > myspace.com/ jpcolbert
        >


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