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Re: Use of the new rules

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  • ursula_of_fowlkeep
    The boffer tourney was last weekend, most of the women wouldn t do it because a hit on the head was a killing blow, so mostly kids did the competition. The
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 15, 2008
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      The "boffer" tourney was last weekend, most of the women wouldn't do it because a hit on
      the head was a killing blow, so mostly kids did the competition. The autocrat brought all
      the weapons which were PVC, tape, and lots of open cell foam. Fortunatly no one was hurt.
      I'm relieved no one brought proper youth rattan.

      I wasn't all that suprised that the tourney had trouble getting women to fight. I mean a
      head shot for the killing blow and no helms, I wouldn't do it, and I clearly wasn't the only
      one who felt that way. I still feel uncomfortable about someone saying use YAC rules to
      make weapons for an organized unarmoured competition, even though this particular
      "boffer" activity turned out to be pretty tame.

      YIS

      Ursula



      --- In AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com, "ursula_of_fowlkeep" <solem_atrum@...> wrote:
      >
      > When the new rules were signed in September, rattan cores were made offical. Hallgrim
      > did write a memo, after turning the new rules into Crown in July, allowing PEX and PVC
      to
      > be used for the remainder of tourney season. I haven't seen the memo, so I don't know
      > exactly when it will expire, if it hasn't already. The new rules are the ones posted on the
      > kingdom website. I'm not sure the old rules are available anymore.
      >
      > This event is this weekend, and the rules for combat were just posted a yesterday, so I
      > think I'm out of luck doing anything about this event, but I think it's something that
      needs
      > to be discussed in the YAC community. I am really uncomfortable with the idea of
      women
      > in revel garb whacking at each others heads with stylized YAC sticks. Their weapons are
      to
      > be made to look like kitchen impliments, but some of those weapons may be as hard as
      a
      > YAC sword.
      >
      > Granted a number of women will make all foam weapons, which I feel fine about, but
      this
      > could get a bit rough if someone made a real YAC rules weapon and uses it. I even had
      > half a thought of making something for the tourney, just to prove my point, but I didn't
      > want to waste the tape, foam, and rattan. Plus I will not be fighting.
      >
      > This feels like a misuse of the YAC rules to me. We wrote the rules for Armored
      > Combatants, and this "boffer" tourney is something completly different, and the
      > combatants will not be wearing armour. I wouldn't be so worried if the winning blow was
      > to take both arms, but this is the first hit on the head wins, so these women will be
      aiming
      > for heads, which is very different. I know someone who was injured in one of these
      > tourneys a couple of years ago. The tape caught her cornia, and she had to go to the
      > hospital. Her eye is fine now, thankfully.
      >
      > For YAC I love the new rattan weapons, I've made 4 of them, they make the Dragons
      look a
      > lot more like heavys when they fight because the sword profile is thinner and the action
      is
      > faster. I have developed a healthy respect for YAC swords after working with them, but
      > the autocrat must have thought "kids rules, of course it's safe." Perhaps there needs to
      be
      > a memo afirming that YAC weapons are to be used for armourd combat in organized
      > tourneys and competitions. Unarmored fun tourneys should use different weapons
      > construction.
      >
      > I know YAC swords will get campsite use, but that isn't an organized event or
      competition,
      > and it's not my business what people do on their own time. It's only organized stuff that
      I
      > am concerned is a misuse of the rules.
      >
      > If I had known the "boffer" tourney was going to use the YAC rules for weapons
      > construction sooner, I would have said something to the autocrat, but at this point I'm
      > gathering info for the next time one of these "boffer" tourneys is schedualed.
      >
      > YIS
      >
      > Ursula
      >
      > --- In AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com, Jean Colbert <hljpcolbert@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Have the rattan core rule been made official?  I thought they where still probationary/
      > experimental?  If they have been made official, I would suggest to your group they use
      the
      > old rules, and as an added precaution, I would also suggest they use funnoodles in the
      > construction or the fabric covered foam like you suggested.  I would suggest this for
      two
      > reasons:  1)  the extra added foam or lack of solid core in the later case;  2)  to help
      > prevent YAC weapons being confused for them, and accidently used in their steed.
      > >    YIS,
      > >      Lord Jean-Pierre
      > >
      > > Illic est haud affectus , illic est pacis.
      > > Illic est haud ignarus , illic est scientia.
      > > Illic est haud perturbatio , illic est serenus.
      > > Illic est haud chaos , illic est consensio.
      > > Illic est haud nex , illic est Phasmatis.
      > >
      > > myspace.com/jpcolbert
      > >
      > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, ursula_of_fowlkeep <solem_atrum@> wrote:
      > >
      > > From: ursula_of_fowlkeep <solem_atrum@>
      > > Subject: [AnTirYAC] Use of the new rules
      > > To: AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 8:53 AM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Greetings, I have an interesting situation that I am looking at. I thought I would
      mention
      > > it here, because many of us involved in the YAC rewrite are on this list.
      > >
      > > One event that is growing in popularity are women's "boffer" tourney's, done as an
      > > entertainment at feasts.
      > >
      > > I don't have an issue with having the event, but I have a concern if they use the new
      YAC
      > > rules weapon construction rules, and the combatants in the tourney are without
      armour,
      > > and to win a bout one must hit one's opponent on the head.
      > >
      > > I know the kids will play at campsite with their YAC swords and no armor, but what
      any
      > > kids playing with YAC weapons around me hears is, NO headshots, no soft
      > > targets(privates, belly, and kidneys), pull their shots, and I'll take weapons away from
      > any
      > > kid who cannot handle that. Whacking at each others arms, legs, and sides is a whole
      > > different kettle of fish than headshots.
      > >
      > > I have a growing concern about this sort of event, if real YAC weapons are used in an
      > > organized event that has head shots as the winning blow. In this region we don't have
      a
      > lot
      > > of YAC marshalls, so there isn't anyone stepping in and voicing concerns about the
      use
      > of
      > > the YAC rules in this way.
      > >
      > > Personally I'd rather they use fabric covered, all foam weapons for safety in an
      > unarmoured
      > > combat competition. I was going to let Thora fight, until I discovered that the
      weapons
      > > were to be constructed with YAC rules.
      > >
      > > Am I being a total worry wort, or is this something that needs attention. The
      upcoming
      > > event is so soon, that I am asking more for future events, so I'll know whether to
      speak
      > up
      > > or not.
      > >
      > > I'd love some feedback, I know Hallgrim is very busy with work, but there are other
      YAC
      > > marshalls here, and I would like to hear their thoughts. I haven't said anything to the
      > > autocrat, I don't even know if she knows the rules have been changed to rattan cores.
      I
      > felt
      > > I should get some input here first.
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > >
      > > Ursula
      > >
      >
    • sabletheblack
      Greetings everyone, I am new to this group, but consider myself a relative experienced if mediocre fighter of different forms, many which have found their
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 15, 2008
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        Greetings everyone,

        I am new to this group, but consider myself a relative experienced
        if mediocre fighter of different forms, many which have found their
        place within SCA sanctioned as well as some of the fringe groups that
        seem to populate around the SCA.

        I recently have read the ABYAC and whole-heartedly agree that use
        of rattan in a "boffer-styled" tournament is completely unacceptable.
        In addition, I would like to note head-shots in any unarmored combat
        is not cool as well. Does it happen? Yes it does. This is why I and
        others who practice this style as entertainment and fun have made sure
        that weapon construction are as safe as possible.

        Within the last year, I was approached about helping a themed
        event come about involving pirates and SCA'dians. As part of the
        brainstorming, I sent a copy of the DBFC (Drakkenguard Book of Feather
        Combat) to the Earl Marshal of AnTir, and we had an excellent
        discussion about the use of these rules at a sanctioned event. It was
        a very constructive conversation, despite the inability to move
        forward with the event we were working on.

        For those not familiar with DBFC let me give you a few points to
        work from (if you want a copy of the rules, go ahead and email me and
        I will be glad to forward a copy in pdf to you). Weapons are
        constructed of PVC and pool noodles, being held together with
        athletic, duct or stage tape. They can optionally be covered with
        fabric. The end result is a weapon that is relatively soft, without
        any hard edges. Target areas are torso, arms, and legs down to the
        knee. No "armor" is allowed because it would damage the weapon and
        create a potential hazard. There aren't even blade edges marked on
        the weapons for the most part. We encourage an element of control
        especially when adults are playing with children but for the most part
        it is like playing a glorified game of tag. Injuries are rare, infact
        I can only remember one injury in the last 5-6 years that just
        required someone to sit out for a while. And it isn't always about
        the fighting....let me give you an example.

        Two years ago, I was an officer with the privateers ship, The
        Leo's Pride at an event many know as The Gathering. We had a large
        dinner and alarm bell for our ships crew and a camp near us had an
        issue at one point with it, so they appropriated it from us (as does
        happen at pirate events). We found out who took it, and many were
        ready to go "raid their camp" as does happen at this event (with
        boffers of course). Me and another member had the idea to try a
        different approach. We had every member of our crew grab some form of
        noisemaker, pots and pans, more bells, tin flutes....you name it our
        40 member complement brought it....we sent a messenger with a warning
        letter saying to return the bell...or else. Of course it was done
        with proper parchment, fountain pen and a stamp with a skull on it.
        When they refused, we showed up and made so much noise at their
        gate...it was hilarious. We had them expecting a camp raid with
        boffer weapons and heavy action trying to get the bell back, but
        instead we had them rolling on the ground holding their sides.

        The point you ask? It's just a different way to have fun at an
        event that doesn't require hundreds of dollars of equipment, sometimes
        days of training at a minimum to be authorized to play and have fun.
        Do I see camp raiding happening at an SCA event? No, at least not any
        time soon, but I can honestly say that I, many others and even some
        peerage of the SCA enjoy this kind of fun when played with the proper
        amount of safety which we show every time we play.

        In my years of experience with this sort of fun, head shots should
        be out if you do it again. And if you do it again, personally invite
        some people who do this on a regular basis to help plan, marshal and
        even participate. It could become very big.

        My apologies if I have spent a hundred words saying what 20 would
        have, but this is a subject dear to me and I would like to see events
        like this continue.

        In Service

        Sebastiaen "Sable" desRoseaux
        aka
        David Hemmer
        jaltona73@...
      • Daði
        Greetings Ursula, I am glad that your event went off without issues! J I for one, think that all foam pool noodle swords make an EXCELLENT substitute for
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 16, 2008
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          Greetings Ursula,

           

              I am glad that your event went off without issues!   J    I for one, think that all foam pool noodle swords make an EXCELLENT substitute for any weapon at a feast or other rowdy-fun kind of event.   The beauty of them is, you can pretty much do whatever you want with maximum damage equivalent to a pillow fight.     I usually put a 6” – 8” PVC handle in them to make them feel sword-like, but overall, a pool noodle sword covered in light fabric (for looks) is not enough to intimidate anyone, and other than making sure folks take off their glasses, allows for the headshot aspect. 

           

          Perhaps you could suggest this to the organizers for next year!

           

          This is what we use for un-official capture the flag etc around these parts.    We use the same hit-locations etc of the YABCs to keep continuity. 

           

          J

           

          Cheers,

          -= Daði

        • ursula_of_fowlkeep
          Hi Daði, I am so glad that the boffer tourney went off without a problem. I like your ideas about weapon construction for the next time such an event is
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 20, 2008
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            Hi Daði,

            I am so glad that the "boffer" tourney went off without a problem. I like your ideas about
            weapon construction for the next time such an event is schedualed. I was rather worried
            about the thought of unarmored people doing head shots with YAC legal weapons, I think
            the new rattan rules must have stopped folks from making new weapons for the boffer
            tourney. Thank goodness.

            I will certainly talk to the next person who puts on this sort of event, and forward your
            suggestions to them. I think I'll also suggest that losing both arms should be the winning
            blow, since the theme was "too many cooks in the kitchen" anyone who has lost both arms
            can't stir the pot, so they are out of the kitchen. That would be a heck of a lot safer.

            YIS

            Ursula



            --- In AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com, Daði <dan@...> wrote:
            >
            > Greetings Ursula,
            >
            >
            >
            > I am glad that your event went off without issues! J I for one,
            > think that all foam pool noodle swords make an EXCELLENT substitute for any
            > weapon at a feast or other rowdy-fun kind of event. The beauty of them is,
            > you can pretty much do whatever you want with maximum damage equivalent to a
            > pillow fight. I usually put a 6" – 8" PVC handle in them to make them
            > feel sword-like, but overall, a pool noodle sword covered in light fabric
            > (for looks) is not enough to intimidate anyone, and other than making sure
            > folks take off their glasses, allows for the headshot aspect.
            >
            >
            >
            > Perhaps you could suggest this to the organizers for next year!
            >
            >
            >
            > This is what we use for un-official capture the flag etc around these parts.
            > We use the same hit-locations etc of the YABCs to keep continuity.
            >
            >
            >
            > J
            >
            >
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > -= Daði
            >
          • Daði Mánaskröggr Vébrandsson
            ROFL! Losing two arms. Nice! -= Daði ... -- All for one, and one for all! -= Daði Mánaskröggr Vébrandsson MKA: Daniel
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 20, 2008
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              ROFL! Losing two arms. Nice!

              -= Daði

              > Hi Daði,
              >
              > I am so glad that the "boffer" tourney went off without a problem. I like
              > your ideas about
              > weapon construction for the next time such an event is schedualed. I was
              > rather worried
              > about the thought of unarmored people doing head shots with YAC legal
              > weapons, I think
              > the new rattan rules must have stopped folks from making new weapons for
              > the boffer
              > tourney. Thank goodness.
              >
              > I will certainly talk to the next person who puts on this sort of event,
              > and forward your
              > suggestions to them. I think I'll also suggest that losing both arms
              > should be the winning
              > blow, since the theme was "too many cooks in the kitchen" anyone who has
              > lost both arms
              > can't stir the pot, so they are out of the kitchen. That would be a heck
              > of a lot safer.
              >
              > YIS
              >
              > Ursula
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In AnTirYAC@yahoogroups.com, Daði <dan@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> Greetings Ursula,
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> I am glad that your event went off without issues! J I for one,
              >> think that all foam pool noodle swords make an EXCELLENT substitute for
              >> any
              >> weapon at a feast or other rowdy-fun kind of event. The beauty of them
              >> is,
              >> you can pretty much do whatever you want with maximum damage equivalent
              >> to a
              >> pillow fight. I usually put a 6" – 8" PVC handle in them to make
              >> them
              >> feel sword-like, but overall, a pool noodle sword covered in light
              >> fabric
              >> (for looks) is not enough to intimidate anyone, and other than making
              >> sure
              >> folks take off their glasses, allows for the headshot aspect.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Perhaps you could suggest this to the organizers for next year!
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> This is what we use for un-official capture the flag etc around these
              >> parts.
              >> We use the same hit-locations etc of the YABCs to keep continuity.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> J
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Cheers,
              >>
              >> -= Daði
              >>
              >
              >
              >


              --
              "All for one, and one for all!"

              -= Daði Mánaskröggr Vébrandsson
              MKA: Daniel
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