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Re: A-P Re: ACLU Again Targeting Christians

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  • becca111@webtv.net
    Robert, I don t think I said learning about other cultures...or ways of life..or even studying and learning about religion, beliefs or lack of believing should
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 1, 2006
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      Robert,
      I don't think I said learning about other cultures...or ways of life..or
      even studying and learning about religion, beliefs or lack of believing
      should be kept out of school... Discussion in school of any topic
      related to people, the world, the environment...helping us understand
      this awesome earth, universe, and galaxy... as well as each other,
      couldn't be a bad thing....imo

      Understanding promotes tolerance, patience..and, acceptance of
      others.hopefully....just as they are...of course, it depends on what
      type of relationship or understanding one is seeking and some aren't
      seeking any.

      That can be the difference between being part of the solution..or part
      of the problem...in negotiating anything in life. If participants have
      no desire to make life easier for each other, much less the desire to
      stop stepping on another's toes, we end up with a stalemate and
      failure.in some form.

      When we can view a situation...from the idea that we could be in
      another's shoes....then we may begin to stop and think of our own
      behaviors....and, put them in check as necessary because we are able to
      have empathy for someone else and their circumstance.

      For example....we all know someone that has or has had a weight problem
      or any other real or perceived "physical" problem.
      For those of us that love people in whichever situation we might want to
      discuss...we don't judge them... we don't belittle them...we simply love
      them....to the best of our ability.. or, at least that is what we might
      be striving for......in our personal relationships. And, certainly
      every individual....all of us... no matter the size, perceived
      handicap... or any number of other factors..all of us want to be
      unconditionally accepted appreciated....and, understood and loved just
      as we are.... a remarkable situation to be in.. in the world today..

      The point is....if we are talking about our personal
      relationships....or, our neighbors, our fellow Americans, or someone
      arriving here from another country...no matter where anyone is from or
      resides..... we all have those "wants" in common....even if it isn't
      apparent to anyone but to each of us individually.

      When dealing with the "masses" such as in the case of celebrating
      Christmas in school.....we must try to put ourselves in the shoes of our
      counterparts from other religions...other cultures....and, be sensitive
      to their needs as well as our own. That's how we became a civilized
      society... Though.. because we can't count on everyone to step up and
      consider the good of all.... we have organizations like the ACLU that
      work hard toward assuring personal freedoms are not diminished.....such
      as in the case of separation of church and state...related to this
      issue..

      Teaching about different religions in school is quite different than
      celebrating a religious holiday in school.

      For those that imagine that Christianity is perfectly fine in our
      schools believing it is the national "religion".... they might
      consider... should they wake up tomorrow or next week, or next year and
      find the beliefs.....acts and actions of the Christian churches to be
      opposite of their beliefs..... then, it would be understood...why the
      ACLU is currently acting in everyone's best interest and trying to make
      sure our freedom of religion is fully in tact.
      So we may all practice whatever our religious beliefs.....at our own
      liberty.

      Some might say....that couldn't happen...well, I would submit it has
      already happened to many people...even people that may call themselves
      Christians.

      Bec
    • William Smith
      Huhhhhhhhhhhhhhh??????????????????? What do fat people, the ACLU and the opinions of Christian churches have to do with the fact that Christmas is a national
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 1, 2006
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        Huhhhhhhhhhhhhhh???????????????????

        What do fat people, the ACLU and the opinions of
        Christian churches have to do with the fact that
        "Christmas" is a national holiday, and "Christmas" was
        established to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ?

        I don't need the ACLU to protect me from Jesus, and I
        don't see them as the bastions of the protection of
        rights garanteed by the Constitution. In fact, if it
        weren't for 'Christians' there would be no
        Constitution. You cannot have one without the other,
        and that is why I put up with the antics of the ACLU,
        and the misguided concepts you present here.


        --- becca111@... wrote:

        > Robert,
        > I don't think I said learning about other
        > cultures...or ways of life..or
        > even studying and learning about religion, beliefs
        > or lack of believing
        > should be kept out of school... Discussion in school
        > of any topic
        > related to people, the world, the
        > environment...helping us understand
        > this awesome earth, universe, and galaxy... as well
        > as each other,
        > couldn't be a bad thing....imo
        >
        > Understanding promotes tolerance, patience..and,
        > acceptance of
        > others.hopefully....just as they are...of course, it
        > depends on what
        > type of relationship or understanding one is seeking
        > and some aren't
        > seeking any.
        >
        > That can be the difference between being part of the
        > solution..or part
        > of the problem...in negotiating anything in life.
        > If participants have
        > no desire to make life easier for each other, much
        > less the desire to
        > stop stepping on another's toes, we end up with a
        > stalemate and
        > failure.in some form.
        >
        > When we can view a situation...from the idea that we
        > could be in
        > another's shoes....then we may begin to stop and
        > think of our own
        > behaviors....and, put them in check as necessary
        > because we are able to
        > have empathy for someone else and their
        > circumstance.
        >
        > For example....we all know someone that has or has
        > had a weight problem
        > or any other real or perceived "physical" problem.
        > For those of us that love people in whichever
        > situation we might want to
        > discuss...we don't judge them... we don't belittle
        > them...we simply love
        > them....to the best of our ability.. or, at least
        > that is what we might
        > be striving for......in our personal relationships.
        > And, certainly
        > every individual....all of us... no matter the size,
        > perceived
        > handicap... or any number of other factors..all of
        > us want to be
        > unconditionally accepted appreciated....and,
        > understood and loved just
        > as we are.... a remarkable situation to be in.. in
        > the world today..
        >
        > The point is....if we are talking about our personal
        > relationships....or, our neighbors, our fellow
        > Americans, or someone
        > arriving here from another country...no matter
        > where anyone is from or
        > resides..... we all have those "wants" in
        > common....even if it isn't
        > apparent to anyone but to each of us individually.
        >
        > When dealing with the "masses" such as in the case
        > of celebrating
        > Christmas in school.....we must try to put ourselves
        > in the shoes of our
        > counterparts from other religions...other
        > cultures....and, be sensitive
        > to their needs as well as our own. That's how we
        > became a civilized
        > society... Though.. because we can't count on
        > everyone to step up and
        > consider the good of all.... we have organizations
        > like the ACLU that
        > work hard toward assuring personal freedoms are not
        > diminished.....such
        > as in the case of separation of church and
        > state...related to this
        > issue..
        >
        > Teaching about different religions in school is
        > quite different than
        > celebrating a religious holiday in school.
        >
        > For those that imagine that Christianity is
        > perfectly fine in our
        > schools believing it is the national "religion"....
        > they might
        > consider... should they wake up tomorrow or next
        > week, or next year and
        > find the beliefs.....acts and actions of the
        > Christian churches to be
        > opposite of their beliefs..... then, it would be
        > understood...why the
        > ACLU is currently acting in everyone's best interest
        > and trying to make
        > sure our freedom of religion is fully in tact.
        > So we may all practice whatever our religious
        > beliefs.....at our own
        > liberty.
        >
        > Some might say....that couldn't happen...well, I
        > would submit it has
        > already happened to many people...even people that
        > may call themselves
        > Christians.
        >
        > Bec
        >
        >




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      • becca111@webtv.net
        William, If some competition were trying to shut down your company.....or trying to manipulate how you do business.... and, the ACLU stepped in to protect your
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 1, 2006
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          William,
          If some competition were trying to shut down your company.....or trying
          to manipulate how you do business.... and, the ACLU stepped in to
          protect your rights... perhapsĀ then, you would understand.

          This isn't about what I want or you want...or any other "individual"
          wants it's about protecting the rights of everyone...it may not fit into
          everyone's comfort zone, and some will fail to understand but then,
          protecting us from ourselves is probably difficult.....depending on
          which side of each situation each person resides.

          If the ACLU helped to defend your rights to operate your company, and
          that is a feasible scenario.....many might not see any
          benefit...directed toward them.....and, they may say... I don't need.
          It wouldn't mean that they were necessarily right.....

          Bec
        • William Smith
          Well, the sadness of it is: I asked the ACLU for help once where business was concerned. No help. The justice department, no help. The F.B.I., no help. No,
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 1, 2006
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            Well, the sadness of it is: I asked the ACLU for help
            once where business was concerned.

            No help. The justice department, no help. The
            F.B.I., no help. No, they are froth with hypocracy.

            I am the wrong color, and of the wrong sex, and of the
            wrong disposition as far as they are concerned.

            And then on another instance when all was at the wall,
            a distant ACLU affiliation pretty much passed
            judgement that I should thirst, and be broke, and
            impoverished.

            No, the ACLU is nothing but a bunch of clowns wearing
            nonsanctioned judges robes.

            They are a cancer to society at large.

            --- becca111@... wrote:

            > William,
            > If some competition were trying to shut down your
            > company.....or trying
            > to manipulate how you do business.... and, the ACLU
            > stepped in to
            > protect your rights... perhapsĀ then, you would
            > understand.
            >
            > This isn't about what I want or you want...or any
            > other "individual"
            > wants it's about protecting the rights of
            > everyone...it may not fit into
            > everyone's comfort zone, and some will fail to
            > understand but then,
            > protecting us from ourselves is probably
            > difficult.....depending on
            > which side of each situation each person resides.
            >
            > If the ACLU helped to defend your rights to operate
            > your company, and
            > that is a feasible scenario.....many might not see
            > any
            > benefit...directed toward them.....and, they may
            > say... I don't need.
            > It wouldn't mean that they were necessarily
            > right.....
            >
            > Bec
            >
            >




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          • William H. Smith
            And you actually believe what you just wrote? ... vote ... public ... the ... from ... holiday.....why is ... faiths ... about ... celebrate ... in a ...
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 1, 2006
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              And you actually believe what you just wrote?


              --- In American-politics@yahoogroups.com, becca111@... wrote:
              >
              > If that wasn't emotional...lol I'm not sure what would be... Let's
              vote
              > on it.....if that would resolve things, but it wouldn't.. The
              public
              > schools are owned by all Americans...
              >
              > Our constitution was written to protect individual rights....
              > preventing any group from controlling the rest... Everyone has
              > beliefs...but, they aren't permitted to force them onto the rest of
              the
              > population....
              > no matter who people desire not to consider...that's why there are
              > laws...to clear up muddy waters...such as this, and why I'm sure the
              > ACLU is actively challenging this activity....
              >
              > Nothing at all wrong with children playing...however, when days off
              from
              > school are set aside for the purpose of celebrating a
              holiday.....why is
              > further time needed to celebrate? Why should children of other
              faiths
              > be set aside and or subjected to someone else's personal beliefs
              about
              > God...in school? If someone from another faith were to openly
              celebrate
              > their religious holidays in school...the christians would be up in
              > arms... Most practice their religion within their own settings....
              in a
              > respectful manner... not trying to dominate the world or convert
              passers
              > by.... Religion is one of the most private freedoms we
              enjoy...freedom
              > of and from religion as each individual chooses....when you bring it
              > into public places.....that are paid for with public money,
              then ....the
              > public must be respected and protected...... hard as that may be
              for
              > some to grasp.
              >
              > It's a new and changing world..people come from many
              places........why
              > not show mutual respect.. for the differences that exist among al
              of our
              > fellow Americans.
              >
              > Bec
              >
            • becca111@webtv.net
              William, I m not in the habit of writing something that I don t believe... I do not lack sincerity. Just as the ACLU...isn t likely perfect....nor is any
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 1, 2006
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                William,
                I'm not in the habit of writing something that I don't believe... I do
                not lack sincerity.

                Just as the ACLU...isn't likely perfect....nor is any government,
                company, or human....we are all works in progress....we may falter in
                one instance or several.... It is good cause to continue to try and
                continue on..... no matter who we are speaking about.

                I am sorry your efforts to seek help from the ACLU weren't successful...
                And, I'm sure you are sincere in your statements about them..... Though,
                somewhere...I'm sure they have done good works...we don't always hear
                about the good accomplished...it is mostly the controversial and the
                bad that is flashed at us on a daily basis. Sad but true...imo!

                Bec.
              • William Smith
                Well, what happened to me was bad, was controversial, and that is about it. My problem. Not anyone elses. I got over it, without their help, and that is
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 1, 2006
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                  Well, what happened to me was bad, was controversial,
                  and that is about it. My problem. Not anyone elses.
                  I got over it, without their help, and that is good.

                  So pardon me if I do not share the same opinion as you
                  where this opinionated and insipid group of collective
                  grand standers are concerned.

                  Facts are what facts are. I am sure they have done
                  some very good things in the past, but much like the
                  Unions of today it is generally a flacid and pointless
                  organization that doesn't know any better when it
                  comes time to realising it needs to just sit back and
                  watch.

                  And it doesn't know the difference between things it
                  should be looking into, and things it doesn't.

                  Their values, just like ours, are for the most part
                  pretty well skewed.




                  --- becca111@... wrote:

                  > William,
                  > I'm not in the habit of writing something that I
                  > don't believe... I do
                  > not lack sincerity.
                  >
                  > Just as the ACLU...isn't likely perfect....nor is
                  > any government,
                  > company, or human....we are all works in
                  > progress....we may falter in
                  > one instance or several.... It is good cause to
                  > continue to try and
                  > continue on..... no matter who we are speaking
                  > about.
                  >
                  > I am sorry your efforts to seek help from the ACLU
                  > weren't successful...
                  > And, I'm sure you are sincere in your statements
                  > about them..... Though,
                  > somewhere...I'm sure they have done good works...we
                  > don't always hear
                  > about the good accomplished...it is mostly the
                  > controversial and the
                  > bad that is flashed at us on a daily basis. Sad but
                  > true...imo!
                  >
                  > Bec.
                  >
                  >




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                • gmd10ms
                  I wonder what Daniel Pearl was thinking when those respectful Islamists were shouting Allah Akbar while cutting his head off with a chain saw. And don t
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 1, 2006
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                    I wonder what Daniel Pearl was thinking when those respectful
                    Islamists were shouting "Allah Akbar" while cutting his head off with
                    a chain saw. And don't forget Nick Berg whose bloody screams were
                    heard on the video as those respectful Islamists cut his head off
                    with a chainsaw while shouting "Allah Akbar". GMWAS, where did Becca
                    leave her head? I've not heard such nonsensical drivel since I was
                    teaching college freshman 20 years ago. GGA! Where is Macs_Bac when
                    we need him? Her type of foolishness is an indulgence this country
                    cannot afford.

                    ======



                    --- In American-politics@yahoogroups.com, "William H. Smith"
                    <wmsmith64@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > And you actually believe what you just wrote?
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In American-politics@yahoogroups.com, becca111@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > If that wasn't emotional...lol I'm not sure what would be...
                    Let's
                    > vote
                    > > on it.....if that would resolve things, but it wouldn't.. The
                    > public
                    > > schools are owned by all Americans...
                    > >
                    > > Our constitution was written to protect individual rights....
                    > > preventing any group from controlling the rest... Everyone has
                    > > beliefs...but, they aren't permitted to force them onto the rest
                    of
                    > the
                    > > population....
                    > > no matter who people desire not to consider...that's why there are
                    > > laws...to clear up muddy waters...such as this, and why I'm sure
                    the
                    > > ACLU is actively challenging this activity....
                    > >
                    > > Nothing at all wrong with children playing...however, when days
                    off
                    > from
                    > > school are set aside for the purpose of celebrating a
                    > holiday.....why is
                    > > further time needed to celebrate? Why should children of other
                    > faiths
                    > > be set aside and or subjected to someone else's personal beliefs
                    > about
                    > > God...in school? If someone from another faith were to openly
                    > celebrate
                    > > their religious holidays in school...the christians would be up in
                    > > arms... Most practice their religion within their own
                    settings....
                    > in a
                    > > respectful manner... not trying to dominate the world or convert
                    > passers
                    > > by.... Religion is one of the most private freedoms we
                    > enjoy...freedom
                    > > of and from religion as each individual chooses....when you bring
                    it
                    > > into public places.....that are paid for with public money,
                    > then ....the
                    > > public must be respected and protected...... hard as that may be
                    > for
                    > > some to grasp.
                    > >
                    > > It's a new and changing world..people come from many
                    > places........why
                    > > not show mutual respect.. for the differences that exist among al
                    > of our
                    > > fellow Americans.
                    > >
                    > > Bec
                    > >
                    >
                  • becca111@webtv.net
                    Cricket... If you think you can get by with comparing the ACLU to the terrorists beheading someone or even suggesting that people from different cultures in
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 1, 2006
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                      Cricket...
                      If you think you can get by with comparing the ACLU to the terrorists
                      beheading someone or even suggesting that people from different cultures
                      in the US are guilty by association....then, perhaps you need to go
                      check with your Dr... to determine your mental clarity or lack there
                      of... and God forbid that you would be teaching anything if, in fact..
                      you ever did.

                      Bec
                    • Pope Urban ll
                      LMAO - thank you Becca for posting that because I was just about to tear into it. You might have saved me from breaking a finger nail - lol. Pope
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 1, 2006
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                        LMAO - thank you Becca for  posting that  because I was just about  to tear into it.    You might have saved me from breaking a finger nail - lol.

                        Pope






                        becca111@... wrote:
                        Cricket...
                        If you think you can get by with comparing the ACLU to the terrorists
                        beheading someone or even suggesting that people from different cultures
                        in the US are guilty by association. ...then, perhaps you need to go
                        check with your Dr... to determine your mental clarity or lack there
                        of... and God forbid that you would be teaching anything if, in fact..
                        you ever did.

                        Bec


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                      • First Last
                        I m actually a card-carrying member of the ACLU and have been since 1972...I m not a lawyer...but have some education in that arena. Our goal is to protect the
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 1, 2006
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                          I'm actually a card-carrying member of the ACLU and have been since 1972...I'm not a lawyer...but have some education in that arena.

                          Our goal is to protect the constitution...pure and simple....I wasn't happy protecting neo-nazis' free speech in Skokie, Illinois or the protection of Rush Limbaugh's medical records in his Oxy-contin abuse...but it is what it is...our Constitution is a sacred document....open to interpretation....ultimately by the Supreme Court. Alito is particularly disturbing because he authored the element of the "signing statement" that effectively destroys the co-equal branches of our government and grants authoritarian power to the executive branch.

                          The republicans will absolutely love the ACLU if we have another President Clinton or Obama or Gore...but we will continue to be steadfast in our goals to maintain three separate and equal branches regardless. of who sits in the White House.


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: becca111@...
                          Sent: Friday, December 1, 2006 7:03 PM
                          To: American-politics@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: A-P Re: ACLU Again Targeting Christians

                          Cricket...
                          If you think you can get by with comparing the ACLU to the terrorists
                          beheading someone or even suggesting that people from different cultures
                          in the US are guilty by association....then, perhaps you need to go
                          check with your Dr... to determine your mental clarity or lack there
                          of... and God forbid that you would be teaching anything if, in fact..
                          you ever did.

                          Bec



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                        • William Smith
                          I couldn t find the prelude to this trailer, but it sounds interesting. Not that I am for ACLU bashing, or character assainiation, but my perception of the
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 2, 2006
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                            I couldn't find the prelude to this trailer, but it
                            sounds interesting.

                            Not that I am for ACLU bashing, or character
                            assainiation, but my perception of the brief amount of
                            the posting I did read appears to slam a number of
                            nails right on the head.

                            Could you send me the posting you are referencing
                            Becca?

                            Thankyou.



                            --- Pope Urban ll <popes_mail@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > LMAO - thank you Becca for posting that because I
                            > was just about to tear into it. You might have
                            > saved me from breaking a finger nail - lol.
                            >
                            > Pope
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > becca111@... wrote:
                            > Cricket...
                            > If you think you can get by with comparing the ACLU
                            > to the terrorists
                            > beheading someone or even suggesting that people
                            > from different cultures
                            > in the US are guilty by association....then,
                            > perhaps you need to go
                            > check with your Dr... to determine your mental
                            > clarity or lack there
                            > of... and God forbid that you would be teaching
                            > anything if, in fact..
                            > you ever did.
                            >
                            > Bec
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > __________________________________________________
                            > Do You Yahoo!?
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                          • becca111@webtv.net
                            I ve already deleted the post Smith.... it was Crickets post...about the beheadings in Iraq.... She was trying to slam the Muslims..and myself....wondering
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 2, 2006
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                              I've already deleted the post Smith.... it was Crickets post...about the
                              beheadings in Iraq.... She was trying to slam the Muslims..and
                              myself....wondering where my head was...as well...all because I
                              suggested that we try to respect each other's religion.... Maybe we
                              could respect God.....maybe he has a hand in all religions.... I don't
                              think any one group owns God either..............

                              Bec
                            • William Smith
                              Sorry Bec; I probably jumped on the back of a trailer, lost the bearing. Probably everything is getting convoluted. New Post time perhaps? ...
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 4, 2006
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                                Sorry Bec; I probably jumped on the back of a
                                trailer, lost the bearing. Probably everything is
                                getting convoluted.


                                New Post time perhaps?




                                --- becca111@... wrote:

                                > I've already deleted the post Smith.... it was
                                > Crickets post...about the
                                > beheadings in Iraq.... She was trying to slam the
                                > Muslims..and
                                > myself....wondering where my head was...as
                                > well...all because I
                                > suggested that we try to respect each other's
                                > religion.... Maybe we
                                > could respect God.....maybe he has a hand in all
                                > religions.... I don't
                                > think any one group owns God either..............
                                >
                                > Bec
                                >
                                > > To: American-politics@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: William Smith <wmsmith64@...>
                                > Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 09:27:19 -0800 (PST)
                                > Subject: Re: A-P Re: ACLU Again Targeting Christians
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I couldn't find the prelude to this trailer, but it
                                > sounds interesting.
                                >
                                > Not that I am for ACLU bashing, or character
                                > assainiation, but my perception of the brief amount
                                > of
                                > the posting I did read appears to slam a number of
                                > nails right on the head.
                                >
                                > Could you send me the posting you are referencing
                                > Becca?
                                >
                                > Thankyou.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- Pope Urban ll <popes_mail@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                > > LMAO - thank you Becca for posting that because
                                > I
                                > > was just about to tear into it. You might have
                                > > saved me from breaking a finger nail - lol.
                                > >
                                > > Pope
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > becca111@... wrote:
                                >
                                > > Cricket...
                                > > If you think you can get by with comparing the
                                > ACLU
                                > > to the terrorists
                                > > beheading someone or even suggesting that people
                                > > from different cultures
                                > > in the US are guilty by association....then,
                                > > perhaps you need to go
                                > > check with your Dr... to determine your mental
                                > > clarity or lack there
                                > > of... and God forbid that you would be teaching
                                > > anything if, in fact..
                                > > you ever did.
                                > >
                                > > Bec
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
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                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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