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Re: Members or Customers?

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  • Scott Lemmer
    Dan,   I whole heartedly agree with you on members not customers.  As members we will feel a sense of belonging and camaraderie as opposed to just expecting
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 26, 2012
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      Dan,
       
      I whole heartedly agree with you on members not customers.  As members we will feel a sense of belonging and camaraderie as opposed to just expecting to be catered to as customers.

      Scott
      KD8RCI
    • Tom Smerk
      I agree. The club members would be like employees. The club no doubt serves some sort of purpose, and those served through the efforts of the club would be
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 26, 2012
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        I agree. The club members would be like "employees." The club no doubt serves some sort of purpose, and those served through the efforts of the club would be the "customers." They would take away something from the experience that was made possible by the "members." Some of the services provided by the "members" to the "customers" could include awareness and benefits of amateur radio; public service and emergency communications; amateur license classes and testing; assistance to other organizations such as Boy Scouts, Department of Forestry and National Weather Service; and participation in community events such as parades, field day, county fairs, etc. Most of the people affected by these services are not members of the club, therefore, they are "customers," and the benefit that they get from any of this would not be possible if it were not for the "members." So all of you members should be proud because of all the wonderful things you accomplish!

         


        From: AmateurRadioLeadership@yahoogroups.com [AmateurRadioLeadership@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of Dan Romanchik KB6NU [cwgeek@...]
        Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 10:17 AM
        To: AmateurRadioLeadership@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [AmateurRadioLeadership] Members or Customers?

         

        In the first workshop, there was some talk about treating amateur radio club members as if they were "customers."

        While I can see where this idea is coming from, I don't really think that this is the right approach. Customers pay their money and, in exchange, demand products or services. It's all one way. Members, theoretically at any rate, should expect to give something back and to be part of an organization, not just consume. I want members, not customers.

        What do you think?

        73!

        Dan KB6NU
        ----------------------------------------------------------
        CW Geek, Ham Radio Instructor
        Station Manager, WA2HOM at the Hands-On Museum (www.wa2hom.org)
        Read my ham radio blog at http://www.kb6nu.com

      • Norman Schklar
        You make good members by treating them as customers. They generally pay something to belong and they expect something in return. Once they are convinced
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 26, 2012
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          You make good members by treating them as customers.  They generally pay something to belong and they expect something in return.  Once they are convinced there is value they will become more interested and be  active members providing some of those same service you provided them.

          Norm wa4zxv

        • Bob Barton
          I agree with you Norman.   Robert KI4OZJ ________________________________ From: Norman Schklar To: AmateurRadioLeadership@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 26, 2012
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            I agree with you Norman.
             
            Robert KI4OZJ

            From: Norman Schklar <norman@...>
            To: AmateurRadioLeadership@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 4:19 PM
            Subject: [AmateurRadioLeadership] Re: Members or Customers?

             
            You make good members by treating them as customers.  They generally pay something to belong and they expect something in return.  Once they are convinced there is value they will become more interested and be  active members providing some of those same service you provided them.

            Norm wa4zxv



          • AndrewR
            Norm, I think you hit on a very good point. There has to be value. I wouldn t go to my club meetings or functions if I didn t find some value to doing it.
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 26, 2012
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              Norm, I think you hit on a very good point. There has to be value. I wouldn't go to my club meetings or functions if I didn't find some value to doing it. In the same vein, I recently went to another club's meeting and I may not go back because I didn't find very much value in going.

              In many of the conversations I've had with people that feel disenfranchised with their local club (via Twitter, G+, etc), they've explained a lot of stuff that ultimately shows that they don't find value in "wasting" their time going to those meetings.

              73
              Andrew AC8JO

              --- In AmateurRadioLeadership@yahoogroups.com, Norman Schklar <norman@...> wrote:
              >
              > You make good members by treating them as customers. They generally pay
              > something to belong and they expect something in return. Once they are
              > convinced there is value they will become more interested and be active
              > members providing some of those same service you provided them.
              >
              > Norm wa4zxv
              >
            • Richards
              While it should be a two way street... if at first ones fails to see any value in attending a meeting, he fails to stay around long enough to give any value
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 27, 2012
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                While it should be a two way street... if at first ones fails to see any
                value in attending a meeting, he fails to stay around long enough to
                give any value himself. Folks are loathe to give time, energy, money,
                dues, or talent if there is no draw in the first place.

                I think this is what the guys are driving at.

                If you attend a meeting and find nothing going on of interest... you
                just stop going. Leadership must, therefore, offer something of value
                or members quit coming. No one volunteers for a one -way street.
                Clubs with no positive activities, no educational programs, no social
                activities, wither and die, and volunteers (i.e., members who would
                otherwise contribute their time, talent, and money) move on to other
                pursuits.

                That is just MY take, anyway.

                =========================== K8JHR ====================


                On 4/26/2012 1:17 PM, Dan Romanchik KB6NU wrote:

                I don't really think that this is the right approach. Customers pay
                their money
                and, in exchange, demand products or services. It's all one way. Members,
                theoretically at any rate, should expect to give something back and to
                be part of an organization, not just consume. I want members, not customers.

                ______________________________________________________
              • John Myers, KD8MQ
                Hi everyone, Sorry for the late reply, but I wanted to through my 2 cents worth in. In our club, I take the viewpoint that we have to get them to the meeting
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 29, 2012
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                  Hi everyone,

                  Sorry for the late reply, but I wanted to through my 2 cents worth in.

                  In our club, I take the viewpoint that we have to get them to the meeting in the first place. Then, hopefully they'll have a good time and want to come back.

                  So we treat them as customers foremost, members second.

                  73,

                  John, KD8MQ, President,
                  Alliance (OH) ARC
                  www.w8lky.org

                  On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Dan Romanchik KB6NU <cwgeek@...> wrote:
                   

                  In the first workshop, there was some talk about treating amateur radio club members as if they were "customers."

                  While I can see where this idea is coming from, I don't really think that this is the right approach. Customers pay their money and, in exchange, demand products or services. It's all one way. Members, theoretically at any rate, should expect to give something back and to be part of an organization, not just consume. I want members, not customers.

                  What do you think?

                  73!

                  Dan KB6NU
                  ----------------------------------------------------------
                  CW Geek, Ham Radio Instructor
                  Station Manager, WA2HOM at the Hands-On Museum (www.wa2hom.org)
                  Read my ham radio blog at http://www.kb6nu.com


                • Ed Greany
                  I have tried various methods to attract attention to our monthly meetings. Some of our members drive a good distance (1 hr +) in commuting traffic hours so it
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 29, 2012
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                    I have tried various methods to attract attention to our monthly meetings. Some of our members drive a good distance (1 hr +) in commuting traffic hours so it is important that I present a good agenda.
                     
                    We have tried training sessions, show 'n tell, guest speakers, moving the meeting to various locations, and more. For the past two or three years I have used MONEY as the magnet.
                     
                    Every month I hold two drawings. At the break in the middle of our meeting I hold the first drawing which is for the benefit of those members who participated at the recent team event(s) last month. The pot begins at $50 and a name is pulled from a hat to determine the winner. The winner does not have to be present for this drawing. Every member's name is in the hat. Sometimes a name is pulled and that person did not assist with the event so the pot rolls over to the next month which will now be $100. Eventually someone wins when their name is pulled from the hat and they have worked the prior month event(s).
                     
                    At the conclusion of the meeting, I hold a second drawing. This one is for $20 and is an attendance drawing. The winner's name must be pulled from the hat and must be present to win. If no winner, the $20 rolls over to the next month.
                     
                    I understand some teams/clubs are not financially able to do this but the numbers can be modified downward also ir the winner can receive a gift instead of money similar to a door prize. Whatever will bring in the most members is the correct answer.
                     
                    73
                     
                    Ed, KB6DOL
                  • KB4T
                    Actually I see this question as Members AND Customers. I wonder how many ham radio clubs have leaders who are skilled in market research. I wonder how many ham
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 29, 2012
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                      Actually I see this question as Members AND Customers.

                      I wonder how many ham radio clubs have leaders who are skilled in market research. I wonder how many ham radio clubs have policies and practices in place that make visitors and (more importantly) new members feel truly welcome.

                      I wonder how many ham radio clubs have leaders that make an effort to understand why people consider joining or have joined the clubs they lead?

                      I suspect that few club leaders have a deep and abiding understanding of the vital human relations techniques needed to make visitors and new members feel truly welcome. Even less likely is a team of club members charged with doing all they can to make visitors and new members feel welcome...on a regular and nearly continuous basis. When members feel welcome they tend to be involved.

                      The club may be a special interest group or a general purpose club. It doesn't matter. As long as the members are treated with respect, courtesy and the club focuses on what interests the members, they will keep coming. Club members will keep coming if they feel they are part of something worthwhile.

                      Does your club elect the best and brightest among its membership? Or does your club settle for anyone who feels a power trip coming on and an easy way to enjoy it?

                      Does the leadership of the club have the respect of the membership? Or does the membership accept whatever the leadership does or says until some line is crossed?

                      Conduct your own unscientific survey(s). The more you understand about why people join your club, the better able the club will be to serve them. If you find that a large percentage of your membership expects something you aren't delivering, perhaps then you will understand why they don't participate or even show up for meetings.

                      Club leadership is more than a casual past time. Done right it approaches a full time job. Success comes when the effort is made to best understand what the membership wants or expects and ways are found to deliver.

                      If members are not inclined to be open, honest and forthcoming, perhaps there is a respect issue. If the leadership is not respected by the membership, then a change in leadership is in order assuming leadership is willing to give up the reins and let others step up.

                      If others don't want to step up, then it's likely club meetings are more an excuse to get out of the house/shack than to be a part of something bigger.

                      The key is to find out what's what. Members are very similar to customers. Some seek to reap a direct benefit from membership. Others are just happy to pal around with their peers. When a club's leadership knows all it can about the membership, there's less mystery and more satisfaction.

                      73,

                      Frank N. Haas KB4T
                      Florida
                    • K8TB
                      My wife (K8AJ) started a committee of one to notice who is a new person/visitor and she will go talk to them. She has the capability to data mine for their
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 30, 2012
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                        My wife (K8AJ) started a committee of one to notice who is a new person/visitor and she will go talk to them. She has the capability to data mine for their call, where they live, what part of ham radio they like, and of course, she will get their email.

                           On market research, for the last few months I have been using the FCC ULS to datamine. The first item I am looking for is licenses that are expiring in the next 90 days, so I can notify them. I have just started this, and I email those who I can, telephone those who I can, but I am going to switch over to post cards. Yes, post cards. Today, it seems like less than half of the people have home phones that are listed. And so many of the tech licenses are not active to where they will have an email listed on QRZ. I've identified 22 counties that our club (the Holland ARC) would be interested in. There seems to be about 700 licensed folks in those zip codes. An average of 70 will expire in any one year. One hundred post cards cost $ 50.00, and I will be asking the club for that amount about next month. I will make up a nice form to run the postcard through the printer that will have fill in blanks, but also contact emails and the ever important web site. 

                            The second item I want to mine, is, "In my clubs zip codes, who has moved in here, or received a license that we don't know about?" This takes some carefull parsing of data. I've thought about talking the ARRL at Dayton, to have them write the code once, and then have ARRL clubs dial in once amonth to retrieve these two items of concern.

                           BTW, the return emails and comments on the telephone are very interesting. Many folks are "out of the hobby", but they want to keep the license. And they are very thankful. It takes one person about 2-3 hours a month to handle our area. I have not called anyone who has moved into town yet. Gotta work on that.

                          Are all of these people going to now join my club? Nope. But it is a very standard business practice to reach out to as many people as possible to get more to "stick to the wall".

                        Also, make very sure you have at least two contact emails listed on your webs site. We used the same ones, and change out the forwarding each year. Side story, I think our club, the Holland ARC, is the only club on this list that gets requests for information on reciprocal licensing for the Netherlands!

                        So someone is working on marketing their club. It's only time !   :)

                                   tom K8TB



                        On 4/30/2012 2:19 AM, KB4T wrote:
                         

                        Actually I see this question as Members AND Customers.

                        I wonder how many ham radio clubs have leaders who are skilled in market research. I wonder how many ham radio clubs have policies and practices in place that make visitors and (more importantly) new members feel truly welcome.


                      • Richards
                        Hmmm... er... um.... sure... for enough money, I would travel to your meetings... How much can you offer, Ed ? ;-) I have seen similar schemes used to
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 2, 2012
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                          Hmmm... er... um.... sure... for enough money, I would
                          travel to your meetings... How much can you offer, Ed ? ;-)

                          I have seen similar schemes used to bolster attendance and participation
                          in charity clubs and organizations... with varied results. My personal
                          view is... if you gotta bribe folks to attend, and they come for the
                          chance to win the money... then they are not truly interested in the
                          program, itself. Conversely, if they are truly interested in the
                          program, they will spend money to attend.

                          Thus, real and sustained interest and participation depend
                          on the quality of the program offered.


                          Just MY take...

                          ------------------- K8JHR ------------------------



                          On 4/29/2012 9:43 PM, Ed Greany wrote:

                          > I have tried various methods to attract attention ...

                          For the past two or three years I have used MONEY as the magnet.

                          ________________________________________






                          .
                        • Richards
                          Dang right ! You gotta know your audience - and serve what they seek from membership. Not all members will be looking for the same thing... so you gotta
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 2, 2012
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                            Dang right !

                            You gotta know your audience - and serve what they seek from membership.
                            Not all members will be looking for the same thing... so you gotta
                            discern who wants what, and who can contribute what, depending on his
                            individual chemistry.

                            All organizations will have a certain percentage of doers, and watchers,
                            and talkers. The trick is to identify the latter two groups and induce
                            them to become doers.

                            What Tom says is a good start to figuring out who is who, and who wants
                            what. But a having a working "Friendship Committee" to make sure
                            everybody is welcome is a really good start.


                            ================== James - K8JHR ==================


                            On 4/30/2012 2:19 AM, KB4T wrote:

                            > I wonder how many ham radio clubs have leaders who are skilled in market research. I wonder how many ham radio clubs have policies and practices in place that make visitors and (more importantly) new members feel truly welcome.
                            >
                            > I wonder how many ham radio clubs have leaders that make an effort to understand why people consider joining or have joined the clubs they lead?
                            >
                            > I suspect that few club leaders have a deep and abiding understanding of the vital human relations techniques needed to make visitors and new members feel truly welcome. Even less likely is a team of club members charged with doing all they can to make visitors and new members feel welcome...on a regular and nearly continuous basis. When members feel welcome they tend to be involved.
                            >
                            > The club may be a special interest group or a general purpose club. It doesn't matter. As long as the members are treated with respect, courtesy and the club focuses on what interests the members, they will keep coming. Club members will keep coming if they feel they are part of something worthwhile.
                            >
                            > Does your club elect the best and brightest among its membership? Or does your club settle for anyone who feels a power trip coming on and an easy way to enjoy it?
                            >
                            > Does the leadership of the club have the respect of the membership? Or does the membership accept whatever the leadership does or says until some line is crossed?
                            >
                            > Conduct your own unscientific survey(s). The more you understand about why people join your club, the better able the club will be to serve them. If you find that a large percentage of your membership expects something you aren't delivering, perhaps then you will understand why they don't participate or even show up for meetings.
                            >
                            > Club leadership is more than a casual past time. Done right it approaches a full time job. Success comes when the effort is made to best understand what the membership wants or expects and ways are found to deliver.
                            >
                            > If members are not inclined to be open, honest and forthcoming, perhaps there is a respect issue. If the leadership is not respected by the membership, then a change in leadership is in order assuming leadership is willing to give up the reins and let others step up.
                            >
                            > If others don't want to step up, then it's likely club meetings are more an excuse to get out of the house/shack than to be a part of something bigger.
                            >
                            > The key is to find out what's what. Members are very similar to customers. Some seek to reap a direct benefit from membership. Others are just happy to pal around with their peers. When a club's leadership knows all it can about the membership, there's less mystery and more satisfaction.
                            >
                            > 73,
                            >
                            > Frank N. Haas KB4T
                            > Florida
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Ed Greany
                            I don t consider it a bribe. My primary drawing is for participation in civic events. Without the manpower we can t participate in the events and do it
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 2, 2012
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                              I don't consider it a bribe. My primary drawing is for participation in civic events. Without the manpower we can't participate in the events and do it justice. We also consider working civic events as disaster preparedness using our radios.
                               
                              How often did you have a callout and Oops, dead battery. Now where did I put that HT? I can't find my speaker/mic. Honey, do you know where my AA Pack is? What frequency did they tell me to meet on at that meeting two months ago? Excuses, excuses but the job can't wait for excuses. Lives may depend on it.
                               
                              So, money talks! If you work an event, you have a chance of $50 in your pocket. That would pay for gas to and from the event if nothing else.
                               
                              The attendance drawing is also not a bribe. We have most of our members traveling upwards of an hour on the freeway to attend. Wnning the attendance drawing of $20 (minimum) would surely help with the gas bill also. It is merely an incentive.
                               
                              Of course we have other activities too to attract members to attend our meetings.
                               
                              Meanwhile, I've tossed out my 2-cents so what is your answer to get members to your meeting. Oh, and Richards, it's a chance of winning $20 if you attend.
                               
                              73
                               
                              Ed

                              From: Richards <jruing@...>
                              To: AmateurRadioLeadership@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:24 PM
                              Subject: Re: [AmateurRadioLeadership] Bribes or Rewards?

                               

                              Hmmm... er... um.... sure... for enough money, I would
                              travel to your meetings... How much can you offer, Ed ? ;-)

                              I have seen similar schemes used to bolster attendance and participation
                              in charity clubs and organizations... with varied results. My personal
                              view is... if you gotta bribe folks to attend, and they come for the
                              chance to win the money... then they are not truly interested in the
                              program, itself. Conversely, if they are truly interested in the
                              program, they will spend money to attend.

                              Thus, real and sustained interest and participation depend
                              on the quality of the program offered.

                              Just MY take...

                              ------------------- K8JHR ------------------------

                              On 4/29/2012 9:43 PM, Ed Greany wrote:

                              > I have tried various methods to attract attention ...

                              For the past two or three years I have used MONEY as the magnet.

                              ________________________________________

                              .


                            • Richards
                              HEY TOM.... why not get with the outfit in the Netherlands and see about making the two organizations SISTER CLUBS ? It does not have to get fancy or
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 2, 2012
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                                HEY TOM.... why not get with the outfit in the Netherlands
                                and see about making the two organizations SISTER CLUBS ?

                                It does not have to get fancy or involved... but it might be
                                fun to have a Sister Club - and it might make referring the
                                errant questions to the right place... who knows... they might
                                be getting questions about YOUR club.

                                If you want help on it... just ask and I will pitch in.

                                =============== James - K8JHR ======================

                                On 4/30/2012 6:55 PM, K8TB wrote:

                                > >
                                Side story, I think our club, the Holland ARC, is the only club on
                                > this list that gets requests for information on reciprocal licensing for
                                > the Netherlands!
                                >
                                ____________________________________________________


                                ..
                              • Richards
                                ... OK... let s not call it a bribe ... Instead, we can euphemistic dub it a motivator or incentive as you suggest ... But, a rose by any other name is
                                Message 15 of 16 , May 3, 2012
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                                  On 5/3/2012 2:32 AM, Ed Greany wrote:

                                  > I don't consider it a bribe. .... It is merely an incentive.


                                  OK... let's not call it a "bribe"...

                                  Instead, we can euphemistic dub it a "motivator"
                                  or "incentive" as you suggest ... But, a rose by any
                                  other name is till a rose. And it seems you persist
                                  in claiming you must offer such an incentive in order
                                  to muster sufficient troops to complete the task.

                                  Sure... let's call it an "incentive" - but it does not
                                  change the substance of your position - you say you
                                  gotta pay 'em to get 'em to participate.

                                  I see this as a distinction without a difference.


                                  > Of course we have other activities too to attract members to attend our
                                  > meetings.
                                  > Meanwhile, I've tossed out my 2-cents so what is your answer to get
                                  > members to your meeting. Oh, and Richards, it's a chance of winning $20
                                  > if you attend.

                                  Well... the prospect of winning $20 does not make it
                                  for me. When working, I earned that in about 6 minutes,
                                  so you gotta do better than that ! ;-)

                                  But I might come if the meeting was INTERESTING, and
                                  if you offered an interesting program and it appeared
                                  worth my time to attend. The prospect of ... maybe...
                                  possibly... winning the 50/50 drawing does not work
                                  for me. Besides, the better the incentive works, the
                                  worse the odds of winning becomes. ;-)

                                  I am likely more cynical than most. I don't think
                                  you can effectively retain members in any organization
                                  unless they are (or become) personally invested in
                                  ITS MISSION. By this I mean members my be personally
                                  interested in the organization's objective - which
                                  gives meaning and purpose to its activities. If members
                                  are not personally invested in the mission, its programs,
                                  its activities... they will quit. If they are not truly
                                  interested in its MISSION and PURPOSE, then the
                                  organization will wither and die. And it SHOULD...
                                  why would anyone maintain a club and pursue a cause
                                  nobody else cared about?

                                  Of course, I am NOT saying anything about YOUR club
                                  in particular... I am speaking about clubs in general.
                                  If members are not excited about what is going on,
                                  then we would expect them to quit.

                                  I think you are putting too much stock in your incentive
                                  program. I doubt the prospect of winning a tank of gas
                                  is sufficient motivation to keep members involved for
                                  any appreciable time. If I am mistaken about this, you
                                  must, ipso facto, admit your programs and activities fail
                                  to generate sufficient interest to carry the day on their
                                  own, and concede they only come for the prospect of
                                  winning the prize.

                                  Consequently, I would minimize the incentive program,
                                  in favor of improving program quality, scheduling more
                                  interesting and appealing activities, and better promotion
                                  of the mission. I would be embarrassed to say members
                                  of my club remain active, not because they are invested
                                  in its mission and purpose, but for the prospect of winning
                                  a bit of cash.

                                  I think you're selling your club short and suspect your
                                  programs and activities are more interesting and appealing
                                  than you let on. I suspect your members are more
                                  invested in its mission and purpose then you let on.

                                  If not... and you are really claiming you retain members
                                  or they are motivated to participate, solely because of
                                  a cash incentive... then you should fold your tent and
                                  go home. If they are really doing it for the money...
                                  well... you get the point.

                                  What would I do... I would be following Tom B's advice
                                  and getting to know my audience better.


                                  Just MY take. Your mileage may vary.

                                  Hey... this is a GOOD discussion in any case ! This really hits the
                                  heart of the matter - just how DO we motivate the troops to serve ?

                                  ---------------- K8JHR --------------------------------------------
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