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Re: Share Your Ideas!

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  • Fred
    I believe every electric power plant should also be making ethanol fuel. One of the primary problems of electricity is excess heat. Why not put it to use
    Message 1 of 14 , May 31 5:25 PM
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      I believe every electric power plant should also be making ethanol
      fuel. One of the primary problems of electricity is excess heat. Why
      not put it to use making fuels, rather than killing reefs?

      fred
    • gumsh0e
      ... After the steam has passed through the turbine-generator, most of the enthalpy has been sucked out. There isn t enough useful energy left in the remaining
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 1, 2006
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        --- In All-Energy@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <imageiteverywhere@...> wrote:
        >
        > I believe every electric power plant should also be making ethanol
        > fuel. One of the primary problems of electricity is excess heat. Why
        > not put it to use making fuels, rather than killing reefs?
        >
        > fred

        After the steam has passed through the turbine-generator, most of the
        enthalpy has been sucked out. There isn't enough useful energy left in
        the remaining low grade steam to be put to much practical use,
        including for ethanol production. Some power plants provide "process
        steam" for other industries, such as paper mills, but that is steam
        that has been diverted for those purposes in lieu of generating
        electricity. Power plants could provide process steam for ethanol
        plants as well. But ethanol plants would release a corresponding amount
        of their own waste heat of course. You can't cheat the Laws of
        Thermodynamics. It would be hard to imagine how ethanol production
        could have any effect on reef health given that ethanol plants are
        generally located where the corn or switchgrass or whatever is
        produced, which means such plants would generally be found far from teh
        coasts where there are no reefs.

        Lenny
      • Fred
        ... In arab countries, they co-generate fresh water though distillation from their electric power generating plants. Please explain why an electric plant can
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 1, 2006
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          > After the steam has passed through the turbine-generator, most of the
          > enthalpy has been sucked out. There isn't enough useful energy left in
          > the remaining low grade steam to be put to much practical use,
          > including for ethanol production.

          In arab countries, they co-generate fresh water though distillation
          from their electric power generating plants. Please explain why an
          electric plant can distil water and not ethanol?

          fred
        • gumsh0e
          ... the ... in ... As I understand it, an ethanol distiller requires temperatures around 166 degrees F. In a conventional power plant, steam exits the turbine
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 1, 2006
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            --- In All-Energy@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <imageiteverywhere@...> wrote:
            >
            > > After the steam has passed through the turbine-generator, most of
            the
            > > enthalpy has been sucked out. There isn't enough useful energy left
            in
            > > the remaining low grade steam to be put to much practical use,
            > > including for ethanol production.
            >
            > In arab countries, they co-generate fresh water though distillation
            > from their electric power generating plants. Please explain why an
            > electric plant can distil water and not ethanol?
            >
            > fred

            As I understand it, an ethanol distiller requires temperatures around
            166 degrees F. In a conventional power plant, steam exits the turbine
            into a condenser that is operated at a vacuum to maximize overall
            thermal efficiency. Whereas the saturation temperature of water at
            atmospheric conditions is about 212 degrees F, the saturation
            temperature in the condenser is only around 100 degrees F, too low to
            be of use in an ethanol distiller.

            A co-generation plant is different. Typically they use combustion
            turbines (essentially jet engines). The exhaust gases are very hot.
            Rather than let that heat go to waste, in a cogeneration plant the
            exhaust is put to work doing something useful like boiling water in a
            secondary loop to turn a steam turbine and generate more electricity or
            to distill fresh water (or ethanol).

            Lenny
          • Fred
            ... Last i looked, 212 was greater than 166. fred
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 1, 2006
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              > As I understand it, an ethanol distiller requires temperatures around
              > 166 degrees F. In a conventional power plant, steam exits the turbine
              > into a condenser that is operated at a vacuum to maximize overall
              > thermal efficiency. Whereas the saturation temperature of water at
              > atmospheric conditions is about 212 degrees F,


              Last i looked, 212 was greater than 166.

              fred
            • gumsh0e
              ... I know. I only mentioned 212 degrees as a point of comparison between the temperature of saturated water/steam at atmospheric conditions that people
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 1, 2006
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                --- In All-Energy@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <imageiteverywhere@...> wrote:
                >
                > > As I understand it, an ethanol distiller requires temperatures around
                > > 166 degrees F. In a conventional power plant, steam exits the turbine
                > > into a condenser that is operated at a vacuum to maximize overall
                > > thermal efficiency. Whereas the saturation temperature of water at
                > > atmospheric conditions is about 212 degrees F,
                >
                >
                > Last i looked, 212 was greater than 166.
                >
                > fred
                >
                <sigh> I know. I only mentioned 212 degrees as a point of comparison
                between the temperature of saturated water/steam at atmospheric
                conditions that people are familiar with and the saturation
                temperature of water in a vacuum. As I stated in the post, the steam
                exiting the turbine is only around 100 degrees F.

                Lenny
              • Pete Ashman
                I’m not positive about this but weren’t the same people claiming GW today, were claiming GC(Global Cooling(A new Ice Age(I hear Ice Age II is better than
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 2, 2006
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                  I’m not positive about this but weren’t the same people claiming GW today, were claiming GC(Global Cooling(A new Ice Age(I hear Ice Age II is better than the first) 20 years ago or so.

                   

                  So are they really sure this isn’t just part of the natural cycles.

                   

                  I have heard that we have had real bad hurricanes as long as 100 years ago.  Wonder if they cried wolf

                  back then.

                   

                  Some people even claim that George ‘W’ Bush is doing this single handedly.

                   

                  What if the whole in the ozone is like an exhaust for the hot gases.  I don’t know I’m just saying.

                   

                  Just something to think about.

                   

                  Do not let your heart be troubled.

                   

                  Let’s all get horses, and stop driving our cars.  That would be a great start.

                   

                  Pete Ashman

                  TheKingdomEntrepreneurs.com

                  610-971-0589 Home Office

                  610-329-3128 Mobile

                   

                   

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:All-Energy@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of altciv
                  Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:56 AM
                  To: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [All-E] Share Your Ideas!

                   

                  Hi Folks –

                  "Be the change you want the world to make"  was said by Ghandi (so I
                  hear).  I want to demonstrate this in my life and in my communications.

                  Consequently,  I need your ideas and suggestions to make my Web site
                  on ALTERNATIVES to Global Warming (GW) and Climate Change (CC) a site
                  that is:
                               New and Different
                        Immediately Useful
                        Grassroots Relevant,  worldwide

                  Unless people,  with or without government help,  act very soon,  GW
                  and CC we will reach a tipping point and will be upon us.  Worldwide!

                  Unless people,  with or without government help,  act very soon,
                  shortages of petroleum may cause disastrous energy,  economic,
                  political,  and even military consequences.  America and other Western
                  nations!

                  Member of this and other selected Discussion Groups hold keys to
                  slowing,  stopping,  and reversing GW and CC.  These same keys can
                  also have far-reaching beneficial effects around the world.

                  Please share your ideas and information with others.  Contact one or
                  all of the following:
                          groups.yahoo.com/group/alternativesforyou  ("Double posting"
                              is fine.)
                          altciv.blogspot.com
                          alternativesforyou.org.   (The Web site is under      
                              "re-construction.")     

                  Namaste,

                  Bill Clift
                  New Freedom Fellowship
                  newfree@...








                • the_maniacal_engineer
                  ... ... handedly. ... ******************************* I am sure that he is in the employ of the queen, the gettys, the vatican, the rothchilds, and
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 2, 2006
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                    --- In All-Energy@yahoogroups.com, "Pete Ashman" <PeteAshman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    <snip>
                    >
                    > Some people even claim that George `W' Bush is doing this single
                    handedly.
                    >
                    *******************************
                    I am sure that he is in the employ of the queen, the gettys, the
                    vatican, the rothchilds, and colonel sanders- the evil pentavirate
                    that meets semi-annually in a secret country estate in colorado known
                    as "the meadows"
                    *******************************
                    >
                    > Let's all get horses, and stop driving our cars. That would be a great
                    > start.

                    *******************************
                    Except that horses and other livestock poop out methane, which is an
                    even more potent gas than CO2 - I say we need to harvest and burn all
                    the benthic methane hydrates we can find before they find they find
                    their way into the atmosphere as methane. It will be a patriotic duty
                    to leave the hot water running, or leave CNG cars idling all day
                    *******************************
                    >
                    > Pete Ashman
                    > TheKingdomEntrepreneurs.com
                    > 610-971-0589 Home Office
                    > 610-329-3128 Mobile
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    >
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