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Re: [All-E] Time to strike a blow for energy efficiency

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  • Michael DeWolf
    ... we should be able to get along without. Even in out food supply. We don t need 20 different brands of the same item sitting on the shelf of the stores. The
    Message 1 of 32 , Feb 2, 2004
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      > Also a lot of energy goes into the manufacture of junk items that
      we should be able to get along without. Even in out food supply. We
      don't need 20 different brands of the same item sitting on the shelf
      of the stores.

      The problem with reducing the number of brands and the amount of
      consumption is that all the people who make these things will loose
      their job.

      Michael Dewolf
    • pulsed_ignition
      Change happens slowly because of all the resistance placed on those trying to trigger change. ... and in ... understanding how ... using more ... do. The ...
      Message 32 of 32 , Feb 12, 2004
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        Change happens slowly because of all the resistance placed on those
        trying to trigger change.
        --- In All-Energy@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk <hakan@h...> wrote:
        >
        > Robert,
        >
        > In fact, it is time to strike several blows for energy efficiency
        and in
        > several ways of how we do things. I have difficulties in
        understanding how
        > we got to a situation, where more than 98% of energy users are
        using more
        > than 50% of energy in domestic use, than is needed for what they
        do. The
        > same goes for the transport sector. The industrial sector is in the
        same
        > situation, according to experts that I know, but I am myself not
        competent
        > enough in this field to make a definitive statement. It is savings
        that are
        > very large and by changing the way we do things, with non or little
        extra
        > cost. It is no austerity or pain needed, no sacrifices.
        >
        > It is actually very difficult to do things so bad, that we can use
        so much
        > energy as we do. I have not figured out yet, if it is a conspiracy
        by
        > energy suppliers, or just plain and common stupidity.
        >
        > Hakan
        > http://energysavingnow.com/
        >
        >
        >
        > At 04:40 07/02/2004, you wrote:
        > >Like I said, fossil fuels are subsidized from top
        > >to bottom. If we had a truly free market, their
        > >price would be much higher than it is presently.
        > >The effect of the subsidies and etc is to distort
        > >the marketplace and give false price signals. And
        > >yes, that means that I think that the corporation
        > >is an anti-free market, coercive, statist economic
        > >institution that is inimical to free and fair
        > >marketplaces.
        > >
        > >The fact that other businesses/corporations are
        > >also subsidized does not mitigate the problems
        > >caused in the fossil fuel marketplaces by
        > >government subsidies distorting the information
        > >that people need to make accurate decisions.
        > >
        > >As to the correlation between US military force
        > >and the price of oil, hmmm, the first Iraqi oil
        > >was followed by a decade of absurdly low oil
        > >prices. That goes way back, to France and England
        > >divvying up the Turkish Empire.
        > >
        > >As to the alleged constitutional justification for
        > >the Interstate Highway System, you'll going to
        > >have to cite chapter and verse because I ain't
        > >seein' it. "Post roads" can hardly mean the
        > >interstate highway system, since even at the time
        > >it began to be built, most mail was moving either
        > >by plane or train, and where it went on the roads
        > >was not where the interstate highway system was
        > >going. Interstate highways were and are a subsidy
        > >to the trucking industry. In Oklahoma, the tax on
        > >diesel fuel is less than the tax on gasoline. And
        > >while trucks pay more than automobiles, they do
        > >not pay more in proportion to the damage they do
        > >to the roads.
        > >
        > >The present fossil fuel marketplace is coercive
        > >fascist economics at its best.
        > >
        > >And therein lies our doom.
        > >
        > >Robert Waldrop, OKC
        > >got a local food and energy system?
        > >www.oklahomafood.org +
        > >www.energyconservationinfo.org
        > >
        > >----- Original Message ----- > --- In
        > >All-Energy@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Waldrop"
        > ><rmwj@s...> wrote:
        > > > > Government subsidies for fossil fuels include:
        > > > >
        > > > > 1. the corporation legal structure.
        > > > **************************
        > > > isnt this for ALL corporations. If you start a
        > >green enrgy company,
        > > > or a trash recycling coompany, or a euthanasia
        > >company, or a company
        > > > that sells flocked ceramic dogs playing poker,
        > >you can also have the
        > > > benefits of the corporate legal structure.
        > > > *********************************
        > > > > 2. lower tax rates on corporations than on
        > > > > private individuals.
        > > > ************** see above *********************
        > > > > 3. research, development money and activities
        > > > **********************************************
        > > > Yep, only standard oil, bechtel, and enron are
        > >allowed to use R&D tax
        > > > advantages - not.
        > > > **********************************************
        > > > > 4. US military action to secure foreign
        > >sources
        > > > > of oil
        > > > ***********************************************
        > > > like the way that al of the iraqi oil fields are
        > >now in the control of
        > > > the US military and halliburton is pumping it
        > >for free. Oh wait... you
        > > > mean the oil belongs to the iraqis? and any US
        > >companies who traffic
        > > > in oil buy it on the open markey? ... nevermind
        > > > ***********************************************
        > > > > 5. Licenses to pollute.
        > > > ****************************
        > > > huh?
        > > > ****************************
        > > > > 6. interstate highway system
        > > > ***********************************************
        > > > huh? Eisenhower started this after WWII in which
        > >he saw how well it
        > > > served german strategic needs. If you actually
        > >read the constitution
        > > > (available free online) you will see that roads,
        > >canals, and posts are
        > > > some of the few governmental powers that are
        > >explicitly given to the
        > > > govt. the interstate system SAVES fuel by
        > >streamlining traffic.
        > > > ***********************************************
        > > > > 7. road taxes apportioned so that truck
        > >freight
        > > > > pays less than its true cost
        > > > ************************************************
        > > > truck tires are taxed more than passenger car
        > >tires. Trucks pay the
        > > > same fuel taxes that others pay. Vehicle
        > >registration fees? I am very
        > > > sure, given the way that politicians and
        > >bureaucrats universally
        > > > behave, that they have set the level of taxes to
        > >maximize revenues to
        > > > the state. Set the taxes too high and you will
        > >get less transport,
        > > > less economic activity, and people moving out to
        > >other states.
        > > >
        > >**************************************************
        > >*
        > > >
        > >**************************************************
        > >*
        > > > > 8. big piles of sweetheart deals for oil
        > > > > companies
        > > > > 9. legislated rights of way for pipelines
        > > >
        > >**************************************************
        > > > ... and roads. and powerlines. and schools. and
        > >parks. and landfills.
        > > > and aqueducts. and any other utility or public
        > >work.
        > > > so what.
        > > >
        > >**************************************************
        > >*
        > > > > 10. legislation mandating that subsurface
        > >mineral
        > > > > rights take precedence over surface
        > >uses/rights.
        > > > >
        > > > > those are just off the top of my head, I am
        > >sure
        > > > > there are others, as I think of them I will
        > >send
        > > > > them along. There are various studies which
        > > > > indicate that if all these costs were included
        > >in
        > > > > the retail price of gasoline, it would sell
        > >for $5
        > > > > to $15/gallon.
        > > > >
        > > > > Robert Waldrop, okc
        > > > > got a local food and energy system?
        > > > > www.oklahomafood.org |
        > > > > www.energyconservationinfo.org
        > > > >
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