## RE: [All-E] magnet motor,would ratios make it possible to overcome the magnetic stop points?

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• A basic rule of thumb - ask where the energy is coming from. A motor, or any other sort of moving device, has to expend energy to overcome friction. Where is
Message 1 of 10 , May 1, 2008
A basic rule of thumb - ask where the energy is coming from.

A motor, or any other sort of moving device, has to expend energy to overcome friction. Where is that energy coming from? The magnetic wheel stops because it runs out of kinetic energy - the energy has been used overcoming friction. It stops by the "repulsive piece" because that's the point where it needs most energy.

It's the equivalent of a car that has run out of fuel stopping at the foot of the hill. It's not going to stop half-way down the hill, now, is it? And it's not going to start climbing that hill until you put more fuel in, no matter what gear the car is in.

Of course you could envisage a device in which extra kinetic energy is stored and gives the wheel a push when it comes to the repulsive piece. But you'll have to give it that extra energy in the first place and the wheel will then stop when that extra energy is used up.

People have been trying to make perpetual motion machines out of magnets on wheels for hundreds of years (really! - there are records from the middle ages). There is some interesting stuff on the internet about it. But whatever ideas you get, always ask that question - where is the energy coming from?

Prune

-----Original Message-----
From: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:All-Energy@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of boxa588
Sent: 30 April 2008 21:48
To: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [All-E] magnet motor,would ratios make it possible to overcome the magnetic stop points?

i think we have all seen magnetic motors, alot of times they go all the
way around until they get to the repulsive piece which then stops the
continuous movement. i was wondering what would happen if we were to
use a ratio where the other magnets will push a 2 to 1 over the
repulsive area of the other magnets, then once its over the hump it
will be 2 to 1 over the others. the more wheels will make better ratios
like 8 to 1 ! the magnetic wheels would be set up at different
rotations, where some would be at there most forceful push and some at
their weakest or repulsive points.

so what does everyone think,it seems possible if you think of the
ratios aspect of it, it would take about 5 or more wheels on the same
shaft to make a better ratio set up.

heres a video that shows what i am saying, its someone elses but if he
makes a few more wheels it would seem that it would end up spinning
continuously.

-boxa888

• Maybe the second law of thermodynamics should be printed on the Dollar bill as a watermark. Maybe instead of In God we trust , it should say There s no such
Message 2 of 10 , May 1, 2008
Maybe the second law of thermodynamics should be printed on the Dollar bill as a watermark.

Maybe instead of "In God we trust", it should say "There's no such thing as a free lunch".

Mike

Prune wrote:

A basic rule of thumb - ask where the energy is coming from.

A motor, or any other sort of moving device, has to expend energy to overcome friction. Where is that energy coming from? The magnetic wheel stops because it runs out of kinetic energy - the energy has been used overcoming friction. It stops by the "repulsive piece" because that's the point where it needs most energy.

It's the equivalent of a car that has run out of fuel stopping at the foot of the hill. It's not going to stop half-way down the hill, now, is it? And it's not going to start climbing that hill until you put more fuel in, no matter what gear the car is in.

Of course you could envisage a device in which extra kinetic energy is stored and gives the wheel a push when it comes to the repulsive piece. But you'll have to give it that extra energy in the first place and the wheel will then stop when that extra energy is used up.

People have been trying to make perpetual motion machines out of magnets on wheels for hundreds of years (really! - there are records from the middle ages). There is some interesting stuff on the internet about it. But whatever ideas you get, always ask that question - where is the energy coming from?

Prune

[snip]
.

• Yes. It would make a great deal more sense to me - I can see the second law of thermodynamics at work all around me but I m blowed if I m going to trust a
Message 3 of 10 , May 1, 2008
Yes. It would make a great deal more sense to me - I can see the second law of thermodynamics at work all around me but I'm blowed if I'm going to trust a mythical entity.

Out of curiosity I've just opened my wallet, blown away the dust, shooed out some moths, and glanced at the battered and lonely five pound note in there. As I thought, no religious sentiments on good old sterling and I'm pretty sure that euro notes have no suggestion of obeyance to the supernatural either, but the notes of both currencies do from time to time acknowledge the achievements of scientists, engineers, medics and other prominent contributors to human wellbeing. As is right and proper.

Presumably the god referred to on the American note (bill?) is Mammon? If not, I don't see the point.

-----Original Message-----
From: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:All-Energy@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Michael Redler
Sent: 01 May 2008 12:50
To: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [All-E] magnet motor,would ratios make it possible to overcome the magnetic stop points?

Maybe instead of "In God we trust", it should say "There's no such thing as a free lunch".

Mike

.

• The American God is decided by the loudest preacher. At the moment, it s a toss up between Southern Baptists, Mormons and evangelists (i.e. Pat Robertson).
Message 4 of 10 , May 1, 2008
The "American God" is decided by the loudest preacher. At the moment, it's a toss up between Southern Baptists, Mormons and evangelists (i.e. Pat Robertson).

Some interpretations are pretty scary too. Google "apocalyptic millenialist" and you'll know what I mean.

....but I digress.

Mike

Prune wrote:

Yes. It would make a great deal more sense to me - I can see the second law of thermodynamics at work all around me but I'm blowed if I'm going to trust a mythical entity.

Out of curiosity I've just opened my wallet, blown away the dust, shooed out some moths, and glanced at the battered and lonely five pound note in there. As I thought, no religious sentiments on good old sterling and I'm pretty sure that euro notes have no suggestion of obeyance to the supernatural either, but the notes of both currencies do from time to time acknowledge the achievements of scientists, engineers, medics and other prominent contributors to human wellbeing. As is right and proper.

Presumably the god referred to on the American note (bill?) is Mammon? If not, I don't see the point.

-----Original Message-----
From: All-Energy@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:All- Energy@yahoogrou ps.com]On Behalf Of Michael Redler
Sent: 01 May 2008 12:50
To: All-Energy@yahoogro ups.com
Subject: Re: [All-E] magnet motor,would ratios make it possible to overcome the magnetic stop points?

Maybe instead of "In God we trust", it should say "There's no such thing as a free lunch".

Mike

.

• Could magnetism replace gasoline in the piston chamber,, using opposite poles to move the pistons,,, some sort of artificial energy source say solar can
Message 5 of 10 , May 1, 2008
Could magnetism replace gasoline in the piston
chamber,, using opposite poles to move the pistons,,,
some sort of artificial energy source say solar can
provide the electricity to facilitate the magnetic
force,,, I have been thinking of a number of hybrids
can't put it all down here but perhaps someone can
move this one forward a little bit
--- Prune <prune.etna@...> wrote:

> A basic rule of thumb - ask where the energy is
> coming from.
>
> A motor, or any other sort of moving device, has to
> expend energy to
> overcome friction. Where is that energy coming from?
> The magnetic wheel
> stops because it runs out of kinetic energy - the
> energy has been used
> overcoming friction. It stops by the "repulsive
> piece" because that's the
> point where it needs most energy.
>
> It's the equivalent of a car that has run out of
> fuel stopping at the foot
> of the hill. It's not going to stop half-way down
> the hill, now, is it? And
> it's not going to start climbing that hill until you
> put more fuel in, no
> matter what gear the car is in.
>
> Of course you could envisage a device in which extra
> kinetic energy is
> stored and gives the wheel a push when it comes to
> the repulsive piece. But
> you'll have to give it that extra energy in the
> first place and the wheel
> will then stop when that extra energy is used up.
>
> People have been trying to make perpetual motion
> machines out of magnets on
> wheels for hundreds of years (really! - there are
> records from the middle
> ages). There is some interesting stuff on the
> whatever ideas you get, always ask that question -
> where is the energy
> coming from?
>
> Prune
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:All-Energy@yahoogroups.com]On
> Behalf Of boxa588
> Sent: 30 April 2008 21:48
> To: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [All-E] magnet motor,would ratios make it
> possible to overcome
> the magnetic stop points?
>
>
> i think we have all seen magnetic motors, alot of
> times they go all the
> way around until they get to the repulsive piece
> which then stops the
> continuous movement. i was wondering what would
> happen if we were to
> use a ratio where the other magnets will push a 2
> to 1 over the
> repulsive area of the other magnets, then once its
> over the hump it
> will be 2 to 1 over the others. the more wheels
> will make better ratios
> like 8 to 1 ! the magnetic wheels would be set up
> at different
> rotations, where some would be at there most
> forceful push and some at
> their weakest or repulsive points.
>
> so what does everyone think,it seems possible if
> you think of the
> ratios aspect of it, it would take about 5 or more
> wheels on the same
> shaft to make a better ratio set up.
>
> heres a video that shows what i am saying, its
> someone elses but if he
> makes a few more wheels it would seem that it
> would end up spinning
> continuously.
>
> -boxa888
>
>
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
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• No. Gasoline is an energy source, magnetism isn t. If you mean using solar power to power an electromagnetic motor it s been done - they race such vehicles
Message 6 of 10 , May 2, 2008
No. Gasoline is an energy source, magnetism isn't.

If you mean using solar power to power an electromagnetic motor it's been done - they race such vehicles across Australia every year.

If you mean use magnets instead of con-rods, why? where's the gain?

I see that so often - "I've had this wonderful idea but can't make it work, could someone else take it forward?". Apply for venture capital. Go on Dragon's Den. Get off your butt.

-----Original Message-----
From: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:All-Energy@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of lewis frank
Sent: 01 May 2008 22:58
To: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [All-E] magnet motor,would ratios make it possible to overcome the magnetic stop points? HOW ABOUT MAGNETS AT OPPOSITE ENDS OF PISTONS

Could magnetism replace gasoline in the piston
chamber,, using opposite poles to move the pistons,,,
some sort of artificial energy source say solar can
provide the electricity to facilitate the magnetic
force,,, I have been thinking of a number of hybrids
can't put it all down here but perhaps someone can
move this one forward a little bit
--- Prune <prune.etna@ntlworld .com> wrote:

> A basic rule of thumb - ask where the energy is
> coming from.
>
> A motor, or any other sort of moving device, has to
> expend energy to
> overcome friction. Where is that energy coming from?
> The magnetic wheel
> stops because it runs out of kinetic energy - the
> energy has been used
> overcoming friction. It stops by the "repulsive
> piece" because that's the
> point where it needs most energy.
>
> It's the equivalent of a car that has run out of
> fuel stopping at the foot
> of the hill. It's not going to stop half-way down
> the hill, now, is it? And
> it's not going to start climbing that hill until you
> put more fuel in, no
> matter what gear the car is in.
>
> Of course you could envisage a device in which extra
> kinetic energy is
> stored and gives the wheel a push when it comes to
> the repulsive piece. But
> you'll have to give it that extra energy in the
> first place and the wheel
> will then stop when that extra energy is used up.
>
> People have been trying to make perpetual motion
> machines out of magnets on
> wheels for hundreds of years (really! - there are
> records from the middle
> ages). There is some interesting stuff on the
> whatever ideas you get, always ask that question -
> where is the energy
> coming from?
>
> Prune
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: All-Energy@yahoogro ups.com
> [mailto:All-Energy@yahoogro ups.com]On
> Behalf Of boxa588
> Sent: 30 April 2008 21:48
> To: All-Energy@yahoogro ups.com
> Subject: [All-E] magnet motor,would ratios make it
> possible to overcome
> the magnetic stop points?
>
>
> i think we have all seen magnetic motors, alot of
> times they go all the
> way around until they get to the repulsive piece
> which then stops the
> continuous movement. i was wondering what would
> happen if we were to
> use a ratio where the other magnets will push a 2
> to 1 over the
> repulsive area of the other magnets, then once its
> over the hump it
> will be 2 to 1 over the others. the more wheels
> will make better ratios
> like 8 to 1 ! the magnetic wheels would be set up
> at different
> rotations, where some would be at there most
> forceful push and some at
> their weakest or repulsive points.
>
> so what does everyone think,it seems possible if
> you think of the
> ratios aspect of it, it would take about 5 or more
> wheels on the same
> shaft to make a better ratio set up.
>
> heres a video that shows what i am saying, its
> someone elses but if he
> makes a few more wheels it would seem that it
> would end up spinning
> continuously.
>
> -boxa888
>
>
>
>
>

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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• Thanks for the dragons den tip. ... http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ...
Message 7 of 10 , May 2, 2008
Thanks for the dragons den tip.

--- Prune <prune.etna@...> wrote:

> No. Gasoline is an energy source, magnetism isn't.
>
> If you mean using solar power to power an
> electromagnetic motor it's been
> done - they race such vehicles across Australia
> every year.
>
> If you mean use magnets instead of con-rods, why?
> where's the gain?
>
> I see that so often - "I've had this wonderful idea
> but can't make it work,
> could someone else take it forward?". Apply for
> venture capital. Go on
> Dragon's Den. Get off your butt.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:All-Energy@yahoogroups.com]On
> Behalf Of lewis frank
> Sent: 01 May 2008 22:58
> To: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [All-E] magnet motor,would ratios
> make it possible to
> overcome the magnetic stop points? HOW ABOUT MAGNETS
> AT OPPOSITE ENDS OF
> PISTONS
>
>
> Could magnetism replace gasoline in the piston
> chamber,, using opposite poles to move the
> pistons,,,
> some sort of artificial energy source say solar
> can
> provide the electricity to facilitate the magnetic
> force,,, I have been thinking of a number of
> hybrids
> can't put it all down here but perhaps someone can
> move this one forward a little bit
> --- Prune <prune.etna@...> wrote:
>
> > A basic rule of thumb - ask where the energy is
> > coming from.
> >
> > A motor, or any other sort of moving device, has
> to
> > expend energy to
> > overcome friction. Where is that energy coming
> from?
> > The magnetic wheel
> > stops because it runs out of kinetic energy -
> the
> > energy has been used
> > overcoming friction. It stops by the "repulsive
> > piece" because that's the
> > point where it needs most energy.
> >
> > It's the equivalent of a car that has run out of
> > fuel stopping at the foot
> > of the hill. It's not going to stop half-way
> down
> > the hill, now, is it? And
> > it's not going to start climbing that hill until
> you
> > put more fuel in, no
> > matter what gear the car is in.
> >
> > Of course you could envisage a device in which
> extra
> > kinetic energy is
> > stored and gives the wheel a push when it comes
> to
> > the repulsive piece. But
> > you'll have to give it that extra energy in the
> > first place and the wheel
> > will then stop when that extra energy is used
> up.
> >
> > People have been trying to make perpetual motion
> > machines out of magnets on
> > wheels for hundreds of years (really! - there
> are
> > records from the middle
> > ages). There is some interesting stuff on the
> > internet about it. But
> > whatever ideas you get, always ask that question
> -
> > where is the energy
> > coming from?
> >
> > Prune
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:All-Energy@yahoogroups.com]On
> > Behalf Of boxa588
> > Sent: 30 April 2008 21:48
> > To: All-Energy@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [All-E] magnet motor,would ratios make
> it
> > possible to overcome
> > the magnetic stop points?
> >
> >
> > i think we have all seen magnetic motors, alot
> of
> > times they go all the
> > way around until they get to the repulsive piece
> > which then stops the
> > continuous movement. i was wondering what would
> > happen if we were to
> > use a ratio where the other magnets will push a
> 2
> > to 1 over the
> > repulsive area of the other magnets, then once
> its
> > over the hump it
> > will be 2 to 1 over the others. the more wheels
> > will make better ratios
> > like 8 to 1 ! the magnetic wheels would be set
> up
> > at different
> > rotations, where some would be at there most
> > forceful push and some at
> > their weakest or repulsive points.
> >
> > so what does everyone think,it seems possible if
> > you think of the
> > ratios aspect of it, it would take about 5 or
> more
> > wheels on the same
> > shaft to make a better ratio set up.
> >
> > heres a video that shows what i am saying, its
> > someone elses but if he
> > makes a few more wheels it would seem that it
> > would end up spinning
> > continuously.
> >
> > -boxa888
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
>
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
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• If nothing else it would possibly assist a motor generator run with less input or wind turbine .... ... the ... the ... to ... ratios ... at ... same ... he
Message 8 of 10 , May 6, 2008
If nothing else it would possibly assist a motor generator run with
less input or wind turbine ....

--- In All-Energy@yahoogroups.com, "boxa588" <boxa888@...> wrote:
>
> i think we have all seen magnetic motors, alot of times they go all
the
> way around until they get to the repulsive piece which then stops
the
> continuous movement. i was wondering what would happen if we were
to
> use a ratio where the other magnets will push a 2 to 1 over the
> repulsive area of the other magnets, then once its over the hump it
> will be 2 to 1 over the others. the more wheels will make better
ratios
> like 8 to 1 ! the magnetic wheels would be set up at different
> rotations, where some would be at there most forceful push and some
at
> their weakest or repulsive points.
>
> so what does everyone think,it seems possible if you think of the
> ratios aspect of it, it would take about 5 or more wheels on the
same
> shaft to make a better ratio set up.
>
> heres a video that shows what i am saying, its someone elses but if
he
> makes a few more wheels it would seem that it would end up spinning
> continuously.
>