124CNN: Monicagate Testimony of Akin's Jordan
- Dec 17, 2000http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/05/deposition.highlight
Vernon Jordan's testimony
Rep. Asa Hutchinson (R-Arkansas), the House managers who conducted
the questioning, asked presidential friend and lobbyist Vernon Jordan
about the law firm he works for, Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer and Feld:
Jordan. We have about 800 lawyers, yes.
Hutchinson. Which is an incredible number for lawyers from someone
who practiced law in Arkansas. How do all of those lawyers--
Jordan. We have some members of our law firm who are from Arkansas,
so it's not unusual for them.
Hutchinson. And how is it that you are able to obtain enough business
for 800 lawyers?
Jordan. I don't think that's my entire responsibility. I'm just one
of 800 lawyers, and that is what I do in part, but I'm not alone in
that process of making rain.
Hutchinson. When you say "making rain," that's the terminology of
being a rainmaker?
Jordan. I think even in Arkansas, you understand what rainmaking is.
Jordan describes his impression of Monica Lewinsky:
Hutchinson. During the course of the meeting with Ms. Lewinsky, what
did you learn about her?
Jordan. Uh, enthusiastic, quite taken with herself and her
experience, uh, bubbly, effervescent, bouncy, confident, uh--
actually, I sort of had the same impression that you House managers
had of her when you met with her. You came out and said she was
impressive, and so we come out about the same place.
Jordan gives his impressions of Lewinsky's feelings toward the
Hutchinson. And did she--from your conversation with her, did you
determine that in your opinion, there was a fascination on her part
with the President?
Jordan. No question about that.
Hutchinson. And I think you previously described it that she had
a "thing" for the President?
Jordan. "Thing," yes.
Hutchinson. And did you make any specific inquiry as to the nature of
the relationship that she had with the President?
Jordan. Yes. At some point during that conversation, I asked her
directly if she had had sexual relationships with the President.
Hutchinson. And is this not an extraordinary question to ask a 24-
year-old intern, whether she had sexual relations with the President
of the United States?
Jordan. Not if you see--not if you had witnessed her emotional state
and this "thing," as I say. It was not.
Hutchinson. And her emotional state and what she expressed to you
about her feelings for the President is what prompted you to ask that
Jordan. That, plus the question of whether or not the President at
the end of his term would leave the First Lady; and that was alarming
and stunning to me.
Lewinsky testified that she told Jordan of her "phone sex"
conversations with Clinton, but Jordan testifies that he cannot
recall that disclosure:
Hutchinson. Let me go on. Did Ms. Lewinsky tell you that she and the
President had had phone sex?
Jordan. I think Ms.--I know Ms. Lewinsky told me about, uh, telephone
conversations with the President. If Ms. Lewinsky had told me
something about phone sex, I think I would have remembered that.
Hutchinson. And therefore, if she testifies that she told you that
Ms. Lewinsky and the President had phone sex, then you'd simply deny
her testimony in that regard?
David Kendall: Object to the form.
Jordan. I have no recollection, Congressman, of Ms. Lewinsky telling
me about phone sex--but given my age, I would probably have been
interested in what that was all about.
In his grand jury testimony, Jordan denied that he met with Lewinsky
at Washington's Park Hyatt hotel on December 31. When confronted with
a breakfast meeting, Jordan said he still could not recall the
meeting but didn't deny that it took place. Hutchinson questions
Jordan about that receipt:
Hutchinson. And this receipt, is this a receipt for a charge that you
had at the Park Hyatt on December 31st?
Jordan. That's an American Express receipt for breakfast.
Hutchinson. And is the date December 31st?
Jordan. That is correct.
Hutchinson. And does it reflect the items that were consumed at that
Jordan. It reflects the items that were paid for at that breakfast.
There was a dispute between Jordan and Lewinsky's testimony over
notes that the former intern had written to the president. Lewinsky
said a remark Jordan made at the December 31 breakfast gave her the
impression that she should get rid of the notes. Jordan denies that
he suggested Lewinsky destroy the notes:
Hutchinson. And did you make a statement to her, "Go home and make
sure they're not there"?
Jordan. Mr. Hutchinson, I'm a lawyer and I'm a loyal friend, but I'm
not a fool, and the notion that I would suggest to anybody that they
destroy anything just defies anything that I know about myself. So
the notion that I said to her go home and destroy notes is
Hutchinson. Well, I appreciate that reminder of ethical
responsibilities. It was--
Jordan. No, it had nothing to do with ethics, as much as it's just
good common sense, mother wit. You remember that in the South.
Hutchinson. And so--and let me read a statement that she made to the
grand jury on August 6th, 1998. This is the testimony of Ms.
Lewinsky, referring to a conversation with you at the Park Hyatt
that, "She," referring to Linda Tripp, "was my friend. I didn't
really trust her. I used to trust her, but I didn't trust her
anymore, and I was a little bit concerned because she had spent the
night at my home a few times, and I thought--I told Mr. Jordan. I
said, 'Well, maybe she's heard some'--you know, I mean, maybe she saw
some notes lying around, and Mr. Jordan said, 'Notes from the
President to you?,' and I said, 'No. Notes from me to the President,'
and he said, 'Go home and make sure they're not there."'
Jordan. And, Mr. Hutchinson, I'm saying to you that I never heard the
name "Linda Tripp" until I read the Judge--Drudge Report. Secondly,
let me say to you that I, too, have read Ms. Lewinsky's testimony
about that breakfast, and I can say to you, without fear of
contradiction on my part, maybe on her part, that the notion that I
told her to go home and destroy notes is just out of the question.