Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Classic 14 transom and scarfing

Expand Messages
  • Scott Perkins
    If any of the planned scarfed pieces are not already too thin, I would definitely think about slicing them in half and laminating them back together with the
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 5, 2008
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      If any of the planned scarfed pieces are not already too thin,
      I would definitely think about slicing them in half and laminating
      them back together with the scarf joints separated.
      This laminating process is also a favorite trick I learned
      to put the curve in the the tips of water skis as the
      thinner pieces are much easier to bend without breaking
      and if you clamp them in the curved position while the
      glue is drying there may be no need for steaming.
      Scott

      petekni69 wrote:
      >
      > Hi Elliot,
      >
      > i have nothing for you on the tramson question- i'm not planning on a
      > transomed skin boat for awhile, so i haven't given them much thought.
      >
      > However, when i think about the quality of wood that i am going to be
      > able to work with, scarfing IS something that i have been thinking
      > about. Are you planning to scarf each piece, or to scarf the
      > original stock and cut the stringers from that? If you go with the
      > latter, you've pretty much decided where the scarfs will lie on the
      > boat. Does it make sense to line the scarfs up? Depending on whose
      > glue ads you read, a scarf will be stronger than the original wood.
      > But it will affect the flexibility of the piece. With that in mind,
      > it makes some sense to me to line up the scarfs. And this is
      > contrary to my orginal plan to vary the placement of the scarfs.
      >
      > At this point i am considering a fuselage type framed double paddle
      > canoe, rather than a steamed frame type GA boat, but many of the
      > considerations are similar in many types of skin boats. Thanks for
      > the mental chew toy!
      >
      > pete
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
      > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release Date: 1/31/08 8:30 PM
    • Elliot Mednick
      I just received the partial kit for the Classic 14. There were two surprises. One was the inclusion of 5-yarn roving. I expected the 2-yarn. I would have
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 5, 2008
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        I just received the partial kit for the Classic 14. There were two
        surprises. One was the inclusion of 5-yarn roving. I expected the 2-yarn.
        I would have figured that the 2-yarn would be sufficient.

        The second -- and what I think is more interesting -- surprise is the
        absence of the Excel One polyurethane glue. I used this for the rib joints
        on the Arrow 14 when I built it in 2003. Does anyone know why it is no
        longer included in the kit? Is it no longer available? Did Platt or
        someone find fault with it? I found it easier to use for the rib joints
        where the glue doesn't have to be as strong. And great for filling the
        gaps.

        Thanks!
        --Elliot
      • noneof yourbusiness
        Elliot: I think the 5 yarn is the norm for these larger boats. That s what came with the Classic 12. Not sure about the others. Also with the Classic 12 came
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 6, 2008
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Elliot:
          I think the 5 yarn is the norm for these larger boats.
          That's what came with the Classic 12. Not sure about
          the others. Also with the Classic 12 came the epoxy.
          No poly glue, although I did purchase a small bottle
          of it. I used the epoxy though. I'm more familiar with
          that and decided to try the poly on another project.

          Sincerely:
          Paul T
          --- Elliot Mednick <elliot@...> wrote:

          > I just received the partial kit for the Classic 14.
          > There were two
          > surprises. One was the inclusion of 5-yarn roving.
          > I expected the 2-yarn.
          > I would have figured that the 2-yarn would be
          > sufficient.
          >
          > The second -- and what I think is more interesting
          > -- surprise is the
          > absence of the Excel One polyurethane glue. I used
          > this for the rib joints
          > on the Arrow 14 when I built it in 2003. Does
          > anyone know why it is no
          > longer included in the kit? Is it no longer
          > available? Did Platt or
          > someone find fault with it? I found it easier to
          > use for the rib joints
          > where the glue doesn't have to be as strong. And
          > great for filling the
          > gaps.
          >
          > Thanks!
          > --Elliot
          >
          >
          >
          >



          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Be a better friend, newshound, and
          know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
        • bschless@rasco.com
          Are you sure the glue isn t in the kit? It was down in the folded cloth for my 10 footer. And yes, 5 yarn roving. Build yourself a comb using finishing
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 6, 2008
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment

            Are you sure the glue isn't in the kit?  It was down in the folded cloth for my 10 footer.  And yes, 5 yarn roving.  Build yourself a comb using finishing nails to straighten it out.  It's a chore, but worth it.  



            Beau Schless
            President/CEO
            NOTEbookS Library Automation Systems
            Celebrating 15 years exceeding customers' expectations
            HTTP://WWW.RASCO.COM
            PH: 1.(978) 443-2996



            "Elliot Mednick" <elliot@...>
            Sent by: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

            03/05/2008 09:53 PM

            Please respond to
            Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com

            To
            <Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com>
            cc
            Subject
            [Airolite_Boats] Polyurethane glue?






            I just received the partial kit for the Classic 14. There were two
            surprises. One was the inclusion of 5-yarn roving. I expected the 2-yarn.
            I would have figured that the 2-yarn would be sufficient.

            The second -- and what I think is more interesting -- surprise is the
            absence of the Excel One polyurethane glue. I used this for the rib joints
            on the Arrow 14 when I built it in 2003. Does anyone know why it is no
            longer included in the kit? Is it no longer available? Did Platt or
            someone find fault with it? I found it easier to use for the rib joints
            where the glue doesn't have to be as strong. And great for filling the
            gaps.

            Thanks!
            --Elliot


          • guyt36
            I wondered about the poly glue as well when I built my Arrow 14 last winter. I emailed Bette and asked if I should use the epoxy on the rib joints. Yes! You
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 7, 2008
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              I wondered about the poly glue as well when I built my Arrow 14 last winter. I emailed Bette
              and asked if I should use the epoxy on the rib joints.

              "Yes! You certainly can use the epoxy..Platt, the designer, whom I lost a year ago dropped
              the Excel a couple of years ago..feeling it was too messy. Use epoxy... Good Luck with it.
              Merry Christmas, Bette Monfort"
            • Elliot Mednick
              This is the definitive answer. Thanks! I wonder if by messy , he meant the expansion of the glue, which can t be controlled, and which could get in the way
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 7, 2008
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment

                This is the definitive answer.  Thanks!

                 

                I wonder if by “messy”, he meant the expansion of the glue, which can’t be controlled, and which could  get in the way of the Dacron, or perhaps just make the joints not look good.  I doubt he meant the actual application of the glue, which you could apply  easily from the bottle, unlike the epoxy, which you have to mix and then use an applicator.

                 

                Sadly, we can’t ask him.

                 

                But if “messy” is the only issue, I’m inclined to go ahead and use Gorilla Glue (or some equivalent quality polyurethane glue) for the ribs, just for its gap-filling characteristic and its ease of application.  OTOH, Platt knew best…

                 

                --Elliot

                 

                 

                From: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of guyt36
                Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 6:08 AM
                To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Polyurethane glue?

                 

                I wondered about the poly glue as well when I built my Arrow 14 last winter. I emailed Bette
                and asked if I should use the epoxy on the rib joints.

                "Yes! You certainly can use the epoxy..Platt, the designer, whom I lost a year ago dropped
                the Excel a couple of years ago..feeling it was too messy. Use epoxy... Good Luck with it.
                Merry Christmas, Bette Monfort"

              • Scott Perkins
                The epoxy is a stronger glue but whenever the glue regardless of its strength is stronger than what it is attached to it doesnt really matter. Both are
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 7, 2008
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  The epoxy is a stronger glue but whenever the glue regardless of its
                  strength
                  is stronger than what it is attached to it doesnt really matter.
                  Both are waterproof but when filling gaps the polyurethane
                  will become much weaker do the the bubbles forming a foam
                  instead of a solid glue joint.


                  guyt36 wrote:
                  >
                  > I wondered about the poly glue as well when I built my Arrow 14 last winter. I emailed Bette
                  > and asked if I should use the epoxy on the rib joints.
                  >
                  > "Yes! You certainly can use the epoxy..Platt, the designer, whom I lost a year ago dropped
                  > the Excel a couple of years ago..feeling it was too messy. Use epoxy... Good Luck with it.
                  > Merry Christmas, Bette Monfort"
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
                  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release Date: 1/31/08 8:30 PM
                • Roland Deschain
                  Elliot: As best I recall, there have also been several citations in WoodenBoat that suggest that polyurethane glue is not quite as waterproof as commonly
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 8, 2008
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Elliot:

                    As best I recall, there have also been several citations in WoodenBoat that suggest that polyurethane glue is not quite as waterproof as commonly thought (I think one of them was by Richard Jaegels in case you feel motivated to search for it). I wouldn't altogether recommend against its use, but I would try to make sure that I didn't use it on any joint that could conceivably be submerged for an extended period.

                    -Roland


                    --- On Fri, 3/7/08, Elliot Mednick <elliot@...> wrote:

                    > From: Elliot Mednick <elliot@...>
                    > Subject: RE: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Polyurethane glue?
                    > To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Friday, March 7, 2008, 7:55 AM
                    > This is the definitive answer. Thanks!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I wonder if by "messy", he meant the expansion of
                    > the glue, which can't be
                    > controlled, and which could get in the way of the Dacron,
                    > or perhaps just
                    > make the joints not look good. I doubt he meant the actual
                    > application of
                    > the glue, which you could apply easily from the bottle,
                    > unlike the epoxy,
                    > which you have to mix and then use an applicator.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Sadly, we can't ask him.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > But if "messy" is the only issue, I'm
                    > inclined to go ahead and use Gorilla
                    > Glue (or some equivalent quality polyurethane glue) for the
                    > ribs, just for
                    > its gap-filling characteristic and its ease of application.
                    > OTOH, Platt
                    > knew best.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --Elliot
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com]
                    > On Behalf Of guyt36
                    > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 6:08 AM
                    > To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Polyurethane glue?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I wondered about the poly glue as well when I built my
                    > Arrow 14 last winter.
                    > I emailed Bette
                    > and asked if I should use the epoxy on the rib joints.
                    >
                    > "Yes! You certainly can use the epoxy..Platt, the
                    > designer, whom I lost a
                    > year ago dropped
                    > the Excel a couple of years ago..feeling it was too messy.
                    > Use epoxy... Good
                    > Luck with it.
                    > Merry Christmas, Bette Monfort"


                    ____________________________________________________________________________________
                    Be a better friend, newshound, and
                    know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                  • Elliot Mednick
                    I m going to ask the question about the transom again. According to Platt s instructions, the transom is cut oversize . The plans show the rough cut line
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 21, 2008
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment

                      I’m going to ask the question about the transom again.  According to Platt’s instructions, the transom is cut “oversize”.  The plans show the rough cut line even larger than the inside edge.  But I can’t figure out why.  Is it because planing it down produces a smoother edge?  I realize that you plane the bevel after the stringers are installed to get the edge “fair” with the stringers.  But at what point do you make the inside cut?  Why not just cut the transom to the inside dimension?  Rough edges?

                       

                      In another place, he talks about scoring plywood with a knife, then using a scroll saw.  The score makes the cut smooth.  I don’t know if this also can be applied to the transom.

                       

                      Thanks!

                       

                      --Elliot

                       

                       

                      From: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of noneof yourbusiness
                      Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 3:41 PM
                      To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Classic 14 transom and scarfing

                       

                      Elliot:
                      Re: question #1.
                      Not sure about "rough cutting the transom" Not sure,
                      but the impression I got was to cut it out per the
                      pattern, which was in fact the outline of the inner
                      edge(the dry side). The other line, inward of that
                      perimeter was the outside edge (the wet side). Then
                      when you cut the notches and install the stringers,
                      they will sort of self fair and you can then plane the
                      bevel to the stringers. Does it make a difference?
                      I've only done it that way, so I can't really say. But
                      it seemed to make sense in application.


                      > I'm about to start on the Classic 14. I have
                      > already built an Arrow 14, so
                      > I'm familiar with the process, but I have some new
                      > questions:
                      >
                      > 1) What's the purpose of rough-cutting the transom?
                      > Why not just cut it to
                      > size? Then cut the notches, glue the stringers and
                      > plane down the edge of
                      > the transom to bevel to the angle of the stringers?

                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.