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Re: Seekimg a solo tub approach.

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  • george
    Ok Phil, and also acknowledging note 1597 from Tony. Pleased to be sharing these keen interests, but not so sure the solo tub monicker is still very fitting
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 5, 2013
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      Ok Phil, and also acknowledging note 1597 from Tony.

      Pleased to be sharing these keen interests, but not so sure the 'solo tub' monicker is still very fitting for this topic thread. The content is much more important than the title, and I am not at all objecting about continuing its use.

      Originally I chose the 'solo tub' title in seeking to make it clear that speed performance holds little interest for my particular purposes. I want to construct something light and rather stable to get back onto flat water. I doubt that I had mentioned that I am an octogenarian, so that due to reduced flexibility, the higher seating in the range of 14 inches is also of vital interest to me.

      My previous thinking about using a symetric catamarine approach has been progressing. I have constructed a full size bow configuration mock-up using one eighth inch foam art sheet. This is only a bow pontoon section. A symetric pair of such pontoons would be used with a fixed joining wing to provide a one-piece walk away hull with no removable parts for transport purposes. I have given this the name of PS CAT, with PS taken from Paddled Symetric CAT.

      The nose mockup is for a covered pontoon that is eight inches deep. At the base it has the general width of 10 inches and 14 inches at the top surface. A projected spacing between the top edges of the pair of hulls is also about 12 or 14 inches, and the pontoons are planned to include an open section 'cockpit' to accomodate foot space and lower the overall CG, with good seating height for the crew. It may also be possible to accomodate a passenger. For starters, the probable pontoon length is about ten feet.

      This basic hull configuration offers a uniform wrapping distance for the covering, thus avoiding any need for stretching or shrinking of the covering to accomodate two dimentional curves. The nose is shaped to a point in two stages that requires just one short cut in each side of the one-piece cover, rejoined for one short seam to sustain the avoidance of wrinkles. Actually, the one-piece hull covering includes a one stage cross-section convergence to a base width of 5 inches, with a top width of 7 inches, and a height of 4 inches, with all aligned to a flat top surface. The second stage reduction to a point is by an add-on that is secured with wood screws, and therefore can be readily removed or altered. This second stage adds 4 inches to the hull length, with the first stage convergence being over an 8 inch length. So this nose convergence occurs over 12 inches of the hull length.

      The seating is expected to be combined with the wing that joins the pair of pontoons, and is adjacent to the floored cockpit opening in the pontoons. This area of the pontoon is expected to have a box form to support the various parts including four stringers for each pontoon. It is thought this box can be arranged as a first step in construction, so it can be employed more or less like a strongback to help control the central placement of the stringers in the initial stage of assembly. We shall see.

      With an overall assembled beam of about 40 or 42 inchesa at the top of the pontoons, the PS CAT is expected to provide pretty good stability. And since the max beam is down at the top of the pontoons, this wide beam is expected to accomodate paddling quite well, perhaps using a double paddle. Cheers, George.

      --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "fiatphil2000" wrote:
      >
      > Hello Gordon,
      > Every once in a while, something new and worthwile floats by and I happen to be looking. On your advice, I ordered Dierking's book and found it a fascinating read. Particularly the "Shunting" concept. I like the asymmetric design of the T2. It seems very fast, stable and efficient with the Gibbons/Dierking sail.
      > I think your canoe appears traditional and full depth. What are your thoughts about the sealed lower compartment of the T2 in a Platt design?
      > Could a flange be built that would seal a plywood floor against the sides of Dacron? We assume our Dacron will be as watertight as his strip planked hull, but I'm not sure how to seal the floor.
      > One alternative would be to sandwich foam between all the bulkheads below the floor and lay the floor on top. This would add some weight, but not the 65 lbs his strip planked hull weighed. One could fair the foam between bulkheads and apply the dacon and Kevlar per usual. It would stiffen the hull and afford some puncture protection.
      > I'm going to 3D model the hull and calulate the actual volume/weight of the foam. Rough estimate is 20 lb. before lightening holes.
      > As you seem to be the only person who has done the outrigger. I would appreciate your thoughts on the very deep and sharp T2 hull. Also any experience with the very light Ama (outrigger).
      >
      > Phil D
      >
      > --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Caruk, Gord" wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi George.
      > >
      > > In your first post on this topic back in Dec it sounded like you were wondering if Platt's method's could be used for the boat you're considering. My answer is yes. That method will work for other boats, and not just for the plans that are available from him. Here's an outrigger canoe that I built a couple years ago. The boat was built using Platt's methods from measurements in tables in Gary Dierking's book http://www.amazon.ca/Building-Outrigger-Sailing-Canoes-Construction/dp/0071487913/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359059790&sr=8-2 This looks somewhat like where you're headed.
      > >
      > > Gord
      > >
      >
    • anton berteaux
      Dang it, I really don t need any more books on the shelf, but I had to get this one! Thankfully there is Amazon. What about a floor, maybe even slats with
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 6, 2013
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        Dang it, I really don't need any more books on the shelf, but I had to get this one! Thankfully there is Amazon. 

        What about a floor, maybe even slats with Dacron, holding in a loosely fitted, airtight bag as flotation? Like a dry bag used for storage of items in a closed off area? Storage and floatation at the same time? It would just have to be secured well enough that it would not ever come loose and allow the boat to sink...

        Anton


        On Feb 4, 2013, at 3:19 PM, Anthony Townsend wrote:

         

        Phil,


        You might also look through some of Dave Gentry's designs and experiments.  He had a very narrow outrigger canoe at Sail Oklahoma back in Oct. 2012 that might be similar in terms of structure to what you are considering.  Dave is a great guy with a lot of experience and success moving traditional designs to SOF.

        Tony

        On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 2:32 PM, fiatphil2000 <p.dorothy@...> wrote:
         

        Hello Gordon,
        Every once in a while, something new and worthwile floats by and I happen to be looking. On your advice, I ordered Dierking's book and found it a fascinating read. Particularly the "Shunting" concept. I like the asymmetric design of the T2. It seems very fast, stable and efficient with the Gibbons/Dierking sail.
        I think your canoe appears traditional and full depth. What are your thoughts about the sealed lower compartment of the T2 in a Platt design?
        Could a flange be built that would seal a plywood floor against the sides of Dacron? We assume our Dacron will be as watertight as his strip planked hull, but I'm not sure how to seal the floor.
        One alternative would be to sandwich foam between all the bulkheads below the floor and lay the floor on top. This would add some weight, but not the 65 lbs his strip planked hull weighed. One could fair the foam between bulkheads and apply the dacon and Kevlar per usual. It would stiffen the hull and afford some puncture protection.
        I'm going to 3D model the hull and calulate the actual volume/weight of the foam. Rough estimate is 20 lb. before lightening holes.
        As you seem to be the only person who has done the outrigger. I would appreciate your thoughts on the very deep and sharp T2 hull. Also any experience with the very light Ama (outrigger).

        Phil D

        --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Caruk, Gord" wrote:
        >
        > Hi George.
        >
        > In your first post on this topic back in Dec it sounded like you were wondering if Platt's method's could be used for the boat you're considering. My answer is yes. That method will work for other boats, and not just for the plans that are available from him. Here's an outrigger canoe that I built a couple years ago. The boat was built using Platt's methods from measurements in tables in Gary Dierking's book http://www.amazon.ca/Building-Outrigger-Sailing-Canoes-Construction/dp/0071487913/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359059790&sr=8-2 This looks somewhat like where you're headed.
        >
        > Gord
        >




        Note: my new email is anton@...
        All others are supserseded, and will probably be void in a few months.

      • Aaron Wood
        Anton et al. If I were adding floatation to one of these boats (mine floats fine even full of water) I would add two floatation bags, one in each end. These
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 6, 2013
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          Anton et al.

          If I were adding floatation to one of these boats (mine floats fine even full of water) I would add two floatation bags, one in each end. These are the types of floatation bags used in whitewater canoes. A cage made of cord can be tied in the ends and the bags inflated inside of the cage. These can be found at any whitewater paddling shop, REI in the US or MEC in Canada. I do a lot of whitewater paddling in canoes and these bags are very effective.

          Cheers,

          Aaron
          Sent from my BlackBerry

          From: anton berteaux <junkmailsupreme@...>
          Sender: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:48:00 -0800
          To: <Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com>
          ReplyTo: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Seekimg a solo tub approach.

           

          Dang it, I really don't need any more books on the shelf, but I had to get this one! Thankfully there is Amazon. 


          What about a floor, maybe even slats with Dacron, holding in a loosely fitted, airtight bag as flotation? Like a dry bag used for storage of items in a closed off area? Storage and floatation at the same time? It would just have to be secured well enough that it would not ever come loose and allow the boat to sink...

          Anton


          On Feb 4, 2013, at 3:19 PM, Anthony Townsend wrote:

           

          Phil,


          You might also look through some of Dave Gentry's designs and experiments.  He had a very narrow outrigger canoe at Sail Oklahoma back in Oct. 2012 that might be similar in terms of structure to what you are considering.  Dave is a great guy with a lot of experience and success moving traditional designs to SOF.

          Tony

          On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 2:32 PM, fiatphil2000 <p.dorothy@...> wrote:
           

          Hello Gordon,
          Every once in a while, something new and worthwile floats by and I happen to be looking. On your advice, I ordered Dierking's book and found it a fascinating read. Particularly the "Shunting" concept. I like the asymmetric design of the T2. It seems very fast, stable and efficient with the Gibbons/Dierking sail.
          I think your canoe appears traditional and full depth. What are your thoughts about the sealed lower compartment of the T2 in a Platt design?
          Could a flange be built that would seal a plywood floor against the sides of Dacron? We assume our Dacron will be as watertight as his strip planked hull, but I'm not sure how to seal the floor.
          One alternative would be to sandwich foam between all the bulkheads below the floor and lay the floor on top. This would add some weight, but not the 65 lbs his strip planked hull weighed. One could fair the foam between bulkheads and apply the dacon and Kevlar per usual. It would stiffen the hull and afford some puncture protection.
          I'm going to 3D model the hull and calulate the actual volume/weight of the foam. Rough estimate is 20 lb. before lightening holes.
          As you seem to be the only person who has done the outrigger. I would appreciate your thoughts on the very deep and sharp T2 hull. Also any experience with the very light Ama (outrigger).

          Phil D

          --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Caruk, Gord" wrote:
          >
          > Hi George.
          >
          > In your first post on this topic back in Dec it sounded like you were wondering if Platt's method's could be used for the boat you're considering. My answer is yes. That method will work for other boats, and not just for the plans that are available from him. Here's an outrigger canoe that I built a couple years ago. The boat was built using Platt's methods from measurements in tables in Gary Dierking's book http://www.amazon.ca/Building-Outrigger-Sailing-Canoes-Construction/dp/0071487913/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359059790&sr=8-2 This looks somewhat like where you're headed.
          >
          > Gord
          >




          Note: my new email is anton@...
          All others are supserseded, and will probably be void in a few months.

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