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Re: reskinning a bare, weathered, wavey Ebenezer frame

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  • ocean31@bellsouth.net
    Steve: I purchased a uncompleted Ebenezer off craigslist. The basic hull was done, but that was it. I completed the hull and then skinned it using the
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 28, 2012
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      Steve:

      I purchased a uncompleted Ebenezer off craigslist. The basic hull was done, but that was it.

      I completed the hull and then skinned it using the supplied Dacron material. I remember that the plan called for two piecies of Kevlar around the rowing station, and this was listed as optional. I never installed the Kevlar.

      I did all the wood with LeTomkins varnish, then cleaned the varnish off where the cloth would make contact. Then I installed the cloth, shrunk it down and coated everything with West System epoxy. The epoxy soaked through and bonded the skin to the frame. I may pay a price for this later, but for now it has worked well.

      Installed a small seat in the back for my 12 year old son, It works, but we really could use a couple more feet of boat for comfort. The athwart ship brace on the plywood floor works well as a foot stop while rowing, I am 5 foot 8, if you are closer to 6 feet tall, you may want to add another brace for a foot stop.

      The boat was built using the 1 to 1 epoxy mixture supplied with the kit. Initially I had a problem breaking the glue bond on the seat's horizontal frame attaching to the stringers. This was not a twisting problem, but rather when I sit down, or when I drove the boat up on the beach with me sitting on it the bond would break. I fixed this problem by scraping off the glue bond, redoing the bond with West System and installing very tiny bronze screws. The size screws you would find in a Jewelry box. I could have inserted a tiny dowel, like a tooth pick and achieved the same result. A check with some epoxy suppliers resulted in the information that the higher mixing ratio epoxys are stronger than the 1 to 1 mixtures. Anyway no longer do I have problem there.

      I am rather hard on my boats, I feel if you can not use them, then they are just pretty ornaments. I row my Ebenezer twice a day when I am home. Once in the morning and once in the evening, 1 to two hours each time. Since I work offshore, and am gone half the year, that makes 180 days, at 2 hours a day of rowing. I live in Florida, with a fresh water lake about a ½ mile from the house. I just go down, pickup the boat up, shove in the water and row. When I come back I just drive her up on the sand beach. In driving her up on the beach was where I first started getting the bond failure.

      The boat stays upside down on the lake shore, 365 days a year, I have never had a problem with that. I keep her on a couple two by 4s to keep her off the dirt.

      I have 4 row boats here, but because of the ease in launching the Ebenezer, she gets rowed every day I am home, I love the way she rows, the only problem I have with her, is the basic one with any light weight boat. She gets blown around a lot in any kind of wind and chop. Which is why I row in the morning and evening, the wind is usally calmer, and the sunlight is softer, makes for a enjoyable row.

      I purchased the oars from Fancy oars out of Canada, good lightweight oars that were cheap. I recommend them, just do not be in hurry to get your oars. They take awhile to make the oars.

      Hope that helps, If you email me I can send a pictures if needed.

      JSB


      --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <asloth@...> wrote:
      >
      > I bought the above off local Craig's List (Monterey Bay CA.) for $20.00 a few months ago. A few failed glue joints, all the roving is either gone or never was, one cracked stringer, a missing aft corner brace, and such need fixing before reapplying the skin. In this case I'll use 8 oz. polyester.
      >
      > I'll only be rowing this boat, no sailing. Do I need to install the roving and if so, what other materials do you have experience with besides Kevlar? Or what other materials do you think would work for roving?
      >
      > This will be my third SoF rowboat, the other two I built using fuselage frame construction which don't use roving. I'm hooked bad on SoF rowboats.
      >
      > Thanks for all your experiences and/or thoughts.
      >
    • ocean31@bellsouth.net
      Woops, forgot to mention, The big diffrence between the Ebenezer and the classic is the plywood bottom. Mr Platt mentions that the plywood bottom makes for
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 28, 2012
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        Woops, forgot to mention, The big diffrence between the Ebenezer and the classic is the plywood bottom. Mr Platt mentions that the plywood bottom makes for a much stronger boat. While I have never rowed a classic, I would have to agree that the plywood greatly strengthens the boat. Possibly that is why the Kelvar roving is optional.

        thanks

        jsb
        --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "ocean31@..." <ocean31@...> wrote:
        >
        > Steve:
        >
        > I purchased a uncompleted Ebenezer off craigslist. The basic hull was done, but that was it.
        >
        > I completed the hull and then skinned it using the supplied Dacron material. I remember that the plan called for two piecies of Kevlar around the rowing station, and this was listed as optional. I never installed the Kevlar.
        >
        > I did all the wood with LeTomkins varnish, then cleaned the varnish off where the cloth would make contact. Then I installed the cloth, shrunk it down and coated everything with West System epoxy. The epoxy soaked through and bonded the skin to the frame. I may pay a price for this later, but for now it has worked well.
        >
        > Installed a small seat in the back for my 12 year old son, It works, but we really could use a couple more feet of boat for comfort. The athwart ship brace on the plywood floor works well as a foot stop while rowing, I am 5 foot 8, if you are closer to 6 feet tall, you may want to add another brace for a foot stop.
        >
        > The boat was built using the 1 to 1 epoxy mixture supplied with the kit. Initially I had a problem breaking the glue bond on the seat's horizontal frame attaching to the stringers. This was not a twisting problem, but rather when I sit down, or when I drove the boat up on the beach with me sitting on it the bond would break. I fixed this problem by scraping off the glue bond, redoing the bond with West System and installing very tiny bronze screws. The size screws you would find in a Jewelry box. I could have inserted a tiny dowel, like a tooth pick and achieved the same result. A check with some epoxy suppliers resulted in the information that the higher mixing ratio epoxys are stronger than the 1 to 1 mixtures. Anyway no longer do I have problem there.
        >
        > I am rather hard on my boats, I feel if you can not use them, then they are just pretty ornaments. I row my Ebenezer twice a day when I am home. Once in the morning and once in the evening, 1 to two hours each time. Since I work offshore, and am gone half the year, that makes 180 days, at 2 hours a day of rowing. I live in Florida, with a fresh water lake about a ½ mile from the house. I just go down, pickup the boat up, shove in the water and row. When I come back I just drive her up on the sand beach. In driving her up on the beach was where I first started getting the bond failure.
        >
        > The boat stays upside down on the lake shore, 365 days a year, I have never had a problem with that. I keep her on a couple two by 4s to keep her off the dirt.
        >
        > I have 4 row boats here, but because of the ease in launching the Ebenezer, she gets rowed every day I am home, I love the way she rows, the only problem I have with her, is the basic one with any light weight boat. She gets blown around a lot in any kind of wind and chop. Which is why I row in the morning and evening, the wind is usally calmer, and the sunlight is softer, makes for a enjoyable row.
        >
        > I purchased the oars from Fancy oars out of Canada, good lightweight oars that were cheap. I recommend them, just do not be in hurry to get your oars. They take awhile to make the oars.
        >
        > Hope that helps, If you email me I can send a pictures if needed.
        >
        > JSB
        >
        >
        > --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <asloth@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I bought the above off local Craig's List (Monterey Bay CA.) for $20.00 a few months ago. A few failed glue joints, all the roving is either gone or never was, one cracked stringer, a missing aft corner brace, and such need fixing before reapplying the skin. In this case I'll use 8 oz. polyester.
        > >
        > > I'll only be rowing this boat, no sailing. Do I need to install the roving and if so, what other materials do you have experience with besides Kevlar? Or what other materials do you think would work for roving?
        > >
        > > This will be my third SoF rowboat, the other two I built using fuselage frame construction which don't use roving. I'm hooked bad on SoF rowboats.
        > >
        > > Thanks for all your experiences and/or thoughts.
        > >
        >
      • Steve
        Beau and JSB, Thank you both for sharing your experiences and information. I ve got some new ideas on how to proceed w/ this reskinning project. But right now
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 28, 2012
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          Beau and JSB, Thank you both for sharing your experiences and information. I've got some new ideas on how to proceed w/ this reskinning project. But right now I'm off for jury selection task. I'll write more soon, and post a few pics of the frame to this site.

          Steve C.
        • Steve
          Got excused from civil suite jury and just uploaded four pics of this frame to Ebenezer 2 album on the Photos page of this site. More later after putting in
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 28, 2012
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            Got excused from civil suite jury and just uploaded four pics of this frame to Ebenezer 2 album on the Photos page of this site. More later after putting in place some of above ideas.

            Steve C.
          • ocean31@bellsouth.net
            Steve: Looking at your pictures, it looks like there is an additional piecie of plywood down the sides, in the inside, just above the bottom plywood. You can
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 28, 2012
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              Steve:

              Looking at your pictures, it looks like there is an additional piecie of plywood down the sides, in the inside, just above the bottom plywood. You can check my pictures in Ebeenezer 11, to see what I mean.

              jsb

              --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <asloth@...> wrote:
              >
              > Got excused from civil suite jury and just uploaded four pics of this frame to Ebenezer 2 album on the Photos page of this site. More later after putting in place some of above ideas.
              >
              > Steve C.
              >
            • bschless@rasco.com
              So cover that sucker! Just go to some fabric store and get some poly suit lining fabric, glue it on, shrink itr, hit it with a couple of cans of polyeurethane
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 28, 2012
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                So cover that sucker!  Just go to some fabric store and get some poly suit lining fabric, glue it on, shrink itr, hit it with a couple of cans of polyeurethane spray and go play!
                Beau Schless
                NOTEbookS Library Automation
                TEL: 978. 443.2996
                CELL: 978.501.0574
                http://www.rasco.com



                From:        "Steve" <asloth@...>
                To:        Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
                Date:        02/28/2012 02:55 PM
                Subject:        [Airolite_Boats] Re: reskinning a bare, weathered, wavey Ebenezer frame
                Sent by:        Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com




                 

                Got excused from civil suite jury and just uploaded four pics of this frame to Ebenezer 2 album on the Photos page of this site. More later after putting in place some of above ideas.

                Steve C.


              • Steve
                JSB, yes there are two long narrow pieces of ply glued on top of the frame ends. I ll look in the morning for more details. They might be the only pieces with
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 28, 2012
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                  JSB, yes there are two long narrow pieces of ply glued on top of the frame ends. I'll look in the morning for more details. They might be the only pieces with very good glue joints. And I recall they look to be surfaced glassed also.

                  I'm leaning on doing a bit more repairing and maybe a few strands of roving, then apply the poly cloth and finish.

                  What do you use for oar locks and sockets? And where/how are sockets attached?

                  Steve C.

                  --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "ocean31@..." <ocean31@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Steve:
                  >
                  > Looking at your pictures, it looks like there is an additional piecie of plywood down the sides, in the inside, just above the bottom plywood. You can check my pictures in Ebeenezer 11, to see what I mean.
                  >
                  > jsb
                • Steve
                  Beau, I m leaning this way more all the time. I ve already got the 8 oz. poly, so some repairing of joints, maybe a few strands of roving and on to skinning.
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 28, 2012
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                    Beau, I"m leaning this way more all the time. I"ve already got the 8 oz. poly, so some repairing of joints, maybe a few strands of roving and on to skinning. It'll never be a museum piece anyway.

                    Steve C.

                    --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, bschless@... wrote:
                    >
                    > So cover that sucker! Just go to some fabric store and get some poly suit
                    > lining fabric, glue it on, shrink itr, hit it with a couple of cans of
                    > polyeurethane spray and go play!
                    > Beau Schless
                  • ocean31@bellsouth.net
                    Stever, oar lock sockets are two blocks of wood, each side, with a brass pipe inserted through the middle. The blocks fit between and on top of the gunwale.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 29, 2012
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                      Stever, oar lock sockets are two blocks of wood, each side, with a brass pipe inserted through the middle. The blocks fit between and on top of the gunwale. I have not looked at another geosidic, but it looks like something Platt would consider standard for all rowing boats. I use inexpensive natural colored zinc row locks, standard 1/2 inch shanks, availible cheap from Jamestown dist. With a pair of spoon oars from Fancy Oars, she actually rows very well. As mentioned in my earlier post, I take her out everyday I am home. If the boat did not row well, it would not be long before that stopped.

                      Two rowing stations. I acutally do use the foward station when my son is in the back.

                      Let me know if you need further info, I can put a picture up on the site, and measure how many frames from the end, each station is.

                      jsb

                      --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <asloth@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > JSB, yes there are two long narrow pieces of ply glued on top of the frame ends. I'll look in the morning for more details. They might be the only pieces with very good glue joints. And I recall they look to be surfaced glassed also.
                      >
                      > I'm leaning on doing a bit more repairing and maybe a few strands of roving, then apply the poly cloth and finish.
                      >
                      > What do you use for oar locks and sockets? And where/how are sockets attached?
                      >
                      > Steve C.
                      >
                      > --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "ocean31@" <ocean31@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Steve:
                      > >
                      > > Looking at your pictures, it looks like there is an additional piecie of plywood down the sides, in the inside, just above the bottom plywood. You can check my pictures in Ebeenezer 11, to see what I mean.
                      > >
                      > > jsb
                      >
                    • bschless@rasco.com
                      After realizing that the oar lock sockets (and middle seat) were placed in the wrong position for comfortable rowing on my Classic 10 I looked to the hardware
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 29, 2012
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                        After realizing that the oar lock sockets (and middle seat) were placed in the wrong position for comfortable rowing on my Classic 10 I looked to the hardware store for an alternative to the expensive sockets I had purchased from a marine supply store.  In the plumbing section I found bronze couplings that accepted my oar locks perfectly. I have no idea what they were originally made for, but they were around $3.00 apiece.  Six years later they are still my oarlock sockets.  They work great.  I think this is what I bought:  http://www.aymcdonald.com/en-US/Bronze-pipe-fittings.html  and search "Series 2200: Bronze Coupling" .  


                        Beau Schless
                        NOTEbookS Library Automation
                        TEL: 978. 443.2996
                        CELL: 978.501.0574
                        http://www.rasco.com



                        From:        "Steve" <asloth@...>
                        To:        Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
                        Date:        02/29/2012 07:23 AM
                        Subject:        [Airolite_Boats] Re: reskinning a bare, weathered, wavey Ebenezer frame
                        Sent by:        Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com




                         

                        JSB, yes there are two long narrow pieces of ply glued on top of the frame ends. I'll look in the morning for more details. They might be the only pieces with very good glue joints. And I recall they look to be surfaced glassed also.

                        I'm leaning on doing a bit more repairing and maybe a few strands of roving, then apply the poly cloth and finish.

                        What do you use for oar locks and sockets? And where/how are sockets attached?

                        Steve C.

                        --- In
                        Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "ocean31@..." <ocean31@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > Steve:
                        >
                        > Looking at your pictures, it looks like there is an additional piecie
                        of plywood down the sides, in the inside, just above the bottom plywood. You can check my pictures in Ebeenezer 11, to see what I mean.
                        >
                        > jsb


                      • bschless@rasco.com
                        Before you start glassing in the socket blocks and middle seat determine (based on your height) where you want to mount your seat, and where you want to mount
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 29, 2012
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                          Before you start glassing in the socket blocks and middle seat determine (based on your height) where you want to mount your seat, and where you want to mount your oarlock sockets. For the seat I made a couple of longitudinal seat blocks that are around 24" long by 1" wide, with dowel holes every 4". Then I set my seat up with pins (made of dowels) so they line up with the seat block holes. . I put little plates on the bottom of the vertical seat supports, so when the seat is set into the seat block holes the seat is supported by the seat supports.  It takes a little finagling to get the longitudinal pieces angled right, since the floor is an arc. Once you have that figured out, then you need to determine how high above the gunwale you want the oarlock socket.  I built my blocks up about 1 1/2".  If this makes no sense let me know and I'll post a couple of pictures.
                          Beau Schless
                          NOTEbookS Library Automation
                          TEL: 978. 443.2996
                          CELL: 978.501.0574
                          http://www.rasco.com



                          From:        "ocean31@..." <ocean31@...>
                          To:        Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
                          Date:        02/29/2012 07:23 AM
                          Subject:        [Airolite_Boats] Re: reskinning a bare, weathered, wavey Ebenezer frame
                          Sent by:        Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com




                           

                          Stever, oar lock sockets are two blocks of wood, each side, with a brass pipe inserted through the middle. The blocks fit between and on top of the gunwale. I have not looked at another geosidic, but it looks like something Platt would consider standard for all rowing boats. I use inexpensive natural colored zinc row locks, standard 1/2 inch shanks, availible cheap from Jamestown dist. With a pair of spoon oars from Fancy Oars, she actually rows very well. As mentioned in my earlier post, I take her out everyday I am home. If the boat did not row well, it would not be long before that stopped.

                          Two rowing stations. I acutally do use the foward station when my son is in the back.

                          Let me know if you need further info, I can put a picture up on the site, and measure how many frames from the end, each station is.

                          jsb

                          --- In
                          Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <asloth@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > JSB, yes there are two long narrow pieces of ply glued on top of the
                          frame ends. I'll look in the morning for more details. They might be the only pieces with very good glue joints. And I recall they look to be surfaced glassed also.
                          >
                          > I'm leaning on doing a bit more repairing and maybe a few strands
                          of roving, then apply the poly cloth and finish.
                          >
                          > What do you use for oar locks and sockets? And where/how are sockets
                          attached?
                          >
                          > Steve C.
                          >
                          > --- In
                          Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "ocean31@" <ocean31@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Steve:
                          > >
                          > > Looking at your pictures, it looks like there is an additional
                          piecie of plywood down the sides, in the inside, just above the bottom plywood. You can check my pictures in Ebeenezer 11, to see what I mean.
                          > >
                          > > jsb
                          >


                        • Steve
                          JSB, I worked on the frame today and looked at the additional plywood as you noted below. What looks like plywood is thin strips of wood (3/16x3/4) set on edge
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 29, 2012
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                            JSB, I worked on the frame today and looked at the additional plywood as you noted below. What looks like plywood is thin strips of wood (3/16x3/4) set on edge then glassed to form additional floor. These two pieces cover the rib ends and curve up to about the lowest stringer. A non-traditional addition, but should be useful.

                            I'm going to clean it up, do some sanding and paint the ply and these addtional pieces. And use some of the other suggestions presented here to quickly get this boat into the water. Or a museum of rough, weathered, old dreams.

                            Steve C.

                            --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "ocean31@..." <ocean31@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Steve:
                            >
                            > Looking at your pictures, it looks like there is an additional piecie of plywood down the sides, in the inside, just above the bottom plywood. You can check my pictures in Ebeenezer 11, to see what I mean.
                            >
                            > jsb
                          • ocean31@bellsouth.net
                            Steve, you may wish to not paint the plywood and stringers where the skin would touch. Up to you, but I had good luck soaking the cloth in epoxy after
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 1, 2012
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                              Steve,  you may wish to not paint the plywood and stringers where the skin would touch.  Up to you, but I had good luck soaking the cloth in epoxy after shrinking.   This bonded the cloth to the wood.  If you paint you would reduce the bonding.  Again your call,  Platt calls for painting/varnishing the skin to the wood,  either way, if the wood is raw where the skin touches, you would get a better bond.
                               
                              If you need pictures, or measurements let me know,  The Ebenezer is a joy to row, just a little light for pushing through chop, but that is inherit in any geosidic hull.  I think the plywood that is in the Ebenezer design makes a more stronger, stiffer boat
                               
                              I looked at my oarlocks yesterday morning.  They are just tapered blocks of wood centered over the block at the 6 frame from the back,  The brass pipe goes through the block and through the block between the two gunnels.  Works well for me.
                               
                              Good luck
                               
                              jsb
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Steve
                              Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 12:06 AM
                              Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: reskinning a bare, weathered, wavey Ebenezer frame

                               

                              JSB, I worked on the frame today and looked at the additional plywood as you noted below. What looks like plywood is thin strips of wood (3/16x3/4) set on edge then glassed to form additional floor. These two pieces cover the rib ends and curve up to about the lowest stringer. A non-traditional addition, but should be useful.

                              I'm going to clean it up, do some sanding and paint the ply and these addtional pieces. And use some of the other suggestions presented here to quickly get this boat into the water. Or a museum of rough, weathered, old dreams.

                              Steve C.

                              --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "ocean31@..." <ocean31@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Steve:
                              >
                              > Looking at your pictures, it looks like there is an additional piecie of plywood down the sides, in the inside, just above the bottom plywood. You can check my pictures in Ebeenezer 11, to see what I mean.
                              >
                              > jsb

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