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Re: [Airolite_Boats] Platt technique, other designs

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  • mike&jane_osz
    I m on my first ARROW-14. I ve found that Platt s instructions are accurate and quite helpful. When I ve deviated from Platt s guidance I ve found some
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 20, 2007
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      I'm on my first ARROW-14.  I've found that Platt's instructions are accurate and quite helpful.  When I've deviated from Platt's guidance I've found some issues...such as trying to deviate from his epoxy mixture in his ARROW-14 kit...(he's right in all instances)....so he's done my homework for me.   The only add I've made to the ARROW-14 is a canoe seat ( I'm not a kayaker, by any stretch...I'm hoping the Arrow-14 tracks in the "healed over" canoe position, using a single blade canoeist paddle, since I've invested funds, years ago, in premium, light weight, carbon-fiber canoe paddles, and am not inclined to become a kayaker at this late stage in life...I'm collecting social security).
       
      I see no reason that Platt's techniques will not work with other designs.   Though not familiar with Dacron and heat shrinking, the Arrow 14 exceeded my wildest expectations.  I figure if school kids can build 'em ...then I can do it... hence, I called Platt's lovely wife and ordered my canoe plans.   Note, I'd missed Platt himself, by a couple of weeks, since he had just passed away, when ordering my plans...but his plans and guidance live on!
       
      I too had hoped to build a cedar stripper canoe...but as I checked the prices of red and white cedar strips and kits, I came to realize that Platt's designs are both fulfilling from the woodworker's viewpoint and one ends up with a very functional canoe.
       
      I started my ARROW-14 with the idea that it would be a duo "tandem"  canoe...but my wife said, ..."I'm not going out in any canoe that "YOU" build  (note we've been tandem canoeing for 30 years, in commercial canoes...Michicraft Aluminum Canoe...Mad River Malacite Canoe...Wenonah Kevlar Canoe...etc.).   But iguess she had issues with my handiwork.
       
      Fine says I ...I'll make it a "solo canoe."   You can stay home!
       
      Once the "wife unit"  sees just how nice Platt's Arrow-14 footer comes off the mould, finally with Dacron fabric and all...she says  "where's my canoe."
      So now I'm making her , her own 12 -footer Arrow canoe.
       
      I think that Platt was trying to encourage all viewers  to expand the horizons for the "geodesic designs."   I think that Platt would say " go for it."
       
      Platt's my hero,
      Mike
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: edda55812
      Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:06 PM
      Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Platt technique, other designs

      Hi,

      I'm wondering if anyone has used Platt's geodesic technique with a
      different design? Or, if anyone has modified any of Platt's? Any
      reason that you couldn't do that? I am interested in building a tandem
      BWCA tripper. I've looked at the Snowshoe 18, but there are other
      canoes that excite me more. I'm also considering pulling lines off one
      of my present canoes. There are also lots of plans available for cedar
      strip canoes. Would it be possible to build one of those with Platt's
      method? Or, are there measurements or other info in Platt's plans that
      you really need to have? Thanks.

    • edda55812
      Thanks Mike, I liked your wife story. I think I may have some similar trust issues. My wife and 13 yr old paddle my Sawyer Cruiser. I m in our other
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 20, 2007
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        Thanks Mike,

        I liked your wife story. I think I may have some similar "trust"
        issues. My wife and 13 yr old paddle my Sawyer Cruiser. I'm in our
        other tandem with our younger two. The problem is that "my" tandem
        weighs 75#, and I'm sick of toting it over the portages. I want to
        carry the 55# Cruiser, while she or my oldest carries the Monfort. I
        think, though, that it'll take some doing to convince her to trust me
        to take our kids in any craft I build.

        Agree on the paddles. Half the blade, twice the paddler!!!

        Fritz
      • Peter
        Hi everyone in this thread, I m thinking along the same lines - that of doing a little something of my own, with Platt s wonderful process at the heart. I m
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 20, 2007
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          Hi everyone in this thread,

          I'm thinking along the same lines - that of doing a little something
          of my own, with Platt's wonderful process at the heart. I'm sure that
          he would condone "giving it a go", at least that's whatI believe.

          I want to build a kayak and I think I can do tis with the plans I
          have for a "yet to be built" Nimrod12. I'm not looking for a fully
          sealed kayak cockpit and may end up with something more like a
          cruising canoe but basically what I'm after is a lower shear to keep
          out of the wind and a covered deck to shed some wate. My paddling
          conditions have changed from a lake where I was cmpletely happy with
          my Snowshoe14 to an estuary that is often windy with a short chop.

          I'd like to get a couple of like minded people together to work
          through the deck join problems and discuss my ideas. Basically I plan
          to build the Nimrod less one stringer and then construct an open
          cockpit frame. All with the view of heatshrinking the Dacron over.

          Tht' where I'm at.......

          Peter
        • johncl2@aol.com
          On my Nimrod 12 I put 2 bent ribs front and back. Than cut a plastic tarp to fit. I used hooks on the side to hold it down.
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 21, 2007
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            On my Nimrod 12 I put 2 bent ribs front and back. Than cut a plastic tarp to fit. I used hooks on the side to hold it down.



            See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
          • Earl & Barb
            Here s a must see sight: http://www.kozelguitars.com/SOFproject/SOFproject.htm He details building a kayak from a John Winters stripper design but with Platt
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 21, 2007
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              Here's a must see sight:
              http://www.kozelguitars.com/SOFproject/SOFproject.htm He details
              building a kayak from a John Winters stripper design but with Platt
              techniques. I have communicated with him via e-mail and he is very open
              and willing to discuss what and how he did it.

              I am planning to build a kayak based on the Excursion from Newfound
              Woodworks (sorry, Peter, I told you Laughing Loon). I built the stripper
              last winter and love the lines and paddling. I plan to use the same
              forms, with some adaptation, and same strongback. I just received the
              kit and plans for the Rob Rob to use with the Excursion.

              I have e-mailed Peter to say I'm with him on sharing ideas and problems
              and solutions. Any other takers?

              Earl
            • jwredwood
              The kayak adaptation looks really intriguing. I ve been thinking about doing a similar maneuver, but haven t put it into practice yet (still thinking about
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 22, 2007
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                The kayak adaptation looks really intriguing. I've been thinking
                about doing a similar maneuver, but haven't put it into practice yet
                (still thinking about what boat I want to make). And I can't help
                noticing the Rob Roy isn't really a kayak: it's a decked canoe.

                Using two sets of plans, one for the ultralight part and the other for
                the forms seems reasonable. I might try that to build a 16 foot
                Whitehall, if I ever feel really adventurous.

                I've also considered doing the same thing for a 20 foot Dark Harbor --
                but that's only a dream.
              • rueffingkidding
                ... the horizons for the geodesic designs. I think that Platt would say go for it. ... If you read Platt s write-up on the Arrow 14 on the gaboats.com
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 28, 2007
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                  --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "mike&jane_osz" <mosz@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm on my first ARROW-14...
                  > I think that Platt was trying to encourage all viewers to expand
                  the horizons for the "geodesic designs." I think that Platt would
                  say " go for it."
                  >
                  > Platt's my hero,
                  > Mike

                  If you read Platt's write-up on the Arrow 14 on the gaboats.com site,
                  you'll find that it was itself the result of a user "stretching" the
                  Snowshoe 12. I also had some correspondance with Platt a few years
                  ago in which he not only encouraged me to apply his ideas to other
                  watercraft, but explicitly rejected any claim of right or royalty over
                  any income that might result. So, the anwer to the topic question is
                  "yes", beyond a doubt. And you are right about Bette, too - she's a gem!

                  -Roland
                • rueffingkidding
                  ... Put some floatation in. NorthWest RIver Systems (nrsweb.com) has some inflatable bags that look like they would work nicely in a GA canoe. -Roland
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 28, 2007
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                    --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "edda55812" <Caled12@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks Mike,
                    >
                    > I liked your wife story. I think I may have some similar "trust"
                    > issues. My wife and 13 yr old paddle my Sawyer Cruiser. I'm in our
                    > other tandem with our younger two. The problem is that "my" tandem
                    > weighs 75#, and I'm sick of toting it over the portages. I want to
                    > carry the 55# Cruiser, while she or my oldest carries the Monfort. I
                    > think, though, that it'll take some doing to convince her to trust me
                    > to take our kids in any craft I build.
                    >
                    > Agree on the paddles. Half the blade, twice the paddler!!!
                    >
                    > Fritz
                    >

                    Put some floatation in. NorthWest RIver Systems (nrsweb.com) has some
                    inflatable bags that look like they would work nicely in a GA canoe.

                    -Roland
                  • rueffingkidding
                    ... If you did wnat to close your craft in, and make it a true kayak , I ve always thought that Baltek Decolite would make a fantastic material for the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 28, 2007
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                      --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <peterj@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi everyone in this thread,
                      >
                      > I'm thinking along the same lines - that of doing a little something
                      > of my own, with Platt's wonderful process at the heart. I'm sure that
                      > he would condone "giving it a go", at least that's whatI believe.
                      >
                      > I want to build a kayak and I think I can do tis with the plans I
                      > have for a "yet to be built" Nimrod12. I'm not looking for a fully
                      > sealed kayak cockpit and may end up with something more like a
                      > cruising canoe but basically what I'm after is a lower shear to keep
                      > out of the wind and a covered deck to shed some wate. My paddling
                      > conditions have changed from a lake where I was cmpletely happy with
                      > my Snowshoe14 to an estuary that is often windy with a short chop.
                      >
                      > I'd like to get a couple of like minded people together to work
                      > through the deck join problems and discuss my ideas. Basically I plan
                      > to build the Nimrod less one stringer and then construct an open
                      > cockpit frame. All with the view of heatshrinking the Dacron over.
                      >
                      > Tht' where I'm at.......
                      >
                      > Peter
                      >
                      If you did wnat to close your craft in, and make it a "true kayak",
                      I've always thought that Baltek Decolite would make a fantastic
                      material for the bulkheads. It's strong, and the weight is in keeping
                      with the GA approach. Might be a little hard to find, as Baltek got
                      bought by Alcan a couple of years ago, and now Alcan itself is on teh
                      market:
                      http://files.alcancomposites.com/downloads/2_3_en_/decolite_data_sheet.pdf

                      -Roland
                    • petekni69
                      i ve been lurking on the board for a few weeks, loving life because you guys have answered so many of my questions. i hope that you all won t mind if i ask a
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 4, 2007
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                        i've been lurking on the board for a few weeks, loving life because
                        you guys have answered so many of my questions. i hope that you all
                        won't mind if i ask a couple of specific questions.
                        -The boat i would like to build is the Ranger, a 15 footer whose
                        lines are in Moores' "Canoecraft". i love the looks of a Stripper,
                        but given the choice of mucking around with glass & epoxy (Frozen
                        Snot), or Dacron and heat activated glue, SOF gets very attractive.
                        And i think that i have a pretty good understanding of "Platt's
                        Method" from this board and looking at the GA Boats site. However,
                        just to be sure, should i buy a set of plans for a boat similar to
                        mine, or will i get enough guidance from the Instuction Manual? It
                        really appeals to my inner-Cheapskate to not have to pay for plans
                        that i will probably never use.
                        -One of the things that i haven't quite figured out in my research
                        is Reserve Floatation. It seems that with the amount of wood
                        involved in a Stripper will render it "Unsinkable." i don't thnk
                        this is the case with a Geod-Airolite. How do you folks adress
                        this? Foam blocks might work. My current thought is four
                        empty/seal 2ltr pop bottles, some how attached to the seats and or
                        the stems. (If my figuring is anywhere near the mark, 4 x 2 liters
                        of air = 32lbs of displacement/floatation.)
                        Thanks for reading my ramblings, and looking forward to your
                        comments,
                        pete
                      • rueffingkidding
                        ... I think that the GA plans that most closely approximate Ranger might be a good investment for study purposes. If you don t build from them, you could
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 4, 2007
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                          --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "petekni69" <petekni69@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > i've been lurking on the board for a few weeks, loving life because
                          > you guys have answered so many of my questions. i hope that you all
                          > won't mind if i ask a couple of specific questions.
                          > -The boat i would like to build is the Ranger, a 15 footer whose
                          > lines are in Moores' "Canoecraft". i love the looks of a Stripper,
                          > but given the choice of mucking around with glass & epoxy (Frozen
                          > Snot), or Dacron and heat activated glue, SOF gets very attractive.
                          > And i think that i have a pretty good understanding of "Platt's
                          > Method" from this board and looking at the GA Boats site. However,
                          > just to be sure, should i buy a set of plans for a boat similar to
                          > mine, or will i get enough guidance from the Instuction Manual? It
                          > really appeals to my inner-Cheapskate to not have to pay for plans
                          > that i will probably never use.
                          > -One of the things that i haven't quite figured out in my research
                          > is Reserve Floatation. It seems that with the amount of wood
                          > involved in a Stripper will render it "Unsinkable." i don't thnk
                          > this is the case with a Geod-Airolite. How do you folks adress
                          > this? Foam blocks might work. My current thought is four
                          > empty/seal 2ltr pop bottles, some how attached to the seats and or
                          > the stems. (If my figuring is anywhere near the mark, 4 x 2 liters
                          > of air = 32lbs of displacement/floatation.)
                          > Thanks for reading my ramblings, and looking forward to your
                          > comments,
                          > pete
                          >
                          I think that the GA plans that most closely approximate "Ranger" might
                          be a good investment for study purposes. If you don't build from
                          them, you could probably resell them with a clear conscience (Platt's
                          terms were one boat from one set of plans). If you decide against
                          buying plans, I would at the very least invest in the DVD. As an
                          actor, Platt didn't have a lot of flash, but there is a wealth of info
                          there that you will probably use over and over, and it is as close as
                          you can get to having the old codger at your elbow in the boatshop.
                          Just don't try to stay awake to watch it late at night :->

                          Regarding your second question, the boat itself is unsinkable; it is
                          the safety of captain and crew that must concern us... You could
                          certainly improvise and satisfy your sense of parsimony, if not style,
                          but my intention is to use whichever of these items is this best fit:

                          http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=1760

                          -Roalnd

                          -Roland
                        • mike&jane_osz
                          I would not recommend using plastic pop bottles as flotation devices. I don t think the danger is that capped pop bottles would not float for a short
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 4, 2007
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                            I would not recommend using "plastic pop bottles" as flotation devices.  I don't think the danger is that capped pop bottles would not float for a short period,  but in an emergency...a poorly designed, " Jerri-rigged," poorly fastening scheme could leave you (and your canoe) exposed to trouble & danger.
                             
                            Why wouldn't you spend $25, for say, the SWIFT CustomFloat Canoe Bag (item #4035)  on the www.nrsweb.com?  ...isn't your canoe and safety worth $25?   ...besides all canoeist should have their PFD's available at all times (and helmets if you do white water).   But I don't think that Platt had anything other than flat water (or mild riffles) in mind for the geodesic designs....I could be wrong,  some people would press the outer limits of any design!
                            I second the "nrsweb.com"  site that has commercially available, canoe/kayak flotation bags (with excellent tie-down securing methods) at reasonable price.
                             
                            After spending 60+ hours on my Arrow14, I intend to use the aforementioned Swift Bags( 2, one fore, one aft).
                             
                            Mike O.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 8:21 PM
                            Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Re: Platt technique, other designs

                            --- In Airolite_Boats@ yahoogroups. com, "petekni69" <petekni69@. ..> wrote:
                            >
                            > i've been lurking on the board for a few weeks, loving life because
                            > you guys have answered so many of my questions. i hope that you all
                            > won't mind if i ask a couple of specific questions.
                            > -The boat i would like to build is the Ranger, a 15 footer whose
                            > lines are in Moores' "Canoecraft" . i love the looks of a Stripper,
                            > but given the choice of mucking around with glass & epoxy (Frozen
                            > Snot), or Dacron and heat activated glue, SOF gets very attractive.
                            > And i think that i have a pretty good understanding of "Platt's
                            > Method" from this board and looking at the GA Boats site. However,
                            > just to be sure, should i buy a set of plans for a boat similar to
                            > mine, or will i get enough guidance from the Instuction Manual? It
                            > really appeals to my inner-Cheapskate to not have to pay for plans
                            > that i will probably never use.
                            > -One of the things that i haven't quite figured out in my research
                            > is Reserve Floatation. It seems that with the amount of wood
                            > involved in a Stripper will render it "Unsinkable. " i don't thnk
                            > this is the case with a Geod-Airolite. How do you folks adress
                            > this? Foam blocks might work. My current thought is four
                            > empty/seal 2ltr pop bottles, some how attached to the seats and or
                            > the stems. (If my figuring is anywhere near the mark, 4 x 2 liters
                            > of air = 32lbs of displacement/ floatation. )
                            > Thanks for reading my ramblings, and looking forward to your
                            > comments,
                            > pete
                            >
                            I think that the GA plans that most closely approximate "Ranger" might
                            be a good investment for study purposes. If you don't build from
                            them, you could probably resell them with a clear conscience (Platt's
                            terms were one boat from one set of plans). If you decide against
                            buying plans, I would at the very least invest in the DVD. As an
                            actor, Platt didn't have a lot of flash, but there is a wealth of info
                            there that you will probably use over and over, and it is as close as
                            you can get to having the old codger at your elbow in the boatshop.
                            Just don't try to stay awake to watch it late at night :->

                            Regarding your second question, the boat itself is unsinkable; it is
                            the safety of captain and crew that must concern us... You could
                            certainly improvise and satisfy your sense of parsimony, if not style,
                            but my intention is to use whichever of these items is this best fit:

                            http://www.nrsweb. com/shop/ product_list. asp?deptid= 1760

                            -Roalnd

                            -Roland

                          • rueffingkidding
                            ... mild riffles) in mind for the geodesic designs....I could be wrong, some people would press the outer limits of any design! ... If by flat water or mild
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 5, 2007
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                              --- In Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com, "mike&jane_osz" <mosz@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >...I don't think that Platt had anything other than flat water (or
                              mild riffles) in mind for the geodesic designs....I could be wrong,
                              some people would press the outer limits of any design!
                              >
                              If by "flat water or mild riffles", you mean "not out of sight of
                              land" I would agree. But if you mean "only on inland lakes, ponds,
                              and streams" I would disagree. Platt was a Mainer, from that part of
                              the coast where babies are born with sea legs. A long-time, if not
                              life-long boatsman, Platt knew the ocean well. When he called the
                              Classic 12, for example, "very seaworthy", I don't think he was
                              blowing marketing smoke out his ventral orifice, I think that he meant
                              that it is designed to be suitable for use in the ocean within sight
                              of land, subject to good judgement. Blue water boats - nah, but not
                              exclusively for flat, sheltered, wuss water, either. YMMV...

                              -Roland
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