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Snowshoe Lassie - ack - my keel is hogged already!

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  • floatingcanuck
    Hi all, I m not sure how I hosed this up, and not sure whether the dacron/kevlar wrap process is intended to take this out (doubt it) but I m about to hack off
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 26 4:42 PM
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      Hi all, I'm not sure how I hosed this up, and not sure whether the dacron/kevlar wrap process is intended to take this out (doubt it) but I'm about to hack off my whole keel due to it being hogged out (opposite of rockered). Note picture linked here https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ny7K5Bx7hYXwv6dyLJ_YEC1DRxqlx8aSBIKMcPmbK-4?feat=directlink

      When I had it on station molds I plummed it perfectly straight and level (note the blocks I had to add to keep it from being even worse).

      Any ideas on how to fix vs cutting the whole thing off and starting over?

      thank you. Mike

      Build 'happenings' that may have caused this; 1. I did not soak/steam my gunwales or inwales as suggested as they bent fine and held in the station mold notches just fine (perhaps the inherent flex when releasing from the station molds caused my backward keel?) 2. I notched in the station molds closest to the stems just a bit, to get the stringers to lay in with a natural curve (versus the bowed out way the molds seemed to want to force them out) https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lLxxWdmNnQAGZDPpxGmLlC1DRxqlx8aSBIKMcPmbK-4?feat=directlink

       

    • Aaron Wood
      Mike, Don t hack it off! I ll send pics of my fix when I get home. Same problem on my boat. Cheers, Aaron Sent from my BlackBerry ... From: floatingcanuck
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 26 5:36 PM
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        Mike,

        Don't hack it off! I'll send pics of my fix when I get home. Same problem on my boat.

        Cheers,

        Aaron

        Sent from my BlackBerry


        From: "floatingcanuck" <mikelisav@...>
        Sender: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:42:56 -0000
        To: <Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com>
        ReplyTo: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Snowshoe Lassie - ack - my keel is hogged already!

         

        Hi all, I'm not sure how I hosed this up, and not sure whether the dacron/kevlar wrap process is intended to take this out (doubt it) but I'm about to hack off my whole keel due to it being hogged out (opposite of rockered). Note picture linked here https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ny7K5Bx7hYXwv6dyLJ_YEC1DRxqlx8aSBIKMcPmbK-4?feat=directlink

        When I had it on station molds I plummed it perfectly straight and level (note the blocks I had to add to keep it from being even worse).

        Any ideas on how to fix vs cutting the whole thing off and starting over?

        thank you. Mike

        Build 'happenings' that may have caused this; 1. I did not soak/steam my gunwales or inwales as suggested as they bent fine and held in the station mold notches just fine (perhaps the inherent flex when releasing from the station molds caused my backward keel?) 2. I notched in the station molds closest to the stems just a bit, to get the stringers to lay in with a natural curve (versus the bowed out way the molds seemed to want to force them out) https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lLxxWdmNnQAGZDPpxGmLlC1DRxqlx8aSBIKMcPmbK-4?feat=directlink

         

      • Caruk, Gord
        Darn! Sorry about that Mike. Following Platt s idea to preload the gunwales (without any soaking or steaming) works surprisingly well. Without preloading the
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 26 6:19 PM
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          Darn! Sorry about that Mike. Following Platt’s idea to preload the gunwales (without any soaking or steaming) works surprisingly well. Without preloading the tendency is to pull out so that vertical face isn’t actually vertical making it tougher to glue the ribs to it. If you had the gunwales seated on the forms, and it looks like you had no trouble attaching the ribs, I’d be surprised that the gunwales would sag the entire hull when removed from the forms. I don’t know that of course, but suspect there might have been another answer.  Also your stringers look pretty straight, although the camera angle makes it hard to tell. What do you think eyeballing them?

           

          How were your ribs applied? Soaked, steamed, dry? I have noticed a problem that will appear if the bend in the rib from the floor to the wall is not formed to touch up to all of the stringers. If the rib is pulled with any force into that curve it will pull the keel up and the stringer beside it. It is important that the rib be carefully bent so that it kisses up to the stringer and sits there with no force. The clamps just hold it there while it dries (cures). I know that some folks steam their ribs. I tried that but prefer the much longer working time of soaking ribs (a couple of days for the really tight bends near the ends).

           

          I’m wondering if this look is just a product of supporting the hull by the very tips of the bow and stern, and the weight of the frame is causing this sag. It looks like that’s happening in your picture. Do you have some pictures of it just before you took it off of the frames? If the hull was sitting on supports at ~ 25% and 75% along the hull, I bet it will sag less. I’m a bit curious what the hull looks like if it is turned over and supported by the ends. If the shape is changing, don’t sweat it. Remember that when the hull is in the water your body weight will push down on the center of the hull and water will push up the stem and stern. If alignment was ok before you took the frames off, you could very well be in ok shape. Spend more time eyeballing it before hacking off that keel.

           

          If there’s any truth to any of this, when you add the Kevlar, be sure to have the keel supported to give the proper alignment beforehand. I hope this works out for you. These are great boats.

           

          Gord

        • taffy case
          My keel had a dip to it when sighted as your photo.  I glue a piece in and then fared it of with a small plane.  It isn t bad looking and didn t take much
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 27 3:52 AM
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            My keel had a dip to it when sighted as your photo.  I glue a piece in and then fared it of with a small plane.  It isn't bad looking and didn't take much time. Added weight was only a couple of ounces.  Good luck and happy paddling.  Taffy


            From: floatingcanuck <mikelisav@...>
            To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 7:42:56 PM
            Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Snowshoe Lassie - ack - my keel is hogged already!

             

            Hi all, I'm not sure how I hosed this up, and not sure whether the dacron/kevlar wrap process is intended to take this out (doubt it) but I'm about to hack off my whole keel due to it being hogged out (opposite of rockered). Note picture linked here https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ny7K5Bx7hYXwv6dyLJ_YEC1DRxqlx8aSBIKMcPmbK-4?feat=directlink

            When I had it on station molds I plummed it perfectly straight and level (note the blocks I had to add to keep it from being even worse).

            Any ideas on how to fix vs cutting the whole thing off and starting over?

            thank you. Mike

            Build 'happenings' that may have caused this; 1. I did not soak/steam my gunwales or inwales as suggested as they bent fine and held in the station mold notches just fine (perhaps the inherent flex when releasing from the station molds caused my backward keel?) 2. I notched in the station molds closest to the stems just a bit, to get the stringers to lay in with a natural curve (versus the bowed out way the molds seemed to want to force them out) https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lLxxWdmNnQAGZDPpxGmLlC1DRxqlx8aSBIKMcPmbK-4?feat=directlink

             

          • AARON WOOD
            Mike, In the photos below you can see something similar happened with my boat. It was bugging me and so I decided to fix it. First I measured how much the
            Message 5 of 5 , May 2, 2011
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            Mike,

            In the photos below you can see something similar happened with my boat.  It was bugging me and so I decided to fix it.  First I measured how much the keel had to move, similar error fore and aft (centre section was ok), then cut the joints with a flush cut oscillating saw.  Next I inserted shims under the keel using the level as a straightedge to be able to tell when I was where I needed to be.  I marked the shims then glued them in, using the weights to mildly clamp the joints.  I cut the shims off with the flush cut saw.

            All this said, the repair was totally unnecessary.  The boat tracks like it's on rails, something I was actually hoping to avoid, hoping instead for a boat that turns better.  However with entry lines like these boats have, they will track anyway.  That leaves drag as a possible factor with a keel line with "reverse rocker" as yours has.  I have another boat with a keel that dips a bit toward centre, and it's one of my fastest canoes, probably because it tracks so well.  I wouldn't suggest it be done on purpose, but I can't imagine that (with my current understanding of boat design) a dip of 1/2" or so would make a major difference in paddling characteristics.  That leaves aesthetics, which is totally your call.  I think if you leave it the way it is tracking will be increased ever so slightly, making holding a course in windy conditions (something these boats already excel at) easily done.

            Hope all that helps!!

            Cheers,
            Aaron


            From: floatingcanuck <mikelisav@...>
            To: Airolite_Boats@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 7:42:56 PM
            Subject: [Airolite_Boats] Snowshoe Lassie - ack - my keel is hogged already!

             

            Hi all, I'm not sure how I hosed this up, and not sure whether the dacron/kevlar wrap process is intended to take this out (doubt it) but I'm about to hack off my whole keel due to it being hogged out (opposite of rockered). Note picture linked here https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ny7K5Bx7hYXwv6dyLJ_YEC1DRxqlx8aSBIKMcPmbK-4?feat=directlink

            When I had it on station molds I plummed it perfectly straight and level (note the blocks I had to add to keep it from being even worse).

            Any ideas on how to fix vs cutting the whole thing off and starting over?

            thank you. Mike

            Build 'happenings' that may have caused this; 1. I did not soak/steam my gunwales or inwales as suggested as they bent fine and held in the station mold notches just fine (perhaps the inherent flex when releasing from the station molds caused my backward keel?) 2. I notched in the station molds closest to the stems just a bit, to get the stringers to lay in with a natural curve (versus the bowed out way the molds seemed to want to force them out) https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lLxxWdmNnQAGZDPpxGmLlC1DRxqlx8aSBIKMcPmbK-4?feat=directlink

             

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