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Re: [Airchairgroup] Best Editing Ever !

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  • Jim Foreman
    ... From: rexnstudio@aol.com While I was still believing it, I was thinking that the fellow was going for some altitude to attempt a bailout... a possibility
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 1, 2008
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      ----- Original Message -----

      While I was still believing it, I was thinking that the fellow was going for some altitude to attempt a bailout... a possibility in such a high powered design, assuming that some control authority was available.

      With the skills & machinery that full scale acro pilots are using these days, I believe that a survivable crash could be performed in much the same way as the 3-D knife-edge model "arrival".

      It would be a mess..... but as long as you hit the ground "flying" with no fire....

      Rex


      As they say, keep flying the airplane till all the pieces stop bouncing.
       
      Jim
    • AndrewL
      As an after thought... I have no problems believing that a successful landing is possible. Modern aerobatics aircraft have got the power and the control
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 1, 2008
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        As an after thought... I have no problems believing that a successful
        landing is possible. Modern aerobatics aircraft have got the power and the
        control authority.

        IIRC, there has been at least one successful landing of either an F14 or F15
        (I think the latter) minus one wing or a major portion of one wing.

        Something different but along the same lines. There was an incident many
        years ago where a pilot had a failure in one of his aerobatic aircrafts wing
        (mono, not bi) attach points which tried to fold the wing upwards. He landed
        successfully after an inverted approach and roll to put it onto its wheels.
        That one got a short write up in one of the US Aviation publications.



        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com]
        > On Behalf Of Jim Foreman
        > Sent: Sunday, 2 November 2008 12:17 AM
        > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Airchairgroup] Best Editing Ever !
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: rexnstudio@... <mailto:rexnstudio@...>
        >
        >
        > While I was still believing it, I was thinking that the fellow was
        > going for some altitude to attempt a bailout... a possibility in such a
        > high powered design, assuming that some control authority was available.
        >
        > With the skills & machinery that full scale acro pilots are using
        > these days, I believe that a survivable crash could be performed in much
        > the same way as the 3-D knife-edge model "arrival".
        >
        > It would be a mess..... but as long as you hit the ground "flying"
        > with no fire....
        >
        > Rex
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > As they say, keep flying the airplane till all the pieces stop
        > bouncing.
        >
        > Jim
        >
        >
        >
        > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
        > signature database 3575 (20081031) __________
        >
        > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
        >
        > http://www.eset.com
      • Jim Foreman
        ... From: AndrewL Subject: RE: [Airchairgroup] Best Editing Ever ! ... Some pilots have accomplished amazing things when it came down
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 1, 2008
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "AndrewL" <hmc101@...>
          Subject: RE: [Airchairgroup] Best Editing Ever !


          > As an after thought... I have no problems believing that a successful
          > landing is possible. Modern aerobatics aircraft have got the power and the
          > control authority.
          >
          > IIRC, there has been at least one successful landing of either an F14 or
          > F15
          > (I think the latter) minus one wing or a major portion of one wing.
          >
          > Something different but along the same lines. There was an incident many
          > years ago where a pilot had a failure in one of his aerobatic aircrafts
          > wing
          > (mono, not bi) attach points which tried to fold the wing upwards. He
          > landed
          > successfully after an inverted approach and roll to put it onto its
          > wheels.
          > That one got a short write up in one of the US Aviation publications.
          >
          Some pilots have accomplished amazing things when it came down to a do
          or die situation. I didn't see it actually happen but did see the ship
          before it was turned upright. One blade came off the Aeromatic prop on a
          Stinson Station Wagon and it shook the engine right out of the mounts. With
          the engine gone, the center of gravity was off the scale and somehow he
          became inverted. He found that he had more control of it that way than
          before so he landed it inverted. He was an ex-WW-II Navy pilot which
          probably had a lot to do with his being cool under fire.

          Jim
        • Kent Hugus
          Speaking of missing wings, back in WW-I, Courtney Campbell of Lafayette Escadrille lost the lower left wing of his Nieuport 17 while pulling a loop too tight.
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 1, 2008
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            Speaking of missing wings, back in WW-I, Courtney Campbell of Lafayette Escadrille lost the lower left wing of his Nieuport 17 while pulling a loop too tight.  He managed to keep it level as he glided ten miles straight ahead to a safe landing in a beet field. An ambulance was sent to recover his body, but he convinced the driver to stop at each bar on the return.  By the time he returned, they had to rely on the driver to tell them where the Nieuport was, Campbell was too drunk to remember.




            To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
            From: jimfore@...
            Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 09:46:37 -0500
            Subject: Re: [Airchairgroup] Best Editing Ever !

             
            ----- Original Message -----

            While I was still believing it, I was thinking that the fellow was going for some altitude to attempt a bailout... a possibility in such a high powered design, assuming that some control authority was available.

            With the skills & machinery that full scale acro pilots are using these days, I believe that a survivable crash could be performed in much the same way as the 3-D knife-edge model "arrival".

            It would be a mess..... but as long as you hit the ground "flying" with no fire....

            Rex


            As they say, keep flying the airplane till all the pieces stop bouncing.
             
            Jim


          • jamesofalltrades2
            Here s one that appears legitimate but R/C: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsNIhBlyepc What s more interesting is that engineless Stinson...that guy must have
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 1, 2008
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              Here's one that appears legitimate but R/C:
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsNIhBlyepc

              What's more interesting is that engineless Stinson...that guy must
              have been a hell of a pilot to fly inverted like that. With the
              engine gone, the center of gravity of the airplane moved rearwards -
              it essentially became a (really crappy) canard. That is, both
              surfaces had to produce lift and the large wing became the "canard"
              with the tailplane becoming the "main wing." Since the canard's
              function is to counteract the pitching moment of the main wing...and
              the canard in this case is many times the size of the main wing and
              has a large pitching moment - it was probably rather twitchy and
              reacted unfavorably to gusts. With the airplane upside down, likely
              the pitching moment of the cambered airfoil was aimed in a more
              favorable direction and made it fly more like an autostable airfoil.
              Rampant speculation of course...but sounds good!

              --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Foreman" <jimfore@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "AndrewL" <hmc101@...>
              > Subject: RE: [Airchairgroup] Best Editing Ever !
              >
              >
              > > As an after thought... I have no problems believing that a successful
              > > landing is possible. Modern aerobatics aircraft have got the power
              and the
              > > control authority.
              > >
              > > IIRC, there has been at least one successful landing of either an
              F14 or
              > > F15
              > > (I think the latter) minus one wing or a major portion of one wing.
              > >
              > > Something different but along the same lines. There was an
              incident many
              > > years ago where a pilot had a failure in one of his aerobatic
              aircrafts
              > > wing
              > > (mono, not bi) attach points which tried to fold the wing upwards. He
              > > landed
              > > successfully after an inverted approach and roll to put it onto its
              > > wheels.
              > > That one got a short write up in one of the US Aviation publications.
              > >
              > Some pilots have accomplished amazing things when it came down
              to a do
              > or die situation. I didn't see it actually happen but did see the ship
              > before it was turned upright. One blade came off the Aeromatic prop
              on a
              > Stinson Station Wagon and it shook the engine right out of the
              mounts. With
              > the engine gone, the center of gravity was off the scale and somehow he
              > became inverted. He found that he had more control of it that way than
              > before so he landed it inverted. He was an ex-WW-II Navy pilot which
              > probably had a lot to do with his being cool under fire.
              >
              > Jim
              >
            • Jim Foreman
              It takes a lot of forward stick to keep the ship level when inverted normally so the loss of the weight of the engine would likely reduce the forward stick
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 1, 2008
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                It takes a lot of forward stick to keep the ship level when inverted
                normally so the loss of the weight of the engine would likely reduce the
                forward stick needed.

                Jim

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "jamesofalltrades2" <jamesofalltrades2@...>

                > Here's one that appears legitimate but R/C:
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsNIhBlyepc
                >
                > What's more interesting is that engineless Stinson...that guy must
                > have been a hell of a pilot to fly inverted like that. With the
                > engine gone, the center of gravity of the airplane moved rearwards -
                > it essentially became a (really crappy) canard. That is, both
                > surfaces had to produce lift and the large wing became the "canard"
                > with the tailplane becoming the "main wing." Since the canard's
                > function is to counteract the pitching moment of the main wing...and
                > the canard in this case is many times the size of the main wing and
                > has a large pitching moment - it was probably rather twitchy and
                > reacted unfavorably to gusts. With the airplane upside down, likely
                > the pitching moment of the cambered airfoil was aimed in a more
                > favorable direction and made it fly more like an autostable airfoil.
                > Rampant speculation of course...but sounds good!
                >
                > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Foreman" <jimfore@...> wrote:
                >>
              • Lincoln Ross
                http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/repeats/zlin_wing_failure.htm ... snip ... aircrafts wing
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
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                  http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/repeats/zlin_wing_failure.htm
                  --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "AndrewL" <hmc101@...> wrote:
                  >
                  snip
                  >
                  > Something different but along the same lines. There was an incident many
                  > years ago where a pilot had a failure in one of his aerobatic
                  aircrafts wing
                  > (mono, not bi) attach points which tried to fold the wing upwards. snip
                • Kent Hugus
                  More about missing wings and things: Al Konizy (phonetic spelling) taxiied out for night field carrier landing practice at Charlestown, RI in his AD Skyraider.
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
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                    More about missing wings and things:
                     
                    Al Konizy (phonetic spelling) taxiied out for night field carrier landing practice at Charlestown, RI in his AD Skyraider.  No one noticed his wings were still folded and neither did Al until he tried to turn downwind on his first circuit.  Al survived the crash and insists that if he had turned right instead of left, he would have made it.






                    To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                    From: lincolnr@...
                    Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 05:16:09 +0000
                    Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Best Editing Ever !


                    http://www.aerobati cs.org.uk/ repeats/zlin_ wing_failure. htm
                    --- In Airchairgroup@ yahoogroups. com, "AndrewL" <hmc101@...> wrote:
                    >
                    snip
                    >
                    > Something different but along the same lines. There was an incident many
                    > years ago where a pilot had a failure in one of his aerobatic
                    aircrafts wing
                    > (mono, not bi) attach points which tried to fold the wing upwards. snip


                  • AndrewL
                    Very similar story to the one I recall, but not the same one. Seems it has happened more than once.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
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                      Very similar story to the one I recall, but not the same one. Seems it has
                      happened more than once.

                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com]
                      > On Behalf Of Lincoln Ross
                      > Sent: Monday, 3 November 2008 2:46 PM
                      > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Best Editing Ever !
                      >
                      > http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/repeats/zlin_wing_failure.htm
                      > <http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/repeats/zlin_wing_failure.htm>
                      > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:Airchairgroup%40yahoogroups.com> , "AndrewL" <hmc101@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > snip
                      > >
                      > > Something different but along the same lines. There was an incident many
                      > > years ago where a pilot had a failure in one of his aerobatic
                      > aircrafts wing
                      > > (mono, not bi) attach points which tried to fold the wing upwards. snip
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
                      > signature database 3576 (20081102) __________
                      >
                      > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
                      >
                      > http://www.eset.com
                    • Lincoln Ross
                      You are perilously close to that TOPIC WHICH MUST NEVER BE MENTIONED! Don t do it again! Unless you want this list to look like the current presidential
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
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                        You are perilously close to that TOPIC WHICH MUST NEVER BE MENTIONED!
                        Don't do it again! Unless you want this list to look like the current
                        presidential campaign. (Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that either.)
                        ;-p
                        --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, Kent Hugus <KentHugus@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > More about missing wings and things:
                        >
                        > Al Konizy (phonetic spelling) taxiied out for night field carrier
                        landing practice at Charlestown, RI in his AD Skyraider. No one
                        noticed his wings were still folded and neither did Al until he tried
                        to turn downwind on his first circuit. Al survived the crash and
                        insists that if he had turned right instead of left, he would have made
                        it.
                        >
                        snip
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