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Jig for making ribs and struts

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  • Scott Perkins
    Scott- This is an interesting and novel approach to forming ribs. Can I assume that the way to cut the rib shape into the plywood would be with a band saw ?
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 1 12:33 AM
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      Scott-
      This is an interesting and novel approach to forming ribs.

      Can I assume that the way to cut the rib shape into the plywood
      would be with a band saw ? Is there such a thing as a thick
      blade or just take the inner component and apply sander to increase
      width of slot to insert sheet metal... or maybe is all right
      as originally cut ?

      So at that point just insert the metal to the prescribed depth or
      as deep as is possible with the depth of the plywood and then just
      hammer away I presume.

      I am wondering what alloy and tempers and skin thickness are being used
      as ultimtely 2024 of soft temper would be mallable and then after
      forming
      could then heat treat. but if other already tempered alloys can be
      used and still survive the sharp bending of the metal during forming
      that would allow the saving of extra steps even further. maybe 6061 ?

      From the looks of it, this may be the most appealing method I have
      ever seen for building ribs and I dont think it would be limited
      to tube spars either.
      Scott

      --------------------------------------
      ORIG MSG:
      Robert Baslee from Aerodrome Airplanes does his ribs and
      wing structure like this...(see link) Could be a very easy wing for
      an airchair... http://www.bakken-net.com/ribs.htm

      Scott Bakken
      scott@...
    • Scott Bakken
      A few comments….. Seems to me you could layout a pattern on paper… transfer it to MDF (cheap and long lasting) use a hand held jig saw to cut it out… you
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 1 7:09 AM
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        Message

        A few comments…..

        Seems to me you could layout a pattern on paper… transfer it to MDF (cheap and long lasting) use a hand held jig saw to cut it out… you could come back to the cut out shapes and clean them up with a pattern makers rasp pretty fast.

        Not sure what the dementions are on the top and bottom rib long runs are maybe 2" to start then bent 90 degs. , you could have the local metal fabricators cut and bend them down the middle 90 degs… then I believe they are formed using fluting plyers and slipped in to the slot….

        For the smaller upright pieces… looks to me like they are about 1" wide with 1" bent 90 degs on each side… again 3" stock taken to the metal shop to be bent… or you could take a few 5 ft sections (depending on there break size) and cut them to length after.

        Same for the middle wider uprights look to be about 2" wide with 1" bent 90 degs on each side… again long sections could be bent and then cut to size…

        At each spar the gussets could be cut by hand and bent on a small bench top break… I think you could buy them at harbor frieght or maybe aircraft spruce for less then 50 bucks…. You could use this to bend all the middle uprights too… but a metal shop could do it in short order…

        Another important note… after all the ribs are installed on the wing, some 0.16 leading edge is applied. This adds allot of strength and ridigity to the whole wing in horizontal direction and between the ribs… kinda acts like a huge gusset in its self.

        Just a guess.. But I would bet after the first 2 or 3 ribs, you could knock out a lot of ribs in say an afternoon.

        When I built my wings for my fokker… I used tube, had to bend it, the cut and file the ends to fit the tangent of the front spar, real pain in the butt….

        .....one other thing…. Im not sure what size or alloy Robert uses, but he's friendly to talk to his number is listed on his site… http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com

        I think you may even be able to skin the wing in some thin .016 sheet and not weigh too much more than if you covered it with fabric, but I don’t know… seems to me it would make it a lot stronger than fabric. Some place on then net, I sure you could find the weight of a sq ft of .016 sheet.

        Anyway…. Take care… sorry about the spelling... an english major Im not....

         /s/

        Scott Bakken 

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Scott Perkins [mailto:2scott@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 12:33 AM
        To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com; vula@yahoogroups.com; fly5k@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Airchairgroup] Jig for making ribs and struts

        Scott-
        This is an interesting and novel approach to forming ribs.

        Can I assume that the way to cut the rib shape into the plywood
        would be with a band saw ?  Is there such a thing as a thick
        blade or just take the inner component and apply sander to increase
        width of slot to insert sheet metal...  or maybe is all right
        as originally cut ?

        So at that point just insert the metal to the prescribed depth or
        as deep as is possible with the depth of the plywood and then just
        hammer away I presume.

        I am wondering what alloy and tempers and skin thickness are being used
        as ultimtely 2024 of soft temper would be mallable and then after
        forming
        could then heat treat.   but if other already tempered alloys can be
        used and still survive the sharp bending of the metal during forming
        that would allow the saving of extra steps even further.  maybe 6061 ?

        From the looks of it, this may be the most appealing method I have
        ever seen for building ribs and I dont think it would be limited
        to tube spars either.
        Scott

        --------------------------------------
        ORIG MSG:
        Robert Baslee from Aerodrome Airplanes does his ribs and
        wing structure like this...(see link) Could be a very easy wing for
        an airchair...  http://www.bakken-net.com/ribs.htm

        Scott Bakken
        scott@...


        Link to Airchair main page for archives, files and photos
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/


        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        Airchairgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • hmaroske
        ... Scott, this is a really nice piece of information, thank you so much! Now that is what I wanted to see on this list :-) Thanks again, Hendrik
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 1 10:15 AM
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          Scott Bakken wrote:

          > Hendrik... & all... Robert Baslee from Aerodrome Airplanes does his ribs and wing structure like this...(see link) Could be a very easy wing for
          > an airchair...
          >
          > http://www.bakken-net.com/ribs.htm

          Scott,

          this is a really nice piece of information, thank you so much!
          Now that is what I wanted to see on this list :-)

          Thanks again,

          Hendrik
        • Scott Bakken
          Well... the way I see it... there are many ways to build something, I cant think of them all... thanks goes to the the list.... /s/ Scott ... From:
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 1 10:46 AM
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            Message
            Well... the way I see it... there are many ways to build something, I cant think of them all...
             
            thanks goes to the the list....
             
            /s/
            Scott
            -----Original Message-----
            From: root@...-online.net [mailto:root@...-online.net] On Behalf Of hmaroske
            Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 10:16 AM
            To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Airchairgroup] Jig for making ribs and struts


            Scott Bakken wrote:

            > Hendrik... & all... Robert Baslee from Aerodrome Airplanes does his ribs and wing structure like this...(see link) Could be a very easy wing for
            > an airchair...

            > http://www.bakken-net.com/ribs.htm

            Scott,

            this is a really nice piece of information, thank you so much!
            Now that is what I wanted to see on this list :-)

            Thanks again,

            Hendrik


            Link to Airchair main page for archives, files and photos
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/


            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            Airchairgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • Chris Boultinghouse
            Hi guys, Those ribs are very similar to the ribs in the Hummel UltraCruiser ultralight aircraft. They are made from .025 6061-T6, which is quite easy to form
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 2 6:51 AM
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              Hi guys,

              Those ribs are very similar to the ribs in the Hummel UltraCruiser
              ultralight aircraft. They are made from .025" 6061-T6, which is quite
              easy to form in the tempered condition. An "L" angle is bent on a
              brake, then the curve is introduced using either a shrinker or
              crimping pliers. The trusses can be made from either "L" or "U" stock
              (also bent on a brake).

              Honestly though, the weight savings over a conventional sheet metal
              rib with flanged lightening holes is negligible, and the time spent
              is at least double on each rib compared to a regular "pounded over a
              form block" rib.

              If you are considering using either method, try making a test rib
              using the built-up truss method, then make one the same size
              from .016" 6061-T6 with large, flanged lightening holes. Then weigh
              them. I think you'll be surprised.

              Best Regards,

              Chris Boultinghouse
              http://sonex260.murkworks.com



              --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, Scott Perkins <2scott@b...>
              wrote:
              > Scott-
              > This is an interesting and novel approach to forming ribs.
            • Scott Bakken
              How do you make the form? Is it steet, wood, what? Do you have any pictures of this? Ive always known that stamped ribs would be very fast to make, but making
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 2 8:19 AM
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                Message
                How do you make the form? Is it steet, wood, what? Do you have any pictures of this?  Ive always known that stamped ribs would be very fast to make, but making a mold and die would be very expensive for most homebuilders.  if its just a free standing form that you wack the material with a hammer, how do you keep it from moving during the process? Pictures?  Thanks Chris... I learn alot from this group....
                 
                /s/
                Scott Bakken
                 
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Chris Boultinghouse [mailto:sonexbuilder@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 6:52 AM
                To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Jig for making ribs and struts

                Hi guys,

                Those ribs are very similar to the ribs in the Hummel UltraCruiser
                ultralight aircraft. They are made from .025" 6061-T6, which is quite
                easy to form in the tempered condition. An "L" angle is bent on a
                brake, then the curve is introduced using either a shrinker or
                crimping pliers. The trusses can be made from either "L" or "U" stock
                (also bent on a brake).

                Honestly though, the weight savings over a conventional sheet metal
                rib with flanged lightening holes is negligible, and the time spent
                is at least double on each rib compared to a regular "pounded over a
                form block" rib.

                If you are considering using either method, try making a test rib
                using the built-up truss method, then make one the same size
                from .016" 6061-T6 with large, flanged lightening holes. Then weigh
                them. I think you'll be surprised.

                Best Regards,

                Chris Boultinghouse
                http://sonex260.murkworks.com



                --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, Scott Perkins <2scott@b...>
                wrote:
                > Scott-
                > This is an interesting and novel approach to forming ribs.



                Link to Airchair main page for archives, files and photos
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/


                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                Airchairgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              • Chris Boultinghouse
                Scott, The form block is nothing more than particle board or MDF (medium density fiberboard) with a backing block of the same size. The rib blank is clamped
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 2 1:32 PM
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                  Scott,

                  The form block is nothing more than particle board or MDF (medium
                  density fiberboard) with a backing block of the same size. The rib
                  blank is clamped between the blocks, then hammered over the form with
                  a plastic hammer. Nothing high-tech or expensive about it! I've got
                  pictures on both my old Zenith site, and my Sonex site showing the
                  rib forming process.

                  Zenith (sorry about the popups), check the form block and rib forming
                  links:

                  http://members.tripod.com/zodiacbuilder/pictures.htm

                  The Sonex ribs are very similar. Go to my main page, click
                  the "construction logs" link at the top, then Wing ribs.

                  http://sonex260.murkworks.com/

                  If you have any more questions, just ask!

                  -Chris


                  --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Bakken" <scott@b...>
                  wrote:
                  > How do you make the form? Is it steet, wood, what? Do you have any
                  pictures
                  > of this? Ive always known that stamped ribs would be very fast to
                  make, but
                  > making a mold and die would be very expensive for most
                  homebuilders. if its
                  > just a free standing form that you wack the material with a hammer,
                  how do
                  > you keep it from moving during the process? Pictures? Thanks
                  Chris... I
                  > learn alot from this group....
                  >
                  > /s/
                  > Scott Bakken
                • Koen Van de Kerckhove
                  Hallo, I am not a expert. So I may be wrong. Even making myself look like a fool. But here is my thought. I heared from another teacher in my school that they
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 2 3:40 PM
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                    Hallo,

                    I am not a expert. So I may be wrong. Even making myself look like a
                    fool. But here is my thought.

                    I heared from another teacher in my school that they made asstrays
                    in plate steel by making a positive and female shape of it and
                    pressing those two into a plate. Could it be done to make a rib in
                    alu? If somebody had contacts with CNC operated machines, he could
                    let it done for him and use it for himself. Afterwards he could have
                    the templates (right word) sold or hired. Maybe he could made them
                    in a small serie for others and share the costs.

                    Just a thought.

                    Keep that brain spawning wings,

                    Koen

                    PS. I saw that my members amount is rizing. If you came from this
                    group, thanks guys.
                  • Brad Johnston
                    yes. I have heard of people pressing out ribs that way. But I also heard that for a limited run of 22 ribs the hand made is easier. ... From: Koen Van de
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 2 3:57 PM
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                      yes. I have heard of people pressing out ribs that way. But I also heard
                      that for a limited run of 22 ribs the hand made is easier.


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Koen Van de Kerckhove" <nestofdragons@...>
                      To: <Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 6:40 PM
                      Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Jig for making ribs and struts


                      > Hallo,
                      >
                      > I am not a expert. So I may be wrong. Even making myself look like a
                      > fool. But here is my thought.
                      >
                      > I heared from another teacher in my school that they made asstrays
                      > in plate steel by making a positive and female shape of it and
                      > pressing those two into a plate. Could it be done to make a rib in
                      > alu? If somebody had contacts with CNC operated machines, he could
                      > let it done for him and use it for himself. Afterwards he could have
                      > the templates (right word) sold or hired. Maybe he could made them
                      > in a small serie for others and share the costs.
                      >
                      > Just a thought.
                      >
                      > Keep that brain spawning wings,
                      >
                      > Koen
                      >
                      > PS. I saw that my members amount is rizing. If you came from this
                      > group, thanks guys.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Link to Airchair main page for archives, files and photos
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > Airchairgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
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