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Re: [Airchairgroup] Re: Weight-Shift vs Stick & Rudder

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  • SydUlvick@aol.com
    Yep, but I ll repeat a message I sent to this list several months ago. I transitioned from HG s (Hang IV, a tad over 100 hours) to sailplanes a number of
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 2, 2005
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      Yep, but I'll repeat a message I sent to this list several months ago.  I transitioned from HG's (Hang IV, a tad over 100 hours) to sailplanes a number of years ago.  Right around the 100 hour mark in a sailplane, I was looking straight up through the canopy at another glider I was sharing a thermal with, and after a fashion we both hit air that put us uncomfortably close together.  I instinctively moved to push the nose down and realized to my dismay that instead I was pitching up towards the other glider.  Nothing happened because I had kept a good margin between us, but I realized immediately that I had just 'pulled in the bar'.  Perhaps it happened because I was looking straight up, but the message I'm trying to convey is that simple training might not solely eliminate this annoyance.  It has been suggested that a solution might be to think of yourself as the stick; this sounds useful but after a number of hours of airtime your control inputs are not really conscious but instinctive.  I'm not sure what to suggest as a remedy.  Perhaps this particular hazard is reduced for pilots that transition from one type of flying vehicle to another, compared to a biwingual pilot that remains current in both.  I was shocked when I found myself doing this - it gave me great pause.
       
      -Syd  
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mitja <mitja.sersen@...>
      To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:11:17 -0000
      Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Weight-Shift vs Stick & Rudder

      Hi!
      It is only matter of training. Couple more flights and you will feel
      comfortable flying both airplane and hang glider.
      Because of different geometry for the control stik and the triangle
      (A-ftame on HG), it will soon be totaly normal reaction to pull the
      stik and push the A-frame for increasing the angle of attack. 
      Believe me, I fly both types of aircrafts and I had no bad experiences
      yet concerning wrong controll inputs.
      
      Regards!
      Mitja
      
      
      
      --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, rexnstudio@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 7/22/2005 4:13:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, > stewart.midwinter@g... writes: > > correlate moving the stick forward with moving your body forward in a hang > glider, you won't have a problem with roll and pitch. > > > Ummm..... After nearly 25 years of fixed wing / stick & rudder flying, I > flew a Rogallo / Weight shift vehicle for the first time a few weeks back. I > found that the roll was very natural feeling. The pitch control was difficult > for me. At altitude I could make a quick mistake and correct the pitch, but I > did not feel as though I was in command of the airplane (that warm fuzzy > feeling). I was flying with an experienced weight-shift pilot who offered the > landing to me. I declined feeling like a critical correction in error close to > the ground might turn his trike into a lawn dart. > Cheers, > Rex Link to Airchair main page for archives, files and photos http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Airchairgroup-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • kmatti2001
      I fly all types (HII not many hours, Glider not many hours, three axis aircraft many hours) and at least once each time I fly hanggliders I will pull in when I
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 3, 2005
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        I fly all types (HII not many hours, Glider not many hours, three
        axis aircraft many hours) and at least once each time I fly
        hanggliders I will pull in when I should push out, especially on
        tow. I just make sure everytime I fly I understand I might have the
        problem, so when I do it I won't be surprised and think the
        plane/hangglider is reacting opposite to what I think I am doing. If
        it starts going opposite of what I want that is the first thing I
        consider. I also make sure my control inputs are as small as needed
        when close to the ground and others so I always have room to correct
        from an error. I don't I wil ever be to the point where it will be
        automatice on both types of flying all the time, so I will always be
        worried about and hopefully will never be complacent about it.

        Ken


        --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, SydUlvick@a... wrote:
        > Yep, but I'll repeat a message I sent to this list several months
        ago. I transitioned from HG's (Hang IV, a tad over 100 hours) to
        sailplanes a number of years ago. Right around the 100 hour mark in
        a sailplane, I was looking straight up through the canopy at another
        glider I was sharing a thermal with, and after a fashion we both hit
        air that put us uncomfortably close together. I instinctively moved
        to push the nose down and realized to my dismay that instead I was
        pitching up towards the other glider. Nothing happened because I
        had kept a good margin between us, but I realized immediately that I
        had just 'pulled in the bar'. Perhaps it happened because I was
        looking straight up, but the message I'm trying to convey is that
        simple training might not solely eliminate this annoyance. It has
        been suggested that a solution might be to think of yourself as the
        stick; this sounds useful but after a number of hours of airtime
        your control inputs are not really conscious but instinctive. I'm
        not sure what to suggest as a remedy. Perhaps this particular
        hazard is reduced for pilots that transition from one type of flying
        vehicle to another, compared to a biwingual pilot that remains
        current in both. I was shocked when I found myself doing this - it
        gave me great pause.
        >
        > -Syd
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Mitja <mitja.sersen@g...>
        > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:11:17 -0000
        > Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Weight-Shift vs Stick & Rudder
        >
        >
        > Hi!
        > It is only matter of training. Couple more flights and you will
        feel
        > comfortable flying both airplane and hang glider.
        > Because of different geometry for the control stik and the triangle
        > (A-ftame on HG), it will soon be totaly normal reaction to pull the
        > stik and push the A-frame for increasing the angle of attack.
        > Believe me, I fly both types of aircrafts and I had no bad
        experiences
        > yet concerning wrong controll inputs.
        >
        > Regards!
        > Mitja
        >
        >
        > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, rexnstudio@a... wrote:
        > >
        > > In a message dated 7/22/2005 4:13:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
        > > stewart.midwinter@g... writes:
        > >
        > > correlate moving the stick forward with moving your body forward
        in
        > a hang
        > > glider, you won't have a problem with roll and pitch.
        > >
        > >
        > > Ummm..... After nearly 25 years of fixed wing / stick & rudder
        > flying, I
        > > flew a Rogallo / Weight shift vehicle for the first time a few
        weeks
        > back. I
        > > found that the roll was very natural feeling. The pitch control
        was
        > difficult
        > > for me. At altitude I could make a quick mistake and correct the
        > pitch, but I
        > > did not feel as though I was in command of the airplane (that
        warm
        > fuzzy
        > > feeling). I was flying with an experienced weight-shift pilot
        who
        > offered the
        > > landing to me. I declined feeling like a critical correction in
        > error close to
        > > the ground might turn his trike into a lawn dart.
        > > Cheers,
        > > Rex
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Link to Airchair main page for archives, files and photos
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
      • revolution_air
        Transitioning from HG to PG, I had a similar experience. In HG, you pull to speed up. In PG, you pull to slow down. I think the key when switching aircraft
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 3, 2005
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          Transitioning from HG to PG, I had a similar experience. In HG, you
          pull to speed up. In PG, you pull to slow down.

          I think the key when switching aircraft is to accept that, no matter
          what your level of expertise was/is in other aircraft, you are a
          BEGINNER/NOVICE/DEBUTANT in the new aircraft.

          As a beginner, you should start in very easy conditions and only
          gradually increase the challenge level. It is not a case of taking a
          few hours to try out the controls and then flying in strong and/or
          crowded conditions "because I've flown in those conditions before".


          --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, SydUlvick@a... wrote:
          > Yep, but I'll repeat a message I sent to this list several months
          ago. I transitioned from HG's (Hang IV, a tad over 100 hours) to
          sailplanes a number of years ago. Right around the 100 hour mark in a
          sailplane, I was looking straight up through the canopy at another
          glider I was sharing a thermal with, and after a fashion we both hit
          air that put us uncomfortably close together. I instinctively moved
          to push the nose down and realized to my dismay that instead I was
          pitching up towards the other glider. Nothing happened because I had
          kept a good margin between us, but I realized immediately that I had
          just 'pulled in the bar'. Perhaps it happened because I was looking
          straight up, but the message I'm trying to convey is that simple
          training might not solely eliminate this annoyance. It has been
          suggested that a solution might be to think of yourself as the stick;
          this sounds useful but after a number of hours of airtime your control
          inputs are not really conscious but instinctive. I'm not sure what to
          suggest as a remedy. Perhaps this particular hazard is reduced for
          pilots that transition from one type of flying vehicle to another,
          compared to a biwingual pilot that remains current in both. I was
          shocked when I found myself doing this - it gave me great pause.
          >
          > -Syd
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Mitja <mitja.sersen@g...>
          > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:11:17 -0000
          > Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Weight-Shift vs Stick & Rudder
          >
          >
          > Hi!
          > It is only matter of training. Couple more flights and you will feel
          > comfortable flying both airplane and hang glider.
          > Because of different geometry for the control stik and the triangle
          > (A-ftame on HG), it will soon be totaly normal reaction to pull the
          > stik and push the A-frame for increasing the angle of attack.
          > Believe me, I fly both types of aircrafts and I had no bad experiences
          > yet concerning wrong controll inputs.
          >
          > Regards!
          > Mitja
          >
          >
          > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, rexnstudio@a... wrote:
          > >
          > > In a message dated 7/22/2005 4:13:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          > > stewart.midwinter@g... writes:
          > >
          > > correlate moving the stick forward with moving your body forward in
          > a hang
          > > glider, you won't have a problem with roll and pitch.
          > >
          > >
          > > Ummm..... After nearly 25 years of fixed wing / stick & rudder
          > flying, I
          > > flew a Rogallo / Weight shift vehicle for the first time a few weeks
          > back. I
          > > found that the roll was very natural feeling. The pitch control was
          > difficult
          > > for me. At altitude I could make a quick mistake and correct the
          > pitch, but I
          > > did not feel as though I was in command of the airplane (that warm
          > fuzzy
          > > feeling). I was flying with an experienced weight-shift pilot who
          > offered the
          > > landing to me. I declined feeling like a critical correction in
          > error close to
          > > the ground might turn his trike into a lawn dart.
          > > Cheers,
          > > Rex
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Link to Airchair main page for archives, files and photos
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Dave
          I had the chance sit in the back seat and fly a Dragonfly tug down at Quest and get a quick lesson. After a left turn I lost it when the plane emmediately
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 5, 2005
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            I had the chance sit in the back seat and fly a Dragonfly tug down at
            Quest and get a quick lesson. After a left turn I lost it when the
            plane emmediately turned (almost spinning) to the left. The instructor
            over emphasisized the reverse control and I realized it was like having
            to high side it as on a hang glider. I imagined a little prone harness
            guy on the stick and quickly had the plane doing coordinated roll
            reverses and climbs and dives. If I were to get into more stick flying,
            I would sculpt a silly reminder and put it on the stick. This idea
            might work going from stick to weight shift if you flew with it for a
            while and it just might knock off the time between thinking and
            reacting. The pedals are another issue all together. I have extensive
            hours playing the free download game "Warbirds". I have pedals that
            gave me an advantage. I still dead stick land planes on a moving
            carrier for practice and get air time on rainy days...
            Dave
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