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Re: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!

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  • Brian Huffaker
    ... Nice looking parts. To help people quantify how much time the mill saved, I ve made lots of similar parts for my RV, using hacksaw, file and drill. Takes
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 7, 2013
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      On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, nicnicholson wrote:

      > All right Red, I have an answer for you!
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/photos/album/1271044408/pic/426634716/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
      >
      > That photo represents about 65 hours of work on the mill--about 230
      > parts. I made a lot of them in double quantity because I'm intending to
      > make a second plane down the line, for my son.
      >
      > I'd say, if you want to save a LOT of time, all of these parts "need"
      > to be made on a mill. (I know that's not what you meant--it's true that
      > a mill is not required.)
      >

      Nice looking parts. To help people quantify how much time the mill
      saved, I've made lots of similar parts for my RV, using hacksaw, file and
      drill. Takes 1/2 to 2 hours or so each, what with measuring, marking,
      cutting, filing and drilling. I've thought about getting a mill, but in
      addition to the mill cost, I would need to get the tooling. Building a
      kit it doesn't seem like it would save enough time to justify the cost to
      me. Even scratch building a goat, it is simple enough that I don't know
      how I'd go. And as for selling after, I never seem to get rid of tools.
      :)


      Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@...)
      RV-8A 80091 hooking up engine
      1/4 Starduster II N23UT down for overhaul
    • nicnicholson
      That s true, it s not just the cost of the mill. Some other essential tools that go with it: A GOOD vice. edge finder dial indicator, magnetic stand (for
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 7, 2013
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        That's true, it's not just the cost of the mill.

        Some other essential tools that go with it:

        A GOOD vice.
        edge finder
        dial indicator, magnetic stand (for aligning vice)
        Mill stop (Clamps to vice. Can be machined, like I did)
        Corner rounding end mills (1/4, 3/8) These REALLY helped. EBAY! $20
        End mills. (Harbor Freight)
        Drill chuck (probably comes with mill)
        Collet set (probably comes with mill)
        center drills
        parallels
        drill index (set of drills)


        I highly recommend a Harbor Freight Horizontal/Vertical band saw. $250
        (I left that out. It was a HUGE part of my time savings. Ten seconds to cut a 2" x 1/8" bar. One minute to cut 4 identical pieces!)

        With patience and planning, a lot of this can be found second-hand. My Jet Mill/drill cost me $750, used, and came with a lot of tooling.

        -nic


        --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, Brian Huffaker <bifft@...> wrote:
        >
        > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, nicnicholson wrote:
        >
        > > All right Red, I have an answer for you!
        > >
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/photos/album/1271044408/pic/426634716/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
        > >
        > > That photo represents about 65 hours of work on the mill--about 230
        > > parts. I made a lot of them in double quantity because I'm intending to
        > > make a second plane down the line, for my son.
        > >
        > > I'd say, if you want to save a LOT of time, all of these parts "need"
        > > to be made on a mill. (I know that's not what you meant--it's true that
        > > a mill is not required.)
        > >
        >
        > Nice looking parts. To help people quantify how much time the mill
        > saved, I've made lots of similar parts for my RV, using hacksaw, file and
        > drill. Takes 1/2 to 2 hours or so each, what with measuring, marking,
        > cutting, filing and drilling. I've thought about getting a mill, but in
        > addition to the mill cost, I would need to get the tooling. Building a
        > kit it doesn't seem like it would save enough time to justify the cost to
        > me. Even scratch building a goat, it is simple enough that I don't know
        > how I'd go. And as for selling after, I never seem to get rid of tools.
        > :)
        >
        >
        > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@...)
        > RV-8A 80091 hooking up engine
        > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT down for overhaul
        >
      • red
        Nic, I wish I had enough money (and space) for that much wonderful tooling. As I said at the beginning, I m only planning to build one glider. Most of my
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 8, 2013
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          Nic,

          I wish I had enough money (and space) for that much wonderful
          tooling. As I said at the beginning, I'm only planning to build one glider.
          Most of my fittings are completed. It can *all* be done, just with hand
          tools. Mike Sandlin is a pure genius, for that fact. I can (and did) save
          a lot of time for myself with my small table saw (with an aluminum-cutting
          blade), my old belt sander (with an aluminum-cutting belt), and a
          Port-A-Lign drilling guide for my drill motor. All of that stuff came from
          Sears, but I got it all used, for cheap. These are tools which do lots of
          household jobs also, so I can well-justify their cost and space to myself.
          Using clamps as stops on my saw fence and miter-gauge guide, I can make
          duplicate parts. They may not be micrometer-accurate in every dimension,
          but if the spacings between holes are accurate, my parts will work very
          nicely. The belt sander makes short work of rounding off corners and edges.

          Sure would love to have that array of tooling (and the space for all
          of it) though, no doubt. Then I would have Brian's problem, too; I hate to
          part with tooling. :-)

          Cheers,
          Red

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of nicnicholson
          Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 11:30 PM
          To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!

          That's true, it's not just the cost of the mill.
          Some other essential tools that go with it:

          A GOOD vice.
          edge finder
          dial indicator, magnetic stand (for aligning vice)
          Mill stop (Clamps to vice. Can be machined, like I did)
          Corner rounding end mills (1/4, 3/8) These REALLY helped. EBAY! $20 End
          mills. (Harbor Freight) Drill chuck (probably comes with mill) Collet set
          (probably comes with mill) center drills parallels drill index (set of
          drills)

          I highly recommend a Harbor Freight Horizontal/Vertical band saw. $250
          (I left that out. It was a HUGE part of my time savings. Ten seconds to
          cut a 2" x 1/8" bar. One minute to cut 4 identical pieces!)
          With patience and planning, a lot of this can be found second-hand. My Jet
          Mill/drill cost me $750, used, and came with a lot of tooling.

          -nic

          --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, Brian Huffaker <bifft@...> wrote:
          > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, nicnicholson wrote:
          >
          > > All right Red, I have an answer for you!
          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/photos/album/1271044408/
          > > pic/426634716/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&d
          > > ir=asc
          > >
          > > That photo represents about 65 hours of work on the mill--about 230
          > > parts. I made a lot of them in double quantity because I'm
          > > intending to make a second plane down the line, for my son.
          > >
          > > I'd say, if you want to save a LOT of time, all of these parts
          > > "need" to be made on a mill. (I know that's not what you
          > > meant--it's true that a mill is not required.)
          >
          > Nice looking parts. To help people quantify how much time the mill
          > saved, I've made lots of similar parts for my RV, using hacksaw, file
          > and drill. Takes 1/2 to 2 hours or so each, what with measuring,
          > marking, cutting, filing and drilling. I've thought about getting a
          > mill, but in addition to the mill cost, I would need to get the
          > tooling. Building a kit it doesn't seem like it would save enough
          > time to justify the cost to me. Even scratch building a goat, it is
          > simple enough that I don't know how I'd go. And as for selling after,
          > I never seem to get rid of tools.
          > :)
          >
          > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@...)
          > RV-8A 80091 hooking up engine
          > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT down for overhaul
        • Gregory Nolan
          Hello Brian, I would like to use a CNC water jet. What is the material and thickness you are working with? If anyone is building an Airchair and needs blanks,
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 9, 2013
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            Hello Brian,

            I would like to use a CNC water jet. What is the material and thickness you are working with? If anyone is building an Airchair and needs blanks, I would be happy to furnish them. Thanks.


            Regards,

            Greg Nolan     734.674.4194
          • mish_dood
            Hellow , I oused a small angle grinder to cut(with 1mm cuting disc) and grind (with sand paper disc) to final shape the parts, and i made around 8 parts in 3
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 14, 2013
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              Hellow ,
              I oused a small angle grinder to cut(with 1mm cuting disc) and grind (with sand paper disc) to final shape the parts, and i made around 8 parts in 3 hours, in toatal i worked around 50 hours.
              I purchased a 2x2feet 1/8 thick sheet of 6061t6 and cut it with guillotine to specified widh in the drawings, so i had 1/2, 3/4,... to 2 inch flat bars. All my parts made frome flat bars cost was 35 euro (the 2x2feet sheet), and had verry little scrap material.
              To drill perpendicular holes i buit a sliding braket for a power drill and basicly made up a driling machine, i have posted some pictures the "romanian goat" in picture section.
              I buit myself all the jigs and tools to make my work easier.
              So be creative, think and you will find solutions.

              Best regarde , Mihai


              --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, Brian Huffaker <bifft@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, nicnicholson wrote:
              >
              > > All right Red, I have an answer for you!
              > >
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/photos/album/1271044408/pic/426634716/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
              > >
              > > That photo represents about 65 hours of work on the mill--about 230
              > > parts. I made a lot of them in double quantity because I'm intending to
              > > make a second plane down the line, for my son.
              > >
              > > I'd say, if you want to save a LOT of time, all of these parts "need"
              > > to be made on a mill. (I know that's not what you meant--it's true that
              > > a mill is not required.)
              > >
              >
              > Nice looking parts. To help people quantify how much time the mill
              > saved, I've made lots of similar parts for my RV, using hacksaw, file and
              > drill. Takes 1/2 to 2 hours or so each, what with measuring, marking,
              > cutting, filing and drilling. I've thought about getting a mill, but in
              > addition to the mill cost, I would need to get the tooling. Building a
              > kit it doesn't seem like it would save enough time to justify the cost to
              > me. Even scratch building a goat, it is simple enough that I don't know
              > how I'd go. And as for selling after, I never seem to get rid of tools.
              > :)
              >
              >
              > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@...)
              > RV-8A 80091 hooking up engine
              > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT down for overhaul
              >
            • Scott Perkins
              That all sounds very clever, I just want you to remember when you are shaping aluminum bars with grinders etc. that if you let them get hot you will have
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 14, 2013
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                That all sounds very clever, I just want you to remember when
                you are shaping aluminum bars with grinders etc. that if you
                let them get hot you will have destroyed two thirds of their strength.

                We just dont want you to ever be asking yourself
                "why did that wing break?" while you are falling to earth.
                Be careful and be safe
                Scott


                --- On Thu, 3/14/13, mish_dood <mihaiforna@...> wrote:

                > From: mish_dood <mihaiforna@...>
                > Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!
                > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 5:21 PM
                > Hellow ,
                > I oused a small angle grinder to cut(with 1mm cuting disc)
                > and grind (with sand paper disc) to final shape the parts,
                > and i made around 8 parts in 3 hours, in toatal i worked
                > around 50 hours.
                > I purchased a 2x2feet 1/8 thick sheet of 6061t6 and cut it
                > with  guillotine to specified widh in the drawings, so
                > i had 1/2, 3/4,... to 2 inch flat bars. All my parts made
                > frome flat bars cost was 35 euro (the 2x2feet sheet), and
                > had verry little scrap material.
                > To drill perpendicular holes i buit a sliding braket for a
                > power drill and basicly made up a driling machine, i have
                > posted some pictures  the "romanian goat" in picture
                > section.
                > I buit myself all the jigs and tools to make my work
                > easier.
                > So be creative, think and you will find solutions.
                >
                > Best regarde , Mihai
                >
                >
                > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com,
                > Brian Huffaker <bifft@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, nicnicholson wrote:
                > >
                > > > All right Red, I have an answer for you!
                > > >
                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/photos/album/1271044408/pic/426634716/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                > > >
                > > > That photo represents about 65 hours of work on
                > the mill--about 230
                > > > parts.  I made a lot of them in double
                > quantity because I'm intending to
                > > > make a second plane down the line, for my son.
                > > >
                > > > I'd say, if you want to save a LOT of time, all of
                > these parts "need"
                > > > to be made on a mill.  (I know that's not
                > what you meant--it's true that
                > > > a mill is not required.)
                > > >
                > >
                > >   Nice looking parts.  To help
                > people quantify how much time the mill
                > > saved, I've made lots of similar parts for my RV, using
                > hacksaw, file and
                > > drill.  Takes 1/2 to 2 hours or so each, what with
                > measuring, marking,
                > > cutting, filing and drilling.  I've thought about
                > getting a mill, but in
                > > addition to the mill cost, I would need to get the
                > tooling.  Building a
                > > kit it doesn't seem like it would save enough time to
                > justify the cost to
                > > me.  Even scratch building a goat, it is simple
                > enough that I don't know
                > > how I'd go.  And as for selling after, I never
                > seem to get rid of tools.
                > > :)
                > >
                > >
                > >   Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@...)
                > >   RV-8A 80091  hooking up engine
                > >   1/4 Starduster II N23UT down for
                > overhaul
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > .
                > .
                > Link to Airchair main page for archives, files and photos
                >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/
                > .
                > Link to Mike Sandlin's BUG (Basic Ultralight Glider)
                > website
                > http://m-sandlin.info/
                > .
                > Link to Wikipedia Airchair
                > http://airchairbuild.wikidot.com/
                > .
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >     Airchairgroup-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
              • Eric & Christine McKenney
                I have always had good luck using wood working tools on aluminum, if i needed to cut 1/8 inch I would use the table saw. To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 14, 2013
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                  I have always had good luck using wood working tools on aluminum, if i needed to cut 1/8 inch I would use the table saw.
                   

                  To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                  From: 2scott@...
                  Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:35:05 -0700
                  Subject: Re: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!

                   
                  That all sounds very clever, I just want you to remember when
                  you are shaping aluminum bars with grinders etc. that if you
                  let them get hot you will have destroyed two thirds of their strength.

                  We just dont want you to ever be asking yourself
                  "why did that wing break?" while you are falling to earth.
                  Be careful and be safe
                  Scott

                  --- On Thu, 3/14/13, mish_dood <mihaiforna@...> wrote:

                  > From: mish_dood <mihaiforna@...>
                  > Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!
                  > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 5:21 PM
                  > Hellow ,
                  > I oused a small angle grinder to cut(with 1mm cuting disc)
                  > and grind (with sand paper disc) to final shape the parts,
                  > and i made around 8 parts in 3 hours, in toatal i worked
                  > around 50 hours.
                  > I purchased a 2x2feet 1/8 thick sheet of 6061t6 and cut it
                  > with  guillotine to specified widh in the drawings, so
                  > i had 1/2, 3/4,... to 2 inch flat bars. All my parts made
                  > frome flat bars cost was 35 euro (the 2x2feet sheet), and
                  > had verry little scrap material.
                  > To drill perpendicular holes i buit a sliding braket for a
                  > power drill and basicly made up a driling machine, i have
                  > posted some pictures  the "romanian goat" in picture
                  > section.
                  > I buit myself all the jigs and tools to make my work
                  > easier.
                  > So be creative, think and you will find solutions.
                  >
                  > Best regarde , Mihai
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com,
                  > Brian Huffaker <bifft@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, nicnicholson wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > All right Red, I have an answer for you!
                  > > >
                  > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/photos/album/1271044408/pic/426634716/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                  > > >
                  > > > That photo represents about 65 hours of work on
                  > the mill--about 230
                  > > > parts.  I made a lot of them in double
                  > quantity because I'm intending to
                  > > > make a second plane down the line, for my son.
                  > > >
                  > > > I'd say, if you want to save a LOT of time, all of
                  > these parts "need"
                  > > > to be made on a mill.  (I know that's not
                  > what you meant--it's true that
                  > > > a mill is not required.)
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >   Nice looking parts.  To help
                  > people quantify how much time the mill
                  > > saved, I've made lots of similar parts for my RV, using
                  > hacksaw, file and
                  > > drill.  Takes 1/2 to 2 hours or so each, what with
                  > measuring, marking,
                  > > cutting, filing and drilling.  I've thought about
                  > getting a mill, but in
                  > > addition to the mill cost, I would need to get the
                  > tooling.  Building a
                  > > kit it doesn't seem like it would save enough time to
                  > justify the cost to
                  > > me.  Even scratch building a goat, it is simple
                  > enough that I don't know
                  > > how I'd go.  And as for selling after, I never
                  > seem to get rid of tools.
                  > > :)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >   Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@...)
                  > >   RV-8A 80091  hooking up engine
                  > >   1/4 Starduster II N23UT down for
                  > overhaul
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > .
                  > .
                  > Link to Airchair main page for archives, files and photos
                  >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/
                  > .
                  > Link to Mike Sandlin's BUG (Basic Ultralight Glider)
                  > website
                  > http://m-sandlin.info/
                  > .
                  > Link to Wikipedia Airchair
                  > http://airchairbuild.wikidot.com/
                  > .
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >     Airchairgroup-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >

                • red
                  Mihai, Scott makes a good point, but rather bluntly. It is okay to use a table saw to cut aluminum (using an aluminum-cutting saw blade), because the
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 14, 2013
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                    Mihai,

                    Scott makes a good point, but rather bluntly. It is okay to use a
                    table saw to cut aluminum (using an aluminum-cutting saw blade), because the
                    saw-teeth shear out small chips, and the remaining material does not get too
                    hot. This sawing process is also better than a tube-cutter on aluminum
                    tubing, because there is less bending stress on the metal being cut.

                    You need to know that the edge of a cutting disk will get very hot,
                    and melted metal will soak into the pores of the disk. This metal is being
                    driven into the disk edge under great force, and pressure will build up in
                    the cutting disk after making a few cuts. When this metal-pressure gets too
                    high, the disk will explode, and sharp pieces will be hurled in every
                    direction. This explosion can be very dangerous, especially to your eyes.
                    An eye shield will not be enough protection, there.

                    Please do not use a cutting disk on softer metals such as aluminum
                    or copper. Please verify this information with any metal-workers who live
                    in your area.

                    Rounding the corners and the edge-shaping of aluminum parts can be
                    done with a belt sander, because the belt will not "load up" with molten
                    metal, and the belt is soft enough to spit out metal shards. It will still
                    be necessary to cool the parts being worked on the belt-sander, by dipping
                    the part in a bowl of water, to prevent losing the temper of the metal.

                    Best wishes,
                    Red

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Scott Perkins
                    Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 4:35 PM
                    To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!

                    That all sounds very clever, I just want you to remember when you are
                    shaping aluminum bars with grinders etc. that if you let them get hot you
                    will have destroyed two thirds of their strength.

                    We just dont want you to ever be asking yourself
                    "why did that wing break?" while you are falling to earth.
                    Be careful and be safe
                    Scott

                    --- On Thu, 3/14/13, mish_dood <mihaiforna@...> wrote:
                    > From: mish_dood <mihaiforna@...>
                    > Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!
                    > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 5:21 PM
                    > Hellow ,
                    > I oused a small angle grinder to cut(with 1mm cuting disc) and grind
                    > (with sand paper disc) to final shape the parts, and i made around 8
                    > parts in 3 hours, in toatal i worked around 50 hours.
                    > I purchased a 2x2feet 1/8 thick sheet of 6061t6 and cut it
                    > with  guillotine to specified widh in the drawings, so
                    > i had 1/2, 3/4,... to 2 inch flat bars. All my parts made
                    > frome flat bars cost was 35 euro (the 2x2feet sheet), and
                    > had verry little scrap material.
                    > To drill perpendicular holes i buit a sliding braket for a
                    > power drill and basicly made up a driling machine, i have
                    > posted some pictures  the "romanian goat" in picture
                    > section.
                    > I buit myself all the jigs and tools to make my work
                    > easier.
                    > So be creative, think and you will find solutions.
                    >
                    > Best regarde , Mihai
                  • Richard Childs
                    When cutting aluminum tubing and flat stock with a table saw or radial arm, I have always used a carbide tip blade running backwards and have achieved very
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 14, 2013
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                      When cutting aluminum tubing and flat stock with a table saw or radial arm, I have always used a carbide tip blade running backwards and have achieved very smooth cuts, no chatter and less potential for the blade to grab the material being cut.  

                      --
                      Rich Childs,



                    • nicnicholson
                      Red, you probably meant this too, but I wanted to be more specific. NEVER use a rotary grinder to shape aluminum for exactly the same reason. Aluminum will
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 19, 2013
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                        Red, you probably meant this too, but I wanted to be more specific. NEVER use a rotary grinder to shape aluminum for exactly the same reason. Aluminum will embed into the grinder. Next time you grind steel, the aluminum gets hot, expands, and the wheel flies apart.

                        I've seen the photos of the aftermath, so don't do it.

                        People may not have pictured a grinder as being the same thing as a "cutting disk" and I thought it would be worth elaborating.

                        -nic

                        --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "red" <red@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Mihai,
                        >
                        > Scott makes a good point, but rather bluntly. It is okay to use a
                        > table saw to cut aluminum (using an aluminum-cutting saw blade), because the
                        > saw-teeth shear out small chips, and the remaining material does not get too
                        > hot. This sawing process is also better than a tube-cutter on aluminum
                        > tubing, because there is less bending stress on the metal being cut.
                        >
                        > You need to know that the edge of a cutting disk will get very hot,
                        > and melted metal will soak into the pores of the disk. This metal is being
                        > driven into the disk edge under great force, and pressure will build up in
                        > the cutting disk after making a few cuts. When this metal-pressure gets too
                        > high, the disk will explode, and sharp pieces will be hurled in every
                        > direction. This explosion can be very dangerous, especially to your eyes.
                        > An eye shield will not be enough protection, there.
                        >
                        > Please do not use a cutting disk on softer metals such as aluminum
                        > or copper. Please verify this information with any metal-workers who live
                        > in your area.
                        >
                        > Rounding the corners and the edge-shaping of aluminum parts can be
                        > done with a belt sander, because the belt will not "load up" with molten
                        > metal, and the belt is soft enough to spit out metal shards. It will still
                        > be necessary to cool the parts being worked on the belt-sander, by dipping
                        > the part in a bowl of water, to prevent losing the temper of the metal.
                        >
                        > Best wishes,
                        > Red
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com]
                        > On Behalf Of Scott Perkins
                        > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 4:35 PM
                        > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!
                        >
                        > That all sounds very clever, I just want you to remember when you are
                        > shaping aluminum bars with grinders etc. that if you let them get hot you
                        > will have destroyed two thirds of their strength.
                        >
                        > We just dont want you to ever be asking yourself
                        > "why did that wing break?" while you are falling to earth.
                        > Be careful and be safe
                        > Scott
                        >
                        > --- On Thu, 3/14/13, mish_dood <mihaiforna@...> wrote:
                        > > From: mish_dood <mihaiforna@...>
                        > > Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!
                        > > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 5:21 PM
                        > > Hellow ,
                        > > I oused a small angle grinder to cut(with 1mm cuting disc) and grind
                        > > (with sand paper disc) to final shape the parts, and i made around 8
                        > > parts in 3 hours, in toatal i worked around 50 hours.
                        > > I purchased a 2x2feet 1/8 thick sheet of 6061t6 and cut it
                        > > with  guillotine to specified widh in the drawings, so
                        > > i had 1/2, 3/4,... to 2 inch flat bars. All my parts made
                        > > frome flat bars cost was 35 euro (the 2x2feet sheet), and
                        > > had verry little scrap material.
                        > > To drill perpendicular holes i buit a sliding braket for a
                        > > power drill and basicly made up a driling machine, i have
                        > > posted some pictures  the "romanian goat" in picture
                        > > section.
                        > > I buit myself all the jigs and tools to make my work
                        > > easier.
                        > > So be creative, think and you will find solutions.
                        > >
                        > > Best regarde , Mihai
                        >
                      • nicnicholson
                        Mihai, your parts look great. I would love to see photos of any jigs you have made! Can you post photos? -nic
                        Message 11 of 28 , Mar 19, 2013
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                          Mihai, your parts look great.

                          I would love to see photos of any jigs you have made! Can you post photos?

                          -nic

                          --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "mish_dood" <mihaiforna@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hellow ,
                          > I oused a small angle grinder to cut(with 1mm cuting disc) and grind (with sand paper disc) to final shape the parts, and i made around 8 parts in 3 hours, in toatal i worked around 50 hours.
                          > I purchased a 2x2feet 1/8 thick sheet of 6061t6 and cut it with guillotine to specified widh in the drawings, so i had 1/2, 3/4,... to 2 inch flat bars. All my parts made frome flat bars cost was 35 euro (the 2x2feet sheet), and had verry little scrap material.
                          > To drill perpendicular holes i buit a sliding braket for a power drill and basicly made up a driling machine, i have posted some pictures the "romanian goat" in picture section.
                          > I buit myself all the jigs and tools to make my work easier.
                          > So be creative, think and you will find solutions.
                          >
                          > Best regarde , Mihai
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, Brian Huffaker <bifft@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, nicnicholson wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > All right Red, I have an answer for you!
                          > > >
                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/photos/album/1271044408/pic/426634716/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                          > > >
                          > > > That photo represents about 65 hours of work on the mill--about 230
                          > > > parts. I made a lot of them in double quantity because I'm intending to
                          > > > make a second plane down the line, for my son.
                          > > >
                          > > > I'd say, if you want to save a LOT of time, all of these parts "need"
                          > > > to be made on a mill. (I know that's not what you meant--it's true that
                          > > > a mill is not required.)
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > Nice looking parts. To help people quantify how much time the mill
                          > > saved, I've made lots of similar parts for my RV, using hacksaw, file and
                          > > drill. Takes 1/2 to 2 hours or so each, what with measuring, marking,
                          > > cutting, filing and drilling. I've thought about getting a mill, but in
                          > > addition to the mill cost, I would need to get the tooling. Building a
                          > > kit it doesn't seem like it would save enough time to justify the cost to
                          > > me. Even scratch building a goat, it is simple enough that I don't know
                          > > how I'd go. And as for selling after, I never seem to get rid of tools.
                          > > :)
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@)
                          > > RV-8A 80091 hooking up engine
                          > > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT down for overhaul
                          > >
                          >
                        • bhurlbutt2
                          I have a friend who was a welder in Alaska and worked on aluminum fishing boats. He used an angle grinder for surface prep. According to him, spaying the
                          Message 12 of 28 , Mar 20, 2013
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                            I have a friend who was a welder in Alaska and worked on aluminum fishing boats. He used an angle grinder for surface prep. According to him, spaying the disk with Pam keeps the aluminum from loading into the surface. I've never tried it, never needed to.

                            Bill

                            --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "nicnicholson" <nicnicholson@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Red, you probably meant this too, but I wanted to be more specific. NEVER use a rotary grinder to shape aluminum for exactly the same reason. Aluminum will embed into the grinder. Next time you grind steel, the aluminum gets hot, expands, and the wheel flies apart.
                            >
                            > I've seen the photos of the aftermath, so don't do it.
                            >
                            > People may not have pictured a grinder as being the same thing as a "cutting disk" and I thought it would be worth elaborating.
                            >
                            > -nic
                            >
                          • mish_dood
                            Hellow, Thank you, i will make some photos of my driling machine, cuting jigs, and braket for angle grinder for cuting. For shaping foam i have a 1 meter wide
                            Message 13 of 28 , Mar 21, 2013
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                              Hellow,

                              Thank you, i will make some photos of my driling machine, cuting jigs, and braket for angle grinder for cuting.
                              For shaping foam i have a 1 meter wide hot titanium whire cutter
                              home made.


                              --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "nicnicholson" <nicnicholson@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Mihai, your parts look great.
                              >
                              > I would love to see photos of any jigs you have made! Can you post photos?
                              >
                              > -nic
                              >
                              > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "mish_dood" <mihaiforna@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hellow ,
                              > > I oused a small angle grinder to cut(with 1mm cuting disc) and grind (with sand paper disc) to final shape the parts, and i made around 8 parts in 3 hours, in toatal i worked around 50 hours.
                              > > I purchased a 2x2feet 1/8 thick sheet of 6061t6 and cut it with guillotine to specified widh in the drawings, so i had 1/2, 3/4,... to 2 inch flat bars. All my parts made frome flat bars cost was 35 euro (the 2x2feet sheet), and had verry little scrap material.
                              > > To drill perpendicular holes i buit a sliding braket for a power drill and basicly made up a driling machine, i have posted some pictures the "romanian goat" in picture section.
                              > > I buit myself all the jigs and tools to make my work easier.
                              > > So be creative, think and you will find solutions.
                              > >
                              > > Best regarde , Mihai
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, Brian Huffaker <bifft@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, nicnicholson wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > All right Red, I have an answer for you!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/photos/album/1271044408/pic/426634716/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                              > > > >
                              > > > > That photo represents about 65 hours of work on the mill--about 230
                              > > > > parts. I made a lot of them in double quantity because I'm intending to
                              > > > > make a second plane down the line, for my son.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I'd say, if you want to save a LOT of time, all of these parts "need"
                              > > > > to be made on a mill. (I know that's not what you meant--it's true that
                              > > > > a mill is not required.)
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Nice looking parts. To help people quantify how much time the mill
                              > > > saved, I've made lots of similar parts for my RV, using hacksaw, file and
                              > > > drill. Takes 1/2 to 2 hours or so each, what with measuring, marking,
                              > > > cutting, filing and drilling. I've thought about getting a mill, but in
                              > > > addition to the mill cost, I would need to get the tooling. Building a
                              > > > kit it doesn't seem like it would save enough time to justify the cost to
                              > > > me. Even scratch building a goat, it is simple enough that I don't know
                              > > > how I'd go. And as for selling after, I never seem to get rid of tools.
                              > > > :)
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@)
                              > > > RV-8A 80091 hooking up engine
                              > > > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT down for overhaul
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • mish_dood
                              HEY, thank you for the info, i know that cutting aluminum with angle grinder issen t quite right, but i was verry verry caution, about heating when cutting
                              Message 14 of 28 , Mar 21, 2013
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                                HEY,
                                thank you for the info, i know that cutting aluminum with angle grinder issen't quite right, but i was verry verry caution, about heating when cutting and losing heat tretment, i diden't expect that, so i'l be carefull to chill the metal when gets hot (and not ouse angle grinder).
                                Verry good advince, thank you

                                --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "red" <red@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Mihai,
                                >
                                > Scott makes a good point, but rather bluntly. It is okay to use a
                                > table saw to cut aluminum (using an aluminum-cutting saw blade), because the
                                > saw-teeth shear out small chips, and the remaining material does not get too
                                > hot. This sawing process is also better than a tube-cutter on aluminum
                                > tubing, because there is less bending stress on the metal being cut.
                                >
                                > You need to know that the edge of a cutting disk will get very hot,
                                > and melted metal will soak into the pores of the disk. This metal is being
                                > driven into the disk edge under great force, and pressure will build up in
                                > the cutting disk after making a few cuts. When this metal-pressure gets too
                                > high, the disk will explode, and sharp pieces will be hurled in every
                                > direction. This explosion can be very dangerous, especially to your eyes.
                                > An eye shield will not be enough protection, there.
                                >
                                > Please do not use a cutting disk on softer metals such as aluminum
                                > or copper. Please verify this information with any metal-workers who live
                                > in your area.
                                >
                                > Rounding the corners and the edge-shaping of aluminum parts can be
                                > done with a belt sander, because the belt will not "load up" with molten
                                > metal, and the belt is soft enough to spit out metal shards. It will still
                                > be necessary to cool the parts being worked on the belt-sander, by dipping
                                > the part in a bowl of water, to prevent losing the temper of the metal.
                                >
                                > Best wishes,
                                > Red
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com]
                                > On Behalf Of Scott Perkins
                                > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 4:35 PM
                                > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!
                                >
                                > That all sounds very clever, I just want you to remember when you are
                                > shaping aluminum bars with grinders etc. that if you let them get hot you
                                > will have destroyed two thirds of their strength.
                                >
                                > We just dont want you to ever be asking yourself
                                > "why did that wing break?" while you are falling to earth.
                                > Be careful and be safe
                                > Scott
                                >
                                > --- On Thu, 3/14/13, mish_dood <mihaiforna@...> wrote:
                                > > From: mish_dood <mihaiforna@...>
                                > > Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!
                                > > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Date: Thursday, March 14, 2013, 5:21 PM
                                > > Hellow ,
                                > > I oused a small angle grinder to cut(with 1mm cuting disc) and grind
                                > > (with sand paper disc) to final shape the parts, and i made around 8
                                > > parts in 3 hours, in toatal i worked around 50 hours.
                                > > I purchased a 2x2feet 1/8 thick sheet of 6061t6 and cut it
                                > > with  guillotine to specified widh in the drawings, so
                                > > i had 1/2, 3/4,... to 2 inch flat bars. All my parts made
                                > > frome flat bars cost was 35 euro (the 2x2feet sheet), and
                                > > had verry little scrap material.
                                > > To drill perpendicular holes i buit a sliding braket for a
                                > > power drill and basicly made up a driling machine, i have
                                > > posted some pictures  the "romanian goat" in picture
                                > > section.
                                > > I buit myself all the jigs and tools to make my work
                                > > easier.
                                > > So be creative, think and you will find solutions.
                                > >
                                > > Best regarde , Mihai
                                >
                              • nicnicholson
                                For shaping foam i have a 1 meter wide hot titanium whire cutter home made. I want one of those! Where did you find titanium wire? -nic
                                Message 15 of 28 , Mar 21, 2013
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                                  "For shaping foam i have a 1 meter wide hot titanium whire cutter home made."

                                  I want one of those! Where did you find titanium wire?

                                  -nic

                                  --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "mish_dood" <mihaiforna@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hellow,
                                  >
                                  > Thank you, i will make some photos of my driling machine, cuting jigs, and braket for angle grinder for cuting.
                                  > For shaping foam i have a 1 meter wide hot titanium whire cutter
                                  > home made.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "nicnicholson" <nicnicholson@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Mihai, your parts look great.
                                  > >
                                  > > I would love to see photos of any jigs you have made! Can you post photos?
                                  > >
                                  > > -nic
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "mish_dood" <mihaiforna@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hellow ,
                                  > > > I oused a small angle grinder to cut(with 1mm cuting disc) and grind (with sand paper disc) to final shape the parts, and i made around 8 parts in 3 hours, in toatal i worked around 50 hours.
                                  > > > I purchased a 2x2feet 1/8 thick sheet of 6061t6 and cut it with guillotine to specified widh in the drawings, so i had 1/2, 3/4,... to 2 inch flat bars. All my parts made frome flat bars cost was 35 euro (the 2x2feet sheet), and had verry little scrap material.
                                  > > > To drill perpendicular holes i buit a sliding braket for a power drill and basicly made up a driling machine, i have posted some pictures the "romanian goat" in picture section.
                                  > > > I buit myself all the jigs and tools to make my work easier.
                                  > > > So be creative, think and you will find solutions.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Best regarde , Mihai
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, Brian Huffaker <bifft@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, nicnicholson wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > > All right Red, I have an answer for you!
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/photos/album/1271044408/pic/426634716/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > That photo represents about 65 hours of work on the mill--about 230
                                  > > > > > parts. I made a lot of them in double quantity because I'm intending to
                                  > > > > > make a second plane down the line, for my son.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > I'd say, if you want to save a LOT of time, all of these parts "need"
                                  > > > > > to be made on a mill. (I know that's not what you meant--it's true that
                                  > > > > > a mill is not required.)
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Nice looking parts. To help people quantify how much time the mill
                                  > > > > saved, I've made lots of similar parts for my RV, using hacksaw, file and
                                  > > > > drill. Takes 1/2 to 2 hours or so each, what with measuring, marking,
                                  > > > > cutting, filing and drilling. I've thought about getting a mill, but in
                                  > > > > addition to the mill cost, I would need to get the tooling. Building a
                                  > > > > kit it doesn't seem like it would save enough time to justify the cost to
                                  > > > > me. Even scratch building a goat, it is simple enough that I don't know
                                  > > > > how I'd go. And as for selling after, I never seem to get rid of tools.
                                  > > > > :)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@)
                                  > > > > RV-8A 80091 hooking up engine
                                  > > > > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT down for overhaul
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • mish_dood
                                  Hey, Well, i have it from a company that makes styrofoam blocks. I went there and asked with what do they cut the styrofoam, and they said titamnium whire and
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Mar 22, 2013
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                                    Hey,

                                    Well, i have it from a company that makes styrofoam blocks.
                                    I went there and asked with what do they cut the styrofoam, and they said titamnium whire and gave me a sample (3m).At 1 meter it needs 50V AC to cut foam , but you can go higher around 55 to 60v depending how dense is the foam, but don't get the whire red hot, it melts the foam around it.
                                    The bad side is that after around 150 cuts the whire lose its electrical propreties and does not heat that strong any more.
                                    The jig has the whire fixed at one end, and at the other is tensioned with a spring.
                                    This is all about it.

                                    --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "nicnicholson" <nicnicholson@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > "For shaping foam i have a 1 meter wide hot titanium whire cutter home made."
                                    >
                                    > I want one of those! Where did you find titanium wire?
                                    >
                                    > -nic
                                    >
                                    > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "mish_dood" <mihaiforna@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hellow,
                                    > >
                                    > > Thank you, i will make some photos of my driling machine, cuting jigs, and braket for angle grinder for cuting.
                                    > > For shaping foam i have a 1 meter wide hot titanium whire cutter
                                    > > home made.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "nicnicholson" <nicnicholson@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Mihai, your parts look great.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I would love to see photos of any jigs you have made! Can you post photos?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > -nic
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "mish_dood" <mihaiforna@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Hellow ,
                                    > > > > I oused a small angle grinder to cut(with 1mm cuting disc) and grind (with sand paper disc) to final shape the parts, and i made around 8 parts in 3 hours, in toatal i worked around 50 hours.
                                    > > > > I purchased a 2x2feet 1/8 thick sheet of 6061t6 and cut it with guillotine to specified widh in the drawings, so i had 1/2, 3/4,... to 2 inch flat bars. All my parts made frome flat bars cost was 35 euro (the 2x2feet sheet), and had verry little scrap material.
                                    > > > > To drill perpendicular holes i buit a sliding braket for a power drill and basicly made up a driling machine, i have posted some pictures the "romanian goat" in picture section.
                                    > > > > I buit myself all the jigs and tools to make my work easier.
                                    > > > > So be creative, think and you will find solutions.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Best regarde , Mihai
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, Brian Huffaker <bifft@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, nicnicholson wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > All right Red, I have an answer for you!
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/photos/album/1271044408/pic/426634716/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > That photo represents about 65 hours of work on the mill--about 230
                                    > > > > > > parts. I made a lot of them in double quantity because I'm intending to
                                    > > > > > > make a second plane down the line, for my son.
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > I'd say, if you want to save a LOT of time, all of these parts "need"
                                    > > > > > > to be made on a mill. (I know that's not what you meant--it's true that
                                    > > > > > > a mill is not required.)
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Nice looking parts. To help people quantify how much time the mill
                                    > > > > > saved, I've made lots of similar parts for my RV, using hacksaw, file and
                                    > > > > > drill. Takes 1/2 to 2 hours or so each, what with measuring, marking,
                                    > > > > > cutting, filing and drilling. I've thought about getting a mill, but in
                                    > > > > > addition to the mill cost, I would need to get the tooling. Building a
                                    > > > > > kit it doesn't seem like it would save enough time to justify the cost to
                                    > > > > > me. Even scratch building a goat, it is simple enough that I don't know
                                    > > > > > how I'd go. And as for selling after, I never seem to get rid of tools.
                                    > > > > > :)
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft@)
                                    > > > > > RV-8A 80091 hooking up engine
                                    > > > > > 1/4 Starduster II N23UT down for overhaul
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Scott Perkins
                                    I always thought nichrome ( nickle-chromium) wire was best for heating elements and electric heaters and foam cutting wire etc. Scott
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Mar 22, 2013
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                                      I always thought nichrome ( nickle-chromium) wire was best for
                                      heating elements and electric heaters and foam cutting wire etc.
                                      Scott

                                      --- On Fri, 3/22/13, mish_dood <mihaiforna@...> wrote:

                                      > From: mish_dood <mihaiforna@...>
                                      > Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!
                                      > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Friday, March 22, 2013, 2:41 PM
                                      > Hey,
                                      >
                                      > Well, i have it from a company that makes styrofoam blocks.
                                      > I went there and asked with what do they cut the styrofoam,
                                      > and they said titamnium whire and gave me a sample (3m).At 1
                                      > meter it needs 50V AC to cut foam , but you can go higher
                                      > around 55 to 60v depending how dense is the foam, but don't
                                      > get the whire red hot, it melts the foam around it.
                                      > The bad side is that after around 150 cuts the whire lose
                                      > its electrical propreties and does not heat that strong any
                                      > more.
                                      > The jig has the whire fixed at one end, and at the other is
                                      > tensioned with a spring.
                                      > This is all about it.
                                      >
                                      > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com,
                                      > "nicnicholson" <nicnicholson@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > "For shaping foam i have a 1 meter wide hot titanium
                                      > whire cutter home made."
                                      > >
                                      > > I want one of those!  Where did you find titanium
                                      > wire?
                                      > >
                                      > > -nic
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com,
                                      > "mish_dood" <mihaiforna@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Hellow,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thank you, i will make some photos of my driling
                                      > machine, cuting jigs, and braket for angle grinder for
                                      > cuting.
                                      > > > For shaping foam i have a 1 meter wide hot
                                      > titanium whire cutter
                                      > > > home made.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com,
                                      > "nicnicholson" <nicnicholson@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Mihai, your parts look great.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I would love to see photos of any jigs you
                                      > have made!  Can you post photos?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > -nic
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com,
                                      > "mish_dood" <mihaiforna@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Hellow ,
                                      > > > > > I oused a small angle grinder to
                                      > cut(with 1mm cuting disc) and grind (with sand paper disc)
                                      > to final shape the parts, and i made around 8 parts in 3
                                      > hours, in toatal i worked around 50 hours.
                                      > > > > > I purchased a 2x2feet 1/8 thick sheet of
                                      > 6061t6 and cut it with  guillotine to specified widh in
                                      > the drawings, so i had 1/2, 3/4,... to 2 inch flat bars. All
                                      > my parts made frome flat bars cost was 35 euro (the 2x2feet
                                      > sheet), and had verry little scrap material.
                                      > > > > > To drill perpendicular holes i buit a
                                      > sliding braket for a power drill and basicly made up a
                                      > driling machine, i have posted some pictures  the
                                      > "romanian goat" in picture section.
                                      > > > > > I buit myself all the jigs and tools to
                                      > make my work easier.
                                      > > > > > So be creative, think and you will find
                                      > solutions.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Best regarde , Mihai
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com,
                                      > Brian Huffaker <bifft@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, nicnicholson
                                      > wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > All right Red, I have an
                                      > answer for you!
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/photos/album/1271044408/pic/426634716/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > That photo represents about 65
                                      > hours of work on the mill--about 230
                                      > > > > > > > parts.  I made a lot of
                                      > them in double quantity because I'm intending to
                                      > > > > > > > make a second plane down the
                                      > line, for my son.
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > I'd say, if you want to save a
                                      > LOT of time, all of these parts "need"
                                      > > > > > > > to be made on a mill.  (I
                                      > know that's not what you meant--it's true that
                                      > > > > > > > a mill is not required.)
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >   Nice looking
                                      > parts.  To help people quantify how much time the mill
                                      > > > > > > saved, I've made lots of similar
                                      > parts for my RV, using hacksaw, file and
                                      > > > > > > drill.  Takes 1/2 to 2 hours
                                      > or so each, what with measuring, marking,
                                      > > > > > > cutting, filing and drilling. 
                                      > I've thought about getting a mill, but in
                                      > > > > > > addition to the mill cost, I would
                                      > need to get the tooling.  Building a
                                      > > > > > > kit it doesn't seem like it would
                                      > save enough time to justify the cost to
                                      > > > > > > me.  Even scratch building a
                                      > goat, it is simple enough that I don't know
                                      > > > > > > how I'd go.  And as for
                                      > selling after, I never seem to get rid of tools.
                                      > > > > > > :)
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >   Brian Huffaker,
                                      > DSWL (bifft@)
                                      > > > > > >   RV-8A 80091 
                                      > hooking up engine
                                      > > > > > >   1/4 Starduster II
                                      > N23UT down for overhaul
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > .
                                      > .
                                      > Link to Airchair main page for archives, files and photos
                                      >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/
                                      > .
                                      > Link to Mike Sandlin's BUG (Basic Ultralight Glider)
                                      > website
                                      > http://m-sandlin.info/
                                      > .
                                      > Link to Wikipedia Airchair
                                      > http://airchairbuild.wikidot.com/
                                      > .
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >     Airchairgroup-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • David Downey
                                      used because it is oxidation resistant and takes the high load for keeping the wire taut while red hot. I never used anything thicker than 0.025 though... And
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Mar 22, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        used because it is oxidation resistant and takes the high load for keeping the wire taut while red hot. I never used anything thicker than 0.025" though... And a nice rheostat works better than Burt Rutan's wire loom voltage divider to tune the amperage through the wire...
                                        Deividi (Downey) 215-527-5899
                                        Quando a saudade nao cabe no peito transborda nos olhos! Oi Brasil!


                                        From: Scott Perkins <2scott@...>
                                        To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 2:48 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!

                                         
                                        I always thought nichrome ( nickle-chromium) wire was best for
                                        heating elements and electric heaters and foam cutting wire etc.
                                        Scott

                                        --- On Fri, 3/22/13, mish_dood <mihaiforna@...> wrote:

                                        > From: mish_dood <mihaiforna@...>
                                        > Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: Hey everyone!
                                        > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Friday, March 22, 2013, 2:41 PM
                                        > Hey,
                                        >
                                        > Well, i have it from a company that makes styrofoam blocks.
                                        > I went there and asked with what do they cut the styrofoam,
                                        > and they said titamnium whire and gave me a sample (3m).At 1
                                        > meter it needs 50V AC to cut foam , but you can go higher
                                        > around 55 to 60v depending how dense is the foam, but don't
                                        > get the whire red hot, it melts the foam around it.
                                        > The bad side is that after around 150 cuts the whire lose
                                        > its electrical propreties and does not heat that strong any
                                        > more.
                                        > The jig has the whire fixed at one end, and at the other is
                                        > tensioned with a spring.
                                        > This is all about it.
                                        >
                                        > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > "nicnicholson" <nicnicholson@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > "For shaping foam i have a 1 meter wide hot titanium
                                        > whire cutter home made."
                                        > >
                                        > > I want one of those!  Where did you find titanium
                                        > wire?
                                        > >
                                        > > -nic
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > "mish_dood" <mihaiforna@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hellow,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Thank you, i will make some photos of my driling
                                        > machine, cuting jigs, and braket for angle grinder for
                                        > cuting.
                                        > > > For shaping foam i have a 1 meter wide hot
                                        > titanium whire cutter
                                        > > > home made.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > "nicnicholson" <nicnicholson@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Mihai, your parts look great.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I would love to see photos of any jigs you
                                        > have made!  Can you post photos?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > -nic
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > "mish_dood" <mihaiforna@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Hellow ,
                                        > > > > > I oused a small angle grinder to
                                        > cut(with 1mm cuting disc) and grind (with sand paper disc)
                                        > to final shape the parts, and i made around 8 parts in 3
                                        > hours, in toatal i worked around 50 hours.
                                        > > > > > I purchased a 2x2feet 1/8 thick sheet of
                                        > 6061t6 and cut it with  guillotine to specified widh in
                                        > the drawings, so i had 1/2, 3/4,... to 2 inch flat bars. All
                                        > my parts made frome flat bars cost was 35 euro (the 2x2feet
                                        > sheet), and had verry little scrap material.
                                        > > > > > To drill perpendicular holes i buit a
                                        > sliding braket for a power drill and basicly made up a
                                        > driling machine, i have posted some pictures  the
                                        > "romanian goat" in picture section.
                                        > > > > > I buit myself all the jigs and tools to
                                        > make my work easier.
                                        > > > > > So be creative, think and you will find
                                        > solutions.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Best regarde , Mihai
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > Brian Huffaker <bifft@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, nicnicholson
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > All right Red, I have an
                                        > answer for you!
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/photos/album/1271044408/pic/426634716/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > That photo represents about 65
                                        > hours of work on the mill--about 230
                                        > > > > > > > parts.  I made a lot of
                                        > them in double quantity because I'm intending to
                                        > > > > > > > make a second plane down the
                                        > line, for my son.
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > I'd say, if you want to save a
                                        > LOT of time, all of these parts "need"
                                        > > > > > > > to be made on a mill.  (I
                                        > know that's not what you meant--it's true that
                                        > > > > > > > a mill is not required.)
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >   Nice looking
                                        > parts.  To help people quantify how much time the mill
                                        > > > > > > saved, I've made lots of similar
                                        > parts for my RV, using hacksaw, file and
                                        > > > > > > drill.  Takes 1/2 to 2 hours
                                        > or so each, what with measuring, marking,
                                        > > > > > > cutting, filing and drilling. 
                                        > I've thought about getting a mill, but in
                                        > > > > > > addition to the mill cost, I would
                                        > need to get the tooling.  Building a
                                        > > > > > > kit it doesn't seem like it would
                                        > save enough time to justify the cost to
                                        > > > > > > me.  Even scratch building a
                                        > goat, it is simple enough that I don't know
                                        > > > > > > how I'd go.  And as for
                                        > selling after, I never seem to get rid of tools.
                                        > > > > > > :)
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >   Brian Huffaker,
                                        > DSWL (bifft@)
                                        > > > > > >   RV-8A 80091 
                                        > hooking up engine
                                        > > > > > >   1/4 Starduster II
                                        > N23UT down for overhaul
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > .
                                        > .
                                        > Link to Airchair main page for archives, files and photos
                                        >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Airchairgroup/
                                        > .
                                        > Link to Mike Sandlin's BUG (Basic Ultralight Glider)
                                        > website
                                        > http://m-sandlin.info/
                                        > .
                                        > Link to Wikipedia Airchair
                                        > http://airchairbuild.wikidot.com/
                                        > .
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >     Airchairgroup-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        >


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