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Re: [Airchairgroup] Re: An Air Chair in France?

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  • Paul Dewhurst
    I asked my friend who is involved in the microlight association (FFPLUM) in France and this is his reply: Hi Paul, sorry for this late response. here is the
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 2, 2010
      
      I asked my friend who is involved in the microlight association (FFPLUM) in France and this is his reply:
       
      Hi Paul,
      sorry for this late response. here is the French definition of the PUL (Planeurs Ultra Légers or Ultralight Gliders)

      Arrêté/DGAC du 07/10/85 publié au J.O. du 01/11/85 p.12665.
      « Article 1 : Est dit planeur ultraléger un aéronef non motopropulsé, apte à décoller ou atterrir aisément en utilisant l’énergie musculaire du pilote et l’énergie potentielle ».
      « Article 2 : Les PUL sont dispensés de document de navigabilité. »
      « Article 3 : La réglementation relative aux conditions générales d’utilisation des aéronefs n’est pas applicable au PUL. »

      Roughly translated its mean :
      Arrêté/DGAC of the 07/10/85 published in the OJ of the 01/11/85 p.12665.
      “Article 1: Is known as ultralight glider an aircraft not motorised, capable to take off or land easily by using the muscular energy of the pilot and the potential energy”.
      “Article 2: The ULG are exempted of navigability. document ”
      “Article 3: The regulation relating to the general terms of use of the aircraft is not applicable to the ULG. ”


      As you can see all the interpretation rest on the terms "take off or land easily by using muscular energy of the pilot  and ...". A lot of people think its mean that you must carry the glider by yourself.and land on your feet. In my mind it is not so clear ! The text use "or" between take off and land easily, so you had only to comply with one of this two conditions. But It use "and" between "muscular energy of the pilot" and "potential energy"so you must use the to combined mean for take off or landing.
      As the text doesn't define the quantity of muscular energy you must use, it may tend towards zero or be stocked by any mean. So, for exemple, you can take of on wheels with your feet used as brakes and for initial movement.
      Finally my response will be an "airchair glider" in France is not submitted to licence, airworthiness regulation or registration.  This interpretation must be tested against our administration and I am confident that it will be accepted. The Archoepterix is for example already allowed to fly in France as a PUL.
      Hope all this will help you !
      regards
      Phil


       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:20 PM
      Subject: Re: [Airchairgroup] Re: An Air Chair in France?

       

      Hi Bob,

      I was thinking to test fly the Goat first the same way as in my hang glider time (looong time ago),  in the training hill, unti I feel confident (ot tired to pull up hill :-). 

      About powered take off,  I was planning to install a little tail wheel and take off, like the Croatian Glider, just enough initial speed to have elevator response, then "learn" to keep the glider neutral over the main wheel until take off speed,   given the slow speeds of the Goats, I think is not a dangerous thing to experiment, learn and practice...   

      Probably also  take off by towing or hang glider ramp and use the power when there is no lift...

      Time will say...

      Gary.

      --- On Fri, 11/5/10, Bob Anderson <bob@...> wrote:

      From: Bob Anderson <bob@...>
      Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: An Air Chair in France?
      To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, November 5, 2010, 5:20 PM

       

      Hi Gary
      The only project that I have on the go is clearing the "crap" out of my garage to make room so that I can get started !!

      I reckon that the paraglider backpack idea would work fine.

      Another thing to think of is how to keep the plane steady at the beginning of the roll before take-off. The same problème will occur during taxi testing.

      Bob

      --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, Gary Gower <triker_mx@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Bob,
      >  
      > When time comes for me to build my Goat...  (Need first to finish a couple of projects to get space),
      >  
      > I am planning to build some suport behind the seat back to "fast bolt" a portable powered parachute engine, the ones that strap to the back of the pilot. There are some good ones around 20 HP.
      >  
      > Yes a powered Goat could be great.   I dont see too much drag of the stoped propeller in a Goat...  But sure can be easy aligned to the "fuselage".
      >  
      > Probably my next year project, 
      >  
      > Gary.
      >  
      >
      > --- On Thu, 11/4/10, Bob Anderson <bob@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Bob Anderson <bob@...>
      > Subject: Re: [Airchairgroup] Re: An Air Chair in France ?
      > To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Thursday, November 4, 2010, 7:58 PM
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > Mike
      > Thanks for your reply and the news on the Bloop page.
      > Both here and on your site, you have, I think, answered a couple of my questions.
      > On the site you wrote :
      > "One time I cut the power suddenly and dropped onto the wheels surprisingly fast, doing a little bounce. I didn't expect an engine this small (15 hp.) to produce such a dramatic response to a power cut. High drag is part of this, of course. The Bloop is, indeed, a flying bird cage with a built in headwind."
      > Here you wrote :
      > "I don't expect to satisfy pilots who want speed, 
      > cold weather shelter, sailplane style soaring, or even 
      > quick dissassembly."
      >
      >
      > To tell you the truth, Mike, I am really taken with the idea of learning to fly an ultralight glider ! 
      > I can't use one of yours in France without putting a small low powered engine onto it and calling it a powered microlight. If I do that, the engine is just for getting to the soaring "zone" and the glider has got to retain its performance when the engine is cut.
      > I also want to keep it at home so it would be assembled before and disassembled after each flight.
      >
      >
      > A "Motor Goat" would seem a better bet than the Bloop. The motor tucked in behind the pilot should create less drag and if the prop can be aligned vertically when it is stopped, so much the better. It would also be easier to disassemble with the engine attached to the front section.
      > Just a question mark about the prop wash on the tail...
      >
      >
      > As for the 2 axis versus 3 axis question, the answer from my point of view is simple.
      > I am told that 2 axis are easier and safer to fly but as I will continue (from time to time) to fly a conventional 3 axis microlight such as the Skyranger, it seems to me to be simpler if I have the same type of controls on the glider. 
      > And of course, I don't know how to land a 2 axis plane in a crosswind !
      >
      >
      > Bob Anderson Colmar France
      >
      >
      > 2010/11/3 ¹Î¼® <ms7525@...>
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > This is a good wish list, I like to know what pilots want.
      > My airplane is still in development, so I don't have many
      > answers.
      >
      > My real emphasis with the Bloop is on low airspeed,
      > low power flying, which makes it a kind of specialty
      > aircraft. I don't expect to satisfy pilots who want speed,
      > cold weather shelter, sailplane style soaring, or even
      > quick dissassembly.
      >
      > More news: went to full power, etc. see Bloop Page.
      >
      > I would like to know why two axis control is okay for
      > paragliders but not airplanes. Is it just that no really
      > impressive use of two axis airplane controls has come along?
      >
      > Mike Sandlin....San Diego California
      >
      >
      > --- In Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Anderson" <bob@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi
      > > My name is Bob Anderson ...
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      > > So, what to do now ?
      > > In the short term, I will keep renting the Sky Ranger that I did my training in to keep my hand in.
      > > In the medium to long term, however, I am not in a financial position to buy a plane or to keep it at my local airport (hanger space at 100€ a month, landing fees 10€ a go,...) so,
      > >
      > > - I need an aircraft that I can build and keep at home in my small garage (5m x 4m),
      > > - I want to keep costs down,
      > > - I don't want to spend years building it,
      > > - it has to be simple to make with easy to follow plans,
      > > - it has to be motorized as I don't have a glider license (no FAA Part 103 here in France !) ,
      > > - I would like to make the most of the local assets (the Vosges mountains) as I flew paragliders there in the (distant) past and loved the feeling of liberty that it gave me until an unfortunate accident over 20 years ago put an end to that.
      > > - the idea of being able to get up to where the lift is and then cut the motor while having the option of restarting it if required appeals to my need for safety.
      > >
      > > The BUG site has been a mine of information and I am certain that the solution is in there but I am faced with a bit of a dilemma â€" Bloop, Goat or Bug ?
      > >
      > > The motorized Bloop might be an viable option for me but :
      > > - it's a 2 axis and I really want to continue flying with a 3 axis,
      > > - I wondered if it's performance is as good as the others as it was designed as a beginners glider where stability and easy piloting are the priority,
      > > - I really like the idea of a single wheel rather that 2 on the Bloop although this is not vital.
      > >
      > > So what about keeping the Bloop top wing profile more or less as it is while adding on ailerons and (why not) flaps, to make it 3 axis, as well as adding more surface to compensate for the extra weight (the motor and my 185 lds !) ?
      > > Or perhaps a motorized B4 with a Bloop type tail to avoid the prop wash ?
      > >
      > > If Mike Sandlin reads this, I would greatly appreciate more news about your taxi (or flying) tests with the motorized Bloop.
      > >
      > > The Red Goat with a motor looks good (Goat 1 in Aus- MOTORIZED in the photo section) but what about the prop wash on the tail ?
      > > The photos are dated from august, have you guys got any further towards getting it into the air ?
      > > I would love to have any info on your progress.
      > >
      > > A bit long, so thanks for reading this far !
      > > Looking forward to your comments.
      > > Bob
      > >
      >


    • Toni Wiendl
      Dear all As some of you still did not see the video, please, follow the link below http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgOR5PLTn84 It is always good to remmember
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 2, 2010
        Dear all

        As some of you still did not see the video, please, follow the link below

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgOR5PLTn84

        It is always good to remmember how fast things can go wrong. Specially if you are using a glider which is not designed for the work you push it to do.

        Fortunatelly, nothing serious occured with the pilot but, it could be diferent.
        Be cautious in your flights.

        Kind regards

           Toni, future Goat constructor from Brazil
          

      • Bob Anderson
        As I posted in another thread : The problem of course is that even if an airchair is in the Vol Libre or Free flight (as in un-motorised) category I could
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 3, 2010
          As I posted in another thread :
          The problem of course is that even if an airchair is in the "Vol Libre" or "Free flight" (as in un-motorised) category I could only fly one if I had insurance cover.
          The only realistic option for insurance cover is via the "Fédération Française de Vol Libre" and they will only insure you if you are training for, or have passed, your federation licence (not my case !)

          My Motorised Ultra Light license and an airchair with a small light moter still seems my best bet for inexpensive, fun, safe flying without having to get an extra qualification.

          I'm still looking at the red goat (with wings made in 2 parts) or the bug4 'cause I just love the bi-plane look and the wings are shorter so they'll fit into my work space.
          I'll probably spend quite some time just scratching my head and thinking about it before deciding ...

          Bob
        • Gary Gower
          Lets remember that we dont get any younger every year... ... From: Bob Anderson Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: An Air Chair in France?
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 3, 2010
            Lets remember that we dont get any younger every year...


            --- On Fri, 12/3/10, Bob Anderson <bob@...> wrote:

            From: Bob Anderson <bob@...>
            Subject: [Airchairgroup] Re: An Air Chair in France?
            To: Airchairgroup@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 11:14 AM

             

            As I posted in another thread :
            The problem of course is that even if an airchair is in the "Vol Libre" or "Free flight" (as in un-motorised) category I could only fly one if I had insurance cover.
            The only realistic option for insurance cover is via the "Fédération Française de Vol Libre" and they will only insure you if you are training for, or have passed, your federation licence (not my case !)

            My Motorised Ultra Light license and an airchair with a small light moter still seems my best bet for inexpensive, fun, safe flying without having to get an extra qualification.

            I'm still looking at the red goat (with wings made in 2 parts) or the bug4 'cause I just love the bi-plane look and the wings are shorter so they'll fit into my work space.
            I'll probably spend quite some time just scratching my head and thinking about it before deciding ...

            Bob


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