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Challenge: Dynamic length-variable power-transferring endless-loop conveyor

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  • Joe Faust
    Challenge: Dynamic length-variable power-transferring endless-loop conveyor Assume AWECS is transferring power to ground via endless loop conveyor cable and
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 17, 2010
      Challenge: Dynamic length-variable power-transferring endless-loop conveyor

      Assume AWECS is transferring power to ground via endless loop conveyor cable and driving an electric genertor. Without taking up much ground space, provide cost-effective mechanical solution that allows non-stop loop movement for driving generator while the net sky-sector length of the working tether is let out and in for launch, work, change to effective altitudes, and flight termination. Use the endless loop both for main tether as well as for transferring power from aloft. The aloft driven line drives a ground generator. Long adjustments are sought.

      Easy known methods that use much land area are known. What is sought is a tight low-ground-area-costing solution that would allow 1000 m adjustment of in-sky sector of the working tether.

      Working vision: Aloft wind turbines are driving the tether (endless loop). While the low-altitude working system remains dynamic, let out more tether to reach sweeter winds, or at times bring in tether to reach target altitudes or target winds. Winching while working : WWW. Solutions for control-line AWECS have been used, but not known to me is a small-land-footprint solution for dynamic length-variable power-transferring endless loop conveyor.
    • brooksdesign
      I ve been working on a solution to that problem for several years now and only recently come up with a solution which may or may not be cost effective, I still
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 17, 2010
        I've been working on a solution to that problem for several years now and only recently come up with a solution which may or may not be cost effective, I still need to CAD it up to get a better idea of the practicality but in theory it works.  I still have to get the concept witnessed when I get a break in the survival obligations but its on the list of things to do. Its all part of that universal system thing I'm working on.
        -brooks


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Joe Faust
        Sent: Jan 17, 2010 10:33 AM
        To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [AWECS] Challenge: Dynamic length-variable power-transferring endless-loop conveyor

         

        Challenge: Dynamic length-variable power-transferring endless-loop conveyor

        Assume AWECS is transferring power to ground via endless loop conveyor cable and driving an electric genertor. Without taking up much ground space, provide cost-effective mechanical solution that allows non-stop loop movement for driving generator while the net sky-sector length of the working tether is let out and in for launch, work, change to effective altitudes, and flight termination. Use the endless loop both for main tether as well as for transferring power from aloft. The aloft driven line drives a ground generator. Long adjustments are sought.

        Easy known methods that use much land area are known. What is sought is a tight low-ground-area- costing solution that would allow 1000 m adjustment of in-sky sector of the working tether.

        Working vision: Aloft wind turbines are driving the tether (endless loop). While the low-altitude working system remains dynamic, let out more tether to reach sweeter winds, or at times bring in tether to reach target altitudes or target winds. Winching while working : WWW. Solutions for control-line AWECS have been used, but not known to me is a small-land-footprin t solution for dynamic length-variable power-transferring endless loop conveyor.

        
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      • Joe Faust
        Great Brooks, Will await your solution. .....I took a break after reading your reply post and sat by a waterfall and saw the following: Two hours ago I found
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 17, 2010
          Great Brooks,
          Will await your solution.

          .....I took a break after reading your reply post and sat by a waterfall and saw the following:

          Two hours ago I found a fairly-low footprint for one way to keep haul out endless working loop while keeping it working, but I do not yet see beyond manually doing it; I'll be trusting M.E.s to fill in. A horizontal box holding a gang free-wheeling pulleys at one end fixed; and then at the other end a gang of free-wheeling pulleys not-perma fixed but movable by control and anchorable to a position when wanted. Box is 10 m long and perhaps 1 m square cross-section depending on scale and forces intended. The one side of endless loop weaves left and right, left-and right through 100 set. The moving line moves through all the pulleys driven by aloft driving turbine. When one wants the in-sky sector of the tether to haul out10 m, then let move one of the 100 movable pulleys toward the other end of the box while stopping its move just before touching the other end of the box where the fixed gang of pulley are; to let out another 10 m into the sky, move another boxed movable pulley and set its position just short of interfacing with the other end of the box. Etc. 1000 m can be let out even while the endless loop keeps being driven and driving a generator. Reeling in works in reverse. This is essentially a multiple use of mechanics implied in a extendable conveyor belt patent that is in public domain. I am only seeing my hands doing the releasing for move of the movable pulleys and setting the positions by a tensioner line that is anchored to the one end of the box. Getting servos to do the job would need teamwork for design. It will be fun to find out what Brooks has that he has not yet described to us....that he announced in reply to my post.
          Lift,
          JoeF
          cc: BrooksDesign

          ..........
        • Joe Faust
          A variant solution seems to be hinted within an AWECS patent drawing, if one was just to multiple the grab, not far from what I visioned a day or so ago:
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 19, 2010

            A variant solution seems to be hinted within an AWECS patent drawing, if one was just to multiple the grab, not far from what I visioned a day or so ago:

             

          • brooksdesign
            I considered this in detail and it could work but the number of pulleys required to be effective on a long loop scale could introduce allot of friction into
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 19, 2010
              I considered this in detail and it could work but the number of pulleys required to be effective on a long loop scale could introduce allot of friction into the system....unless the distance between them was really long for retraction.
              -brooks


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Joe Faust
              Sent: Jan 19, 2010 5:51 PM
              To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [AWECS] Challenge: Dynamic length-variable power-transferring endless-loop conveyor

               

              A variant solution seems to be hinted within an AWECS patent drawing, if one was just to multiple the grab, not far from what I visioned a day or so ago:

               

              
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            • Robert Stuart
              That s the only one I ve been able to think of either. Each idler usually costs a percent or so, depending on your belt type. Metal is best, with a loss of
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 19, 2010
                That's the only one I've been able to think of either. Each idler usually costs a percent or so, depending on your belt type. Metal is best, with a loss of 1% in a basic drive, and so, much less than 1% per idler. The number of loops can be kept down with a long travel, which would argue for a vertical mineshaft. At the bottom, we could have the lower reservoir for a hyrdopower storage arrangement. Using the wind power directly for pumping water up would reduce the need to reduce fluctuations.

                Bob Stuart

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Joe Faust <joefaust333@...>
                Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 5:51 pm
                Subject: Re: [AWECS] Challenge: Dynamic length-variable power-transferring endless-loop conveyor

                >
                > A variant solution seems to be hinted within an AWECS patent
                > drawing, if
                > one was just to multiple the grab, not far from what I visioned a
                > day or
                > so ago:
                >
                >
                >
                > <http://www.google.com/patents?id=ngk4AAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PA5&ci=213%2C48\
                > 8%2C205%2C629&source=bookclip>
                >
              • Dan
                Hi Joe and Group, I envision something far simpler, lighter involving four pulleys max. Note one pulley will drive Genny. The one pulley drive at the top would
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 20, 2010
                  Hi Joe and Group,

                  I envision something far simpler, lighter involving four pulleys max. Note one pulley will drive Genny. The one pulley drive at the top would somehow stay paralell with pulley, many configs for that, any ideas?

                  Dan'l

                  --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Faust" <joefaust333@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > A variant solution seems to be hinted within an AWECS patent drawing, if
                  > one was just to multiple the grab, not far from what I visioned a day or
                  > so ago:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > <http://www.google.com/patents?id=ngk4AAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PA5&ci=213%2C48\
                  > 8%2C205%2C629&source=bookclip>
                  >
                • Joe Faust
                  Dan Parker of SpiralAirfoil Airborne pointed to using off-ground hold of a fourth pulley held by anchored control line. Having the off-ground hold of the long
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 20, 2010
                    Dan Parker of SpiralAirfoil Airborne pointed to using off-ground hold of a fourth pulley held by anchored control line. Having the off-ground hold of the long 1000 meter endless loop for letting out and hauling in. Such solution is saying that the full ground, sans the poles's bases, overcomes the "ground footprint" part of the challenge. He further noted to me in off-group message that the very electrical distribution high lines and pole holders could be considered for holding and controlling the AWECS working loop. This seems to be an in-air solution somewhat like Bob Stuart's in-hole (double using deep hydro banking) hold of the few pulley solution. Total AWECS endless-loop that stays working during outhaul and inhauling: four pulleys; set the generator as wanted, perhaps using one of the pulley points.

                    Dan also noted that when a canyon is available, then the sides of the canyons might hold the long endless loop before feeding the loop to the sky.

                    Double use assets.

                    ....


                    --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <spiralairfoil@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Joe and Group,
                    >
                    > I envision something far simpler, lighter involving four pulleys max. Note one pulley will drive Genny. The one pulley drive at the top would somehow stay paralell with pulley, many configs for that, any ideas?
                    >
                    > Dan'l
                    >
                  • brooksdesign
                    This is the method I have been working on. It is meant as a method to transfer the mechanical energy from any rotating pulley system to the ground via and
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 23, 2010
                      This is the method I have been working on. It is meant as a method to transfer the mechanical energy from any rotating pulley system to the ground via and endless loop of variable length. The length of the loop can be changed while in operation.

                      http://www.energykitesystems.net/ZapKites/endlessloopspool50.html


                      I'll post an animation of the device in operation when time permits.

                      -brooks
                      
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