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Re: [AWES] Airborne Seaborne Wind Energy System

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  • Pierre BENHAIEM
    DaveB, The questions I m thinking about are, what is the best survival posture when in rest position? Does the generator location point move itself into an
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 4, 2012

      DaveB,

       

      "The questions I'm thinking about are, what is the best survival posture when in rest position? Does the generator location point move itself into an upwind position keeping the leading edge down? 
      You are showing a slender torus section in the model. Have you thought about what pressures you will need in the Tensairity tubes for various wheel sizes? Maybe more spokes will be needed for the largest wheels."

       

      Good questions,as usual.I shall have more complete responses after making a prototype or at least a POC.For this scheme the control of tethers and cables is very important.The floating mast has also its submarine cable,tethers wich axial main tether are in their winches  inside the mast at bottom position.A good management of mast cable will make vary its tensile allowing an amplitude of oscillations in rapport to the torus,that by analysis of waves at different places.

       

      In case of storm,yes,the station is put in upwind position.In case of low wind,the station (moving always vith the rotor) is put in downwind position to allow the rotor rearing and making production.Although forces on the rotor can be enough to move according all wind directions (at the anchor place there is a pivot),I prefer the floating station has its own propeller as supplement mean of control.

       

      As I prefer semi-rigid blades (maybe done by sections by extrusion),blades are also spokes.But the main holding is with suspentes.

       

      You can see that in the proposed scheme all is used:gravity,drag and lift,counter forces (tethers and station cable) to maintain the rotor,control of tethers (suspentes) and cables,mix of semi-rigid parts (blades for efficiency,and also torus) and soft rotor maintened by suspentes,variations of floating forces...

       

      The pressure into Tensairity torus is a point to clarify up.Usually for Tensairity the pressure is low.Although stalks as roads have some rigidity allowing a more efficient rolling conversion,the pressure has to be sufficient facilitating torus passing into the station without losses of efficiency.It is the raison why a rigid torus with small section can be prefered,the rigidity of the whole rotor being insured by suspentes.

       

      This year I shall try making a POC,if possible with sponsors.

       

      PierreB

      http://wheelwind.com

      http://flygenkite.com  

       




      > Message du 04/09/12 07:03
      > De : "dbmurr@..."
      > A : AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      > Copie à :
      > Objet : Re: [AWES] Airborne Seaborne Wind Energy System
      >
      >  

      > Pierre,

      I think I understand how your take-0ff mode works now, and I believe it will fly well. 
      I'm wondering what degrees of sea state would start to cause structural damage due to slapping, bouncing & whipping motions in either the rest or flight modes, creating cyclic fatigue? Varied sea states are possible, depending on the size of the apparatus, but I can see that testing may prove that small wheels survive well because they are strong, and large wheels survive longer due to size relationships with wave action. But, some middle scale wheel may quickly fail in a given body of water's typical wavelength & height conditions.
      The questions I'm thinking about are, what is the best survival posture when in rest position? Does the generator location point move itself into an upwind position keeping the leading edge down? 
      You are showing a slender torus section in the model. Have you thought about what pressures you will need in the Tensairity tubes for various wheel sizes? Maybe more spokes will be needed for the largest wheels. 
      Also, what type of connectors are you thinking of between a spoke/blade and the toroid?
      DaveB

      >

      > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Pierre BENHAIEM wrote:
      > >
      > > Due to the floating mast (one can see it on the animation) and the floating station (see the message below) only the opposite part of a huge torus tilts towards water level (the animation does not show it) but without strong force thanks to the floating mast.After it is a problem of measure for the height of mast regarding torus tilting during rest position.The torus can be made in Tensairity (tm) where stalks are also roads for wheels of generators,with 3 requirements:lightness,some rigidity (although completed by holding with tethers),enough good roads. Kites become a problem during production.It should be possible to rear (1/2 needed force in rapport to complete take-off) an like-autogiro rotor only both its lift (motor then generator mode),the shown floating mast,by using all means of control like tethers and cable for,why not,generating some oscillations allowing to catch the wind. I put again my corrected message: Phase of rotor rearing for production: generators work as motors then wind takes the place when the angle of incidence is enough large.The station is (always) held at sea level by the submarine cable while the opposite part of the rotor is free,but tilts towards at sea level (the animation does not show it) because of its weight but not being pushed strong in the water thanks to the support by the mast until take-off.So the rotor turns while the submarine cable is drawn making the station to prop up and the opposite part of rotor rearing a little, allowing sometimes a little angle opening a window for wind rushing,that allowing the angle to extend in the whole half part of rotor situated upwind,then the angle to increase.During the phase of rearing all tethers are also useful for the control and the balancing of the rotor,that while the cable of the mast is unwound.Lift and drag are used,more and more drag when the angle increases. PierreB
      > > http://wheelwind.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > > Message du 03/09/12 16:55
      > > > De : "Bob Stuart"
      > > > A : AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Copie à :
      > > > Objet : Re: [AWES] Airborne Seaborne Wind Energy System
      > > >
      > > > > I would worry about the high surface friction when the torus is floating, preventing lift-off speed. A pilot kite or floating mast might be necessary. I also wonder if the torus might be replaced by a toothed belt, with all support duties performed by kites. Bob Stuart
      > > > On 3-Sep-12, at 8:45 AM, Pierre BENHAIEM wrote:
      > > > "What forces are in play when the
      > > > toroid detaches from the water surface?" > Generators work as motors then wind takes the place when the angle of incidence is enough large.The station is (always) held at sea level by the submarine cable while the opposite half of rotor is free thanks to the small mast,but stays (only by the torus) at sea level (the animation does not show it) because of its weight but not being pushed in the water thanks to the support by the mast until take-off. > So the rotor turns while the submarine cable is drawn making the station to prop up and the opposite half of rotor rearing a little, allowing sometimes a little angle opening a window for wind rushing,that allowing the angle to extend in the whole half part of rotor situated upwind,then the angle to increase.All tethers are also useful for the control of take-off and the balancing of the rotor,that while the cable of the mast is unwound. > Note:the rotor is held both by air by means of tethers (lift and drag are used,more and more drag when the angle increases) and by sea by support of the floating station. > Indeed each offshore installation is a paradise for crustaceans and fishes. > PierreB, > http://wheelwind.com> http://flygenkite.com
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >> Message du 03/09/12 15:15
      > > > > De : "dbmurr@..."
      > > > > A : AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Copie à :
      > > > > Objet : [AWES] Re: Vast Meshes of Small Caged Rotors?
      > > > >
      > > > > > > I like it too.
      > > > > Consider an alternate configuration with the generator setup like a
      > > > > subway train, inside the torus. The crustaceans will love the equipment
      > > > > less this way...
      > > > > Also, think about the launch sequence. What forces are in play when the
      > > > > toroid detaches from the water surface? Maybe the natural pumping
      > > > > potential of air pushed along in a tube can help with this
      > > > > (oscillations). The efficiencies of a WIG (wing in ground effect) design
      > > > > approach may help with force requirements for full separation
      > > > > (unsticking).
      > > > > DaveB
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "roderickjosephread"
      > > > > wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Quality! I like it Pierre.
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Doug
      I d start by building a small model, on a pond, that can power a home.
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 4, 2012
        I'd start by building a small model, on a pond, that can power a home.
        **************************

        --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Pierre BENHAIEM <pierre.benhaiem@...> wrote:
        >
        > DaveB, "The questions I'm thinking about are, what is the best survival posture when in rest position? Does the generator location point move itself into an upwind position keeping the leading edge down? You are showing a slender torus section in the model. Have you thought about what pressures you will need in the Tensairity tubes for various wheel sizes? Maybe more spokes will be needed for the largest wheels." Good questions,as usual.I shall have more complete responses after making a prototype or at least a POC.For this scheme the control of tethers and cables is very important.The floating mast has also its submarine cable,tethers wich axial main tether are in their winches inside the mast at bottom position.A good management of mast cable will make vary its tensile allowing an amplitude of oscillations in rapport to the torus,that by analysis of waves at different places. In case of storm,yes,the station is put in upwind position.In case of low wind,the station (moving always vith the rotor) is put in downwind position to allow the rotor rearing and making production.Although forces on the rotor can be enough to move according all wind directions (at the anchor place there is a pivot),I prefer the floating station has its own propeller as supplement mean of control. As I prefer semi-rigid blades (maybe done by sections by extrusion),blades are also spokes.But the main holding is with suspentes. You can see that in the proposed scheme all is used:gravity,drag and lift,counter forces (tethers and station cable) to maintain the rotor,control of tethers (suspentes) and cables,mix of semi-rigid parts (blades for efficiency,and also torus) and soft rotor maintened by suspentes,variations of floating forces... The pressure into Tensairity torus is a point to clarify up.Usually for Tensairity the pressure is low.Although stalks as roads have some rigidity allowing a more efficient rolling conversion,the pressure has to be sufficient facilitating torus passing into the station without losses of efficiency.It is the raison why a rigid torus with small section can be prefered,the rigidity of the whole rotor being insured by suspentes. This year I shall try making a POC,if possible with sponsors. PierreBhttp://wheelwind.comhttp://flygenkite.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > > Message du 04/09/12 07:03
        > > De : "dbmurr@..."
        > > A : AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        > > Copie à :
        > > Objet : Re: [AWES] Airborne Seaborne Wind Energy System
        > >
        > > > Pierre,I think I understand how your take-0ff mode works now, and I believe it will fly well. I'm wondering what degrees of sea state would start to cause structural damage due to slapping, bouncing & whipping motions in either the rest or flight modes, creating cyclic fatigue? Varied sea states are possible, depending on the size of the apparatus, but I can see that testing may prove that small wheels survive well because they are strong, and large wheels survive longer due to size relationships with wave action. But, some middle scale wheel may quickly fail in a given body of water's typical wavelength & height conditions.The questions I'm thinking about are, what is the best survival posture when in rest position? Does the generator location point move itself into an upwind position keeping the leading edge down? You are showing a slender torus section in the model. Have you thought about what pressures you will need in the Tensairity tubes for various wheel sizes? Maybe more spokes will be needed for the largest wheels. Also, what type of connectors are you thinking of between a spoke/blade and the toroid?DaveB
        > >
        > > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Pierre BENHAIEM wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Due to the floating mast (one can see it on the animation) and the floating station (see the message below) only the opposite part of a huge torus tilts towards water level (the animation does not show it) but without strong force thanks to the floating mast.After it is a problem of measure for the height of mast regarding torus tilting during rest position.The torus can be made in Tensairity (tm) where stalks are also roads for wheels of generators,with 3 requirements:lightness,some rigidity (although completed by holding with tethers),enough good roads. Kites become a problem during production.It should be possible to rear (1/2 needed force in rapport to complete take-off) an like-autogiro rotor only both its lift (motor then generator mode),the shown floating mast,by using all means of control like tethers and cable for,why not,generating some oscillations allowing to catch the wind. I put again my corrected message: Phase of rotor rearing for production: generators work as motors then wind takes the place when the angle of incidence is enough large.The station is (always) held at sea level by the submarine cable while the opposite part of the rotor is free,but tilts towards at sea level (the animation does not show it) because of its weight but not being pushed strong in the water thanks to the support by the mast until take-off.So the rotor turns while the submarine cable is drawn making the station to prop up and the opposite part of rotor rearing a little, allowing sometimes a little angle opening a window for wind rushing,that allowing the angle to extend in the whole half part of rotor situated upwind,then the angle to increase.During the phase of rearing all tethers are also useful for the control and the balancing of the rotor,that while the cable of the mast is unwound.Lift and drag are used,more and more drag when the angle increases. PierreB
        > > > http://wheelwind.com
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Message du 03/09/12 16:55
        > > > > De : "Bob Stuart"
        > > > > A : AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Copie à :
        > > > > Objet : Re: [AWES] Airborne Seaborne Wind Energy System
        > > > >
        > > > > > I would worry about the high surface friction when the torus is floating, preventing lift-off speed. A pilot kite or floating mast might be necessary. I also wonder if the torus might be replaced by a toothed belt, with all support duties performed by kites. Bob Stuart
        > > > > On 3-Sep-12, at 8:45 AM, Pierre BENHAIEM wrote:
        > > > > "What forces are in play when the
        > > > > toroid detaches from the water surface?" > Generators work as motors then wind takes the place when the angle of incidence is enough large.The station is (always) held at sea level by the submarine cable while the opposite half of rotor is free thanks to the small mast,but stays (only by the torus) at sea level (the animation does not show it) because of its weight but not being pushed in the water thanks to the support by the mast until take-off. > So the rotor turns while the submarine cable is drawn making the station to prop up and the opposite half of rotor rearing a little, allowing sometimes a little angle opening a window for wind rushing,that allowing the angle to extend in the whole half part of rotor situated upwind,then the angle to increase.All tethers are also useful for the control of take-off and the balancing of the rotor,that while the cable of the mast is unwound. > Note:the rotor is held both by air by means of tethers (lift and drag are used,more and more drag when the angle increases) and by sea by support of the floating station. > Indeed each offshore installation is a paradise for crustaceans and fishes. > PierreB, > http://wheelwind.com> http://flygenkite.com
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >> Message du 03/09/12 15:15
        > > > > > De : "dbmurr@"
        > > > > > A : AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > > Copie à :
        > > > > > Objet : [AWES] Re: Vast Meshes of Small Caged Rotors?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I like it too.
        > > > > > Consider an alternate configuration with the generator setup like a
        > > > > > subway train, inside the torus. The crustaceans will love the equipment
        > > > > > less this way...
        > > > > > Also, think about the launch sequence. What forces are in play when the
        > > > > > toroid detaches from the water surface? Maybe the natural pumping
        > > > > > potential of air pushed along in a tube can help with this
        > > > > > (oscillations). The efficiencies of a WIG (wing in ground effect) design
        > > > > > approach may help with force requirements for full separation
        > > > > > (unsticking).
        > > > > > DaveB
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "roderickjosephread"
        > > > > > wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Quality! I like it Pierre.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Pierre BENHAIEM
        It is what I want to say by This year I shall try making a POC,if possible with sponsors .Maybe a ground version to verify the transmission. PierreB ... It is
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 4, 2012

          It is what I want to say by "This year I shall try making a POC,if possible with sponsors".Maybe a ground version to verify the transmission.

           

          PierreB




          > Message du 04/09/12 15:33
          > De : "Doug"
          > A : AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
          > Copie à :
          > Objet : [AWES] Re: Airborne Seaborne Wind Energy System
          >
          >  

          > I'd start by building a small model, on a pond, that can power a home.
          > **************************
          >
          > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Pierre BENHAIEM wrote:
          > >
          > > DaveB, "The questions I'm thinking about are, what is the best survival posture when in rest position? Does the generator location point move itself into an upwind position keeping the leading edge down? You are showing a slender torus section in the model. Have you thought about what pressures you will need in the Tensairity tubes for various wheel sizes? Maybe more spokes will be needed for the largest wheels." Good questions,as usual.I shall have more complete responses after making a prototype or at least a POC.For this scheme the control of tethers and cables is very important.The floating mast has also its submarine cable,tethers wich axial main tether are in their winches inside the mast at bottom position.A good management of mast cable will make vary its tensile allowing an amplitude of oscillations in rapport to the torus,that by analysis of waves at different places. In case of storm,yes,the station is put in upwind position.In case of low wind,the station (moving always vith the rotor) is put in downwind position to allow the rotor rearing and making production.Although forces on the rotor can be enough to move according all wind directions (at the anchor place there is a pivot),I prefer the floating station has its own propeller as supplement mean of control. As I prefer semi-rigid blades (maybe done by sections by extrusion),blades are also spokes.But the main holding is with suspentes. You can see that in the proposed scheme all is used:gravity,drag and lift,counter forces (tethers and station cable) to maintain the rotor,control of tethers (suspentes) and cables,mix of semi-rigid parts (blades for efficiency,and also torus) and soft rotor maintened by suspentes,variations of floating forces... The pressure into Tensairity torus is a point to clarify up.Usually for Tensairity the pressure is low.Although stalks as roads have some rigidity allowing a more efficient rolling conversion,the pressure has to be sufficient facilitating torus passing into the station without losses of efficiency.It is the raison why a rigid torus with small section can be prefered,the rigidity of the whole rotor being insured by suspentes. This year I shall try making a POC,if possible with sponsors. PierreBhttp://wheelwind.comhttp://flygenkite.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > > Message du 04/09/12 07:03
          > > > De : "dbmurr@..."
          > > > A : AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Copie à :
          > > > Objet : Re: [AWES] Airborne Seaborne Wind Energy System
          > > >
          > > > > Pierre,I think I understand how your take-0ff mode works now, and I believe it will fly well. I'm wondering what degrees of sea state would start to cause structural damage due to slapping, bouncing & whipping motions in either the rest or flight modes, creating cyclic fatigue? Varied sea states are possible, depending on the size of the apparatus, but I can see that testing may prove that small wheels survive well because they are strong, and large wheels survive longer due to size relationships with wave action. But, some middle scale wheel may quickly fail in a given body of water's typical wavelength & height conditions.The questions I'm thinking about are, what is the best survival posture when in rest position? Does the generator location point move itself into an upwind position keeping the leading edge down? You are showing a slender torus section in the model. Have you thought about what pressures you will need in the Tensairity tubes for various wheel sizes? Maybe more spokes will be needed for the largest wheels. Also, what type of connectors are you thinking of between a spoke/blade and the toroid?DaveB
          > > >
          > > > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Pierre BENHAIEM wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Due to the floating mast (one can see it on the animation) and the floating station (see the message below) only the opposite part of a huge torus tilts towards water level (the animation does not show it) but without strong force thanks to the floating mast.After it is a problem of measure for the height of mast regarding torus tilting during rest position.The torus can be made in Tensairity (tm) where stalks are also roads for wheels of generators,with 3 requirements:lightness,some rigidity (although completed by holding with tethers),enough good roads. Kites become a problem during production.It should be possible to rear (1/2 needed force in rapport to complete take-off) an like-autogiro rotor only both its lift (motor then generator mode),the shown floating mast,by using all means of control like tethers and cable for,why not,generating some oscillations allowing to catch the wind. I put again my corrected message: Phase of rotor rearing for production: generators work as motors then wind takes the place when the angle of incidence is enough large.The station is (always) held at sea level by the submarine cable while the opposite part of the rotor is free,but tilts towards at sea level (the animation does not show it) because of its weight but not being pushed strong in the water thanks to the support by the mast until take-off.So the rotor turns while the submarine cable is drawn making the station to prop up and the opposite part of rotor rearing a little, allowing sometimes a little angle opening a window for wind rushing,that allowing the angle to extend in the whole half part of rotor situated upwind,then the angle to increase.During the phase of rearing all tethers are also useful for the control and the balancing of the rotor,that while the cable of the mast is unwound.Lift and drag are used,more and more drag when the angle increases. PierreB
          > > > > http://wheelwind.com
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > > Message du 03/09/12 16:55
          > > > > > De : "Bob Stuart"
          > > > > > A : AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > > Copie à :
          > > > > > Objet : Re: [AWES] Airborne Seaborne Wind Energy System
          > > > > >
          > > > > > > I would worry about the high surface friction when the torus is floating, preventing lift-off speed. A pilot kite or floating mast might be necessary. I also wonder if the torus might be replaced by a toothed belt, with all support duties performed by kites. Bob Stuart
          > > > > > On 3-Sep-12, at 8:45 AM, Pierre BENHAIEM wrote:
          > > > > > "What forces are in play when the
          > > > > > toroid detaches from the water surface?" > Generators work as motors then wind takes the place when the angle of incidence is enough large.The station is (always) held at sea level by the submarine cable while the opposite half of rotor is free thanks to the small mast,but stays (only by the torus) at sea level (the animation does not show it) because of its weight but not being pushed in the water thanks to the support by the mast until take-off. > So the rotor turns while the submarine cable is drawn making the station to prop up and the opposite half of rotor rearing a little, allowing sometimes a little angle opening a window for wind rushing,that allowing the angle to extend in the whole half part of rotor situated upwind,then the angle to increase.All tethers are also useful for the control of take-off and the balancing of the rotor,that while the cable of the mast is unwound. > Note:the rotor is held both by air by means of tethers (lift and drag are used,more and more drag when the angle increases) and by sea by support of the floating station. > Indeed each offshore installation is a paradise for crustaceans and fishes. > PierreB, > http://wheelwind.com> http://flygenkite.com
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >> Message du 03/09/12 15:15
          > > > > > > De : "dbmurr@"
          > > > > > > A : AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > > > Copie à :
          > > > > > > Objet : [AWES] Re: Vast Meshes of Small Caged Rotors?
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > I like it too.
          > > > > > > Consider an alternate configuration with the generator setup like a
          > > > > > > subway train, inside the torus. The crustaceans will love the equipment
          > > > > > > less this way...
          > > > > > > Also, think about the launch sequence. What forces are in play when the
          > > > > > > toroid detaches from the water surface? Maybe the natural pumping
          > > > > > > potential of air pushed along in a tube can help with this
          > > > > > > (oscillations). The efficiencies of a WIG (wing in ground effect) design
          > > > > > > approach may help with force requirements for full separation
          > > > > > > (unsticking).
          > > > > > > DaveB
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "roderickjosephread"
          > > > > > > wrote:
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Quality! I like it Pierre.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >

        • Doug
          GerbilTech: the future of energy.
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 4, 2012
            GerbilTech: the future of energy.
            :)

            --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "dbmurr@..." <dbmurr@...> wrote:
            >
            > I like it too.
            > Consider an alternate configuration with the generator setup like a
            > subway train, inside the torus. The crustaceans will love the equipment
            > less this way...
            > Also, think about the launch sequence. What forces are in play when the
            > toroid detaches from the water surface? Maybe the natural pumping
            > potential of air pushed along in a tube can help with this
            > (oscillations). The efficiencies of a WIG (wing in ground effect) design
            > approach may help with force requirements for full separation
            > (unsticking).
            > DaveB
            >
            > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "roderickjosephread"
            > <rod.read@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Quality! I like it Pierre.
            > >
            >
          • Pierre BENHAIEM
            CerberusTech saying yes-yes or no-no:the past of energy. PierreB ... CerberusTech saying yes-yes or no-no:the past of energy. PierreB
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 4, 2012
              CerberusTech saying yes-yes or no-no:the past of energy.

              PierreB




              > Message du 04/09/12 17:35
              > De : "Doug"
              > A : AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
              > Copie à :
              > Objet : [AWES] Re: Vast Meshes of Small Caged Gerbils?
              >
              >  

              > GerbilTech: the future of energy.
              > :)
              >
              > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "dbmurr@..." wrote:
              > >
              > > I like it too.
              > > Consider an alternate configuration with the generator setup like a
              > > subway train, inside the torus. The crustaceans will love the equipment
              > > less this way...
              > > Also, think about the launch sequence. What forces are in play when the
              > > toroid detaches from the water surface? Maybe the natural pumping
              > > potential of air pushed along in a tube can help with this
              > > (oscillations). The efficiencies of a WIG (wing in ground effect) design
              > > approach may help with force requirements for full separation
              > > (unsticking).
              > > DaveB
              > >
              > > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "roderickjosephread"
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Quality! I like it Pierre.
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >

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