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Cheap grid scale liquid metal batteries

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  • roderickjosephread
    http://www.ted.com/talks/donald_sadoway_the_missing_link_to_renewable_en ergy.html
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 11 3:45 AM
    • Joe Faust
      * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Sadoway * http://lmbcorporation.com/ *
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 11 7:01 AM
      • Robert Copcutt
        Sadoway has been a prominent figure in the global electrochemistry community for some time. When my last boss s FFC invention was making world news over 10
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 12 3:27 PM
          Sadoway has been a prominent figure in the global electrochemistry
          community for some time. When my last boss's FFC invention was making
          world news over 10 years ago he was one of many who jumped on the band
          wagon for a while.

          He gives a very convincing lecture but when you look at the details it
          all falls apart. I too have been studying the period table for decades,
          but my conclusions are very different. He has obviously had a lot of
          trouble finding a suitable pair of metals. Let us look at the earth
          abundance of the relevant metals.

          Iron - 50 000 ppm
          Magnesium - 20 900 ppm
          Nickel - 80 ppm
          Antimony - 1 ppm


          How he can expect an Antimony based battery to compete with the Edison
          battery (Nickel - iron) is a mystery to me.

          The Mg is supposed to form a solution in the Sb. How much Mg can
          dissolve in the Sb before it starts to float on the salt? How does he
          mix the Sb so that the Mg does not concentrate on the top? These are
          issues that could kill the project yet he ignores them.

          He also tries to paint high temperatures as an advantage. He glosses
          over the fact that molten salts are very corrosive. The Edison battery
          has been demonstrated to last over 70 years. I cannot foresee his
          batteries lasting that long. I have done lots of molten salt work and
          corrosion usually destroys most apparatus within a year of careful
          part-time use. He also fails to mention what salt he is using. His
          patent covers every possibility (there are not that many) so the logical
          conclusion is that the salt choice is giving him trouble.

          One of my current projects is on cost reduction of the Edison battery.
          His battery is unlikely to beat an existing battery yet he has attracted
          funding of over $20M. Maybe I should learn to blow my own trumpet as
          loudly as Sadoway does. Horrors!

          Robert.



          On Mon, 2012-06-11 at 10:45 +0000, roderickjosephread wrote:
          >
          > http://www.ted.com/talks/donald_sadoway_the_missing_link_to_renewable_energy.html
          >
          >
        • harry valentine
          NGK s grid scale batteries use molten sodium-sulphur technology. A few installations caught fire. Sadoway is connected to MIT . . . . that alone will attract
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 12 7:17 PM
            NGK's grid scale batteries use molten sodium-sulphur technology. A few installations caught fire.

            Sadoway is connected to MIT .  . .  . that alone will attract venture capital.

            Harry


            To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
            From: r@...
            Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:27:46 +0100
            Subject: Re: [AWES] Cheap grid scale liquid metal batteries

             
            Sadoway has been a prominent figure in the global electrochemistry
            community for some time. When my last boss's FFC invention was making
            world news over 10 years ago he was one of many who jumped on the band
            wagon for a while.

            He gives a very convincing lecture but when you look at the details it
            all falls apart. I too have been studying the period table for decades,
            but my conclusions are very different. He has obviously had a lot of
            trouble finding a suitable pair of metals. Let us look at the earth
            abundance of the relevant metals.

            Iron - 50 000 ppm
            Magnesium - 20 900 ppm
            Nickel - 80 ppm
            Antimony - 1 ppm

            How he can expect an Antimony based battery to compete with the Edison
            battery (Nickel - iron) is a mystery to me.

            The Mg is supposed to form a solution in the Sb. How much Mg can
            dissolve in the Sb before it starts to float on the salt? How does he
            mix the Sb so that the Mg does not concentrate on the top? These are
            issues that could kill the project yet he ignores them.

            He also tries to paint high temperatures as an advantage. He glosses
            over the fact that molten salts are very corrosive. The Edison battery
            has been demonstrated to last over 70 years. I cannot foresee his
            batteries lasting that long. I have done lots of molten salt work and
            corrosion usually destroys most apparatus within a year of careful
            part-time use. He also fails to mention what salt he is using. His
            patent covers every possibility (there are not that many) so the logical
            conclusion is that the salt choice is giving him trouble.

            One of my current projects is on cost reduction of the Edison battery.
            His battery is unlikely to beat an existing battery yet he has attracted
            funding of over $20M. Maybe I should learn to blow my own trumpet as
            loudly as Sadoway does. Horrors!

            Robert.

            On Mon, 2012-06-11 at 10:45 +0000, roderickjosephread wrote:
            >
            > http://www.ted.com/talks/donald_sadoway_the_missing_link_to_renewable_energy.html
            >
            >


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