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Corrections //Re: Doug's Off-Topic Postings

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  • Doug
    Dave S. You seem suddenly dismissive of reeling in-out systems. Seems to me it is not that long ago that you were touting their virtues. Didn t you have it
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 7, 2012
      Dave S.
      You seem suddenly dismissive of reeling in-out systems. Seems to me it is not that long ago that you were touting their virtues. Didn't you have it down to a short oscillating cycle a few weeks ago? Wasn't that "the new and final answer to AWE"? Maybe my pointing out the detractive aspects of reeling systems, and the historical inadvisability of downwind/upwind cycle, drag-based, high-solidity systems could have had some relevance. Seems to me a lot of people still take them seriously though.

      One thing we have to keep in mind: At any point, you know all the answers about any aspect of this stuff AND you are the final authority on AWE. I move that we give you a title like Michael Jackson being the self-titled "King of Pop" or Howard Stern, the self-titled "King of All Media", you can be the self-titled "King of AWE", or perhaps "The TACO King".

      Step aside. Make way for the King!
      Doug S.
      Next question: Is the King really wearing any clothes?

      --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, dave santos <santos137@...> wrote:
      >
      > Doug,
      > �
      > Its OK for you to opine as you wish, just change the subject line when your repetitive complaining�makes no reference to original subject. If only you were more accurate and creative�in your critiques, they would have real value.
      > �
      > Note that TACO advocates multiple anchors as a safety method, so�you are quite confused�to claim i am "working to have rules drafted against�(my) own designs." Note that most of my working prototypes are single-anchor-point; KiteLab Group does not represent just one configuration. You also mistakenly think that reel-systems are somehow�relevant to my work; no, all my designs are crosswind, with short recovery phase embedded�within�each crosswind cycle. Reel systems�are mainly an early and�probably obsolete�benchmark AWES concept�that others tried. You were never the one able to provide the formal critique of them.
      > �
      > The key point about your pessimism is that it is directed at all other developers, teams and schemes, except yourself. Its�not�"vigilant"�on your part to�overlook�that the least promising of all AWES schemes is the Super Turbine (R), which you describe as a thousand foot tall composite drive-shaft (at what flight angle?). It is so weakly regarded by the domain�engineers, it does not even make the radar of virtually every current survey of AWES contenders.�Of all wind experts we can name, you�are the lonely optimist of this short-only architecture, and even imagine it to be�"flight", rather than just�a floppy�pole,�and thus seem to best deserve your own�petard of "dedicated crackpot" in AWE.
      > �
      > Are you�not the�truest�"newbie" on this energy-aviation forum, as you never�express�any detailed�knowledge or experience in aviation or aerospace? Other contributors on�this list even have far more impressive HAWT experience (like Chris Carlin). That is why�your "nonsense" tirade seems to best characterize your approach to AWE community, rather than fit those you misunderstand.�A better�bet for you�is to master aviation�and forget your�troubled�"hunger for nonsense",
      > �
      > Study hard and good luck!
      > �
      > daveS����
      >
    • dave santos
      Doug,   You seem to just make quotes up- Instead of my ever claiming the new and final answer to AWE exists, my general position has been that there is
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 7, 2012
        Doug,
         
        You seem to just make quotes up- Instead of my ever claiming "the new and final answer to AWE" exists, my general position has been that "there is much still to be discovered" (asserted to Makani). Surely the Kitelab track-record of making all kinds of different AWES contrasts with the many "one-trick-pony" contenders. There are a half dozen new AWES variants being tested lately, its a long evolutionary journey based on relentless test-modify-test cycles
         
        Allow me to repeat my take on reel systems: 1) They have been an important early "benchmark method". 2) They tend to suffer from an overly long recovery cycle, use too much airspace, wear on the line a lot, etc. 3) Short stroke reeling with chafing gear can mitigate these flaws. 4) Lever/crank based systems with embedded recovery phase at the top of the crosswind sweep pattern wholly avoid the need to reel.
         
        Don't worry so much about trying to come up with dismissive names for folks, just focus on technical issues and you will be doing great,
         
        daveS
         
         
            
      • Bob Stuart
        Could we have a poll of the list members, to see if any member regards any other, or themselves, as infallible? I vote none. Dave S seems to be voting for
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 7, 2012
          Could we have a poll of the list members, to see if any member regards any other, or themselves, as infallible?  

          I vote "none."  Dave S seems to be voting for himself, and treating us like children.

          Bob Stuart
          Sent from The Country Formerly Known as Nice.

          On 7-Jan-12, at 12:27 PM, dave santos wrote:


          Doug,
           
          You seem to just make quotes up- Instead of my ever claiming "the new and final answer to AWE" exists, my general position has been that "there is much still to be discovered" (asserted to Makani). Surely the Kitelab track-record of making all kinds of different AWES contrasts with the many "one-trick-pony" contenders. There are a half dozen new AWES variants being tested lately, its a long evolutionary journey based on relentless test-modify-test cycles
           
          Allow me to repeat my take on reel systems: 1) They have been an important early "benchmark method". 2) They tend to suffer from an overly long recovery cycle, use too much airspace, wear on the line a lot, etc. 3) Short stroke reeling with chafing gear can mitigate these flaws. 4) Lever/crank based systems with embedded recovery phase at the top of the crosswind sweep pattern wholly avoid the need to reel.
           
          Don't worry so much about trying to come up with dismissive names for folks, just focus on technical issues and you will be doing great,
           
          daveS
           
           
              


        • Joe Faust
          That was a tough hit, it seems to me. I ve not ever seen text that claims anyone or himself or herself as infallible in AWE. The one just hit especially
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 7, 2012
            That was a tough hit, it seems to me. I've not ever seen text that
            claims anyone or himself or herself as infallible in AWE. The one just
            hit especially seems ever to move that more can and will be uncovered;
            during the evolution a stream of statement seem to be part of the
            progressive stream where things are pressed back some while others are
            opined as moving forward. All our play seems to be invited; each of us
            seems to play with some idiosyncratic style, hopefully not to be taken
            as emphatically treating others as though there were some diminutive
            status. My slant is with a broad wish that we might stay open-minded
            as children and stand ready to have awe for advancing AWE. Ones with a
            streaming of larger quantities of enthusiastic sharing will by such be
            more vulnerable to attack---more windows to view into the ways, means,
            and heart. Those not yet posting or posting little have not opened
            themselves as much, it seems. Daring to evolve opinions during this
            generative and creative stage of AWE---in an open-stream---manner seems
            to me to be a gift to be treasured. Staying with attack on technical
            questions and keeping personal vulnerabilities aside might forward the
            AWE RAD game best.
          • dave santos
            Bob, You wrote- Could we have a poll of the list members, to see if any member regards any other, or themselves, as infallible?  I vote none. Dave S seems
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 7, 2012
              Bob, You wrote-
              "Could we have a poll of the list members, to see if any member regards any other, or themselves, as infallible?  I vote "none." Dave S seems to be voting for himself, and treating us like children."
               
              I vote for "none" too, so your poll corrects a misconception.
               
              If anyone votes themselves "infallible", now there's a childish mistake. I am sorry if my offerings ever seem like "treating (everyone else) like children", that is not the intent. Feel free to treat me as a child in return; i feel like a child,  ;*)
               
              If only we were totally focused on RAD, soap opera would hardly be allowed to distract us,
               
              daveS

               
                  
            • Bob Stuart
              Thanks, DaveS; maybe we can just run this poll the next time we are contemplating invoking moderation. That has been a time-consuming failure, impossible to
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 7, 2012
                Thanks, DaveS; maybe we can just run this poll the next time we are contemplating invoking moderation.  That has been a time-consuming failure, impossible to do fairly.  

                Bob Stuart
                Sent from The Country Formerly Known as Nice.

                On 7-Jan-12, at 4:26 PM, dave santos wrote:


                Bob, You wrote-
                "Could we have a poll of the list members, to see if any member regards any other, or themselves, as infallible?  I vote "none." Dave S seems to be voting for himself, and treating us like children."
                 
                I vote for "none" too, so your poll corrects a misconception.
                 
                If anyone votes themselves "infallible", now there's a childish mistake. I am sorry if my offerings ever seem like "treating (everyone else) like children", that is not the intent. Feel free to treat me as a child in return; i feel like a child,  ;*)
                 
                If only we were totally focused on RAD, soap opera would hardly be allowed to distract us,
                 
                daveS

                 
                    


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