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SeaGlider Progress

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  • dave santos
    From AYRS list (no name provided), progress by the French SeaGlider (HAPA) team-   ==========included message=============   Found this link on a kitesurf
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 23, 2011
      From AYRS list (no name provided), progress by the French SeaGlider (HAPA) team-
       
      ==========included message=============
       
      Found this link on a kitesurf site:
      WWW.seaglider.fr
    • Joe Faust
      Great scalable method! Fly across the oceans above the water while the paravane (water kite) takes the beating of the waves. Cabins at mid tether. Multiple
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 23, 2011
        Great scalable method!
        Fly across the oceans above the water while the paravane (water kite)
        takes the beating of the waves. Cabins at mid tether. Multiple kites
        at various strata controlled to give the balance and direction wanted.
        This is a double kite system: air kite and water kite. Place cabin
        in some versions in wings. Other systems will have manned or cargo
        cabins at mid-tether for touchdown to water when wanted or needed. New
        aviation. The K3 is evolving, the AWE era ... Congrats to Seaglider
        team!

        On 8/23/11, dave santos <santos137@...> wrote:
        > From AYRS list (no name provided), progress by the French SeaGlider (HAPA)
        > team-
        >
        > ==========included message=============
        >
        > Found this link on a kitesurf site:
        > WWW.seaglider.fr
        >
      • Pierre BENHAIEM
        Stéphane Rousson is one among the team:some realizations are blimp with pedals,blimp carrying persons a little over the sea,a tether linking the blimp to a
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 23, 2011
          Stéphane Rousson is one among the team:some realizations are blimp with pedals,blimp carrying persons a little over the sea,a tether linking the blimp to a sort of drift in the water (the drift is called "chien de mer" and is an invention from Didier Costes).

          PierreB
          http://flygenkite.com




          > Message du 23/08/11 19:01
          > De : "dave santos"
          > A : airbornewindenergy@yahoogroups.com
          > Copie à :
          > Objet : [AWECS] SeaGlider Progress
          >
          >  

          >

          From AYRS list (no name provided), progress by the French SeaGlider (HAPA) team-

          ==========included message=============

          Found this link on a kitesurf site:
          > WWW.seaglider.fr
          >


        • Darin Selby
          Is there possibly a picture showing the cabins at mid tether? To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com From: joefaust333@gmail.com Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 23, 2011
            Is there possibly a picture showing the cabins at mid tether?  


            To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
            From: joefaust333@...
            Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 10:21:18 -0700
            Subject: Re: [AWECS] SeaGlider Progress

             
            Great scalable method!
            Fly across the oceans above the water while the paravane (water kite)
            takes the beating of the waves. Cabins at mid tether. Multiple kites
            at various strata controlled to give the balance and direction wanted.
            This is a double kite system: air kite and water kite. Place cabin
            in some versions in wings. Other systems will have manned or cargo
            cabins at mid-tether for touchdown to water when wanted or needed. New
            aviation. The K3 is evolving, the AWE era ... Congrats to Seaglider
            team!

            On 8/23/11, dave santos <santos137@...> wrote:
            > From AYRS list (no name provided), progress by the French SeaGlider (HAPA)
            > team-
            >
            > ==========included message=============
            >
            > Found this link on a kitesurf site:
            > WWW.seaglider.fr
            >

          • Joe Faust
            ... ++++++++++++ Darin, 1. Very early patent: _______ (someplace in www.kitepatents.com ?______. ) The patent was foundational for kite shipping. The
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 23, 2011
              --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Darin Selby <darin_selby@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Is there possibly a picture showing the cabins at mid tether?
              >
              +++++++++++++
              --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Darin Selby <darin_selby@...> wrote:> Is there possibly a picture showing the cabins at mid tether?
              ++++++++++++
              Darin,
              1. Very early patent: _______ (someplace in www.kitepatents.com ?______. ) The patent was foundational for kite shipping. The claims and drawings show men in mid-tether as the tug kites operate to pull a water-hull (which stands for the paravane).

              2. Stephane's pilot place is actually at mid-tether, as tethering is above the pilot place and tether is below pilot place while the water kite (paravane) is kiting in the water.

              3. Europe contemporary university group has drawings on line: ________ for their proposal for the mid-tether double-media double-kite system. We have it someplace in group and in files at EnergyKiteSystems.

              4. See SkySails water-hull as the paravane; see the control unit aloft as cabin of things; see top wing as the driving air kite.

              5. See kite messengers in dynamic paravane resisted bi-media-bi-kite system as mid-tether cabin of things.

              In this thread, the images mentioned will be posted by me or someone soon for handiness and continuity.
            • Joe Faust
              Toward point 1. See all drawings in Aerial Apparatus David Thayer Patent number : US 417755
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 23, 2011

                Toward point "1."  See all drawings in

                Aerial Apparatus
                David Thayer Patent number : US 417755     Filing date : Jul 22, 1889  

                ======================================================

                > > Is there possibly a picture showing the cabins at mid tether?
                > >
                > +++++++++++++
                > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Darin Selby darin_selby@ wrote:> Is there possibly a picture showing the cabins at mid tether?
                > ++++++++++++
                > Darin,
                > 1. Very early patent: _______ (someplace in www.kitepatents.com ?______. ) The patent was foundational for kite shipping. The claims and drawings show men in mid-tether as the tug kites operate to pull a water-hull (which stands for the paravane).

              • Doug
                I ve been dreaming about this general idea since I was a kid too... Glad somebody is finally taking it on.
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 24, 2011
                  I've been dreaming about this general idea since I was a kid too...
                  Glad somebody is finally taking it on.
                  :)
                • Pierre Benhaiem
                  Video of Seaglider PierreB ... (HAPA) team-
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 24, 2011

                    Video of Seaglider

                    PierreB

                    --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, dave santos <santos137@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From AYRS list (no name provided), progress by the French SeaGlider (HAPA) team-
                    >  
                    > ==========included message=============
                    >  
                    > Found this link on a kitesurf site:
                    > WWW.seaglider.fr
                    >

                  • Dave Lang
                    Curious observation.....quoting from the Beaufort Scale... Moderate Breeze - Beaufort 4 Wind speed is 13-to-18 mph (11-to-16 kts); wave height is 3.5 to 5 ft.
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 24, 2011
                      [AWECS] Re: SeaGlider Progress
                      Curious observation.....quoting from the Beaufort Scale...

                      "Moderate Breeze - Beaufort 4
                      Wind speed is 13-to-18 mph (11-to-16 kts); wave height is 3.5 to 5 ft. Small waves, becoming larger; fairly frequent whitecaps"

                      Maybe the wind speed stated in the video was in error.

                      DaveL



                      At 5:23 PM +0000 8/24/11, Pierre Benhaiem wrote:
                       
                      Video of Seaglider
                      PierreB
                      --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, dave santos <santos137@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From AYRS list (no name provided), progress by the French SeaGlider (HAPA) team-
                      >  
                      > ==========included message=============
                      >  
                      > Found this link on a kitesurf site:
                      > WWW.seaglider.fr
                      >

                    • dave santos
                      DaveL   The Beaufort Scale is standardized to a 10m measurement height. The kite in this rig flies at about 30m high, so with wind gradient* factored in,
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 24, 2011
                        DaveL
                         
                        The Beaufort Scale is standardized to a 10m measurement height. The kite in this rig flies at about 30m high, so with wind gradient* factored in, surface conditions seem consistent. The small waves further suggest a limited wind fetch,
                         
                        daveS
                         
                         
                        *roughly, for every fivefold increase in height, a doubling of wind velocity


                         
                      • Joe Faust
                        The art from the university students in Europe is yet to be brought forward. MEANWHILE: http://greenmillennium.eu/images/blimpfoils.jpg
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 24, 2011
                          The art from the university students in Europe is yet to be brought forward.

                          MEANWHILE:
                          http://greenmillennium.eu/images/blimpfoils.jpg
                        • Joe Faust
                          And more on the page: http://greenmillennium.eu/TransportationwithoutOil.aspx
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 24, 2011
                            And more on the page:
                            http://greenmillennium.eu/TransportationwithoutOil.aspx

                            On 8/24/11, Joe Faust <Editor@...> wrote:
                            > The art from the university students in Europe is yet to be brought
                            > forward.
                            >
                            > MEANWHILE:
                            > http://greenmillennium.eu/images/blimpfoils.jpg
                            >
                          • Dave Lang
                            DaveS, That could make sense if the folks doing the video were measuring wind at 30 m (they made no allusion to measurement altitude, which may have been your
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 24, 2011
                              Re: [AWECS] Re: SeaGlider Progress
                              DaveS,

                              That could make sense if the folks doing the video were measuring wind at 30 m (they made no allusion to measurement altitude, which may have been your personal deduction in this case).  I noticed that there looked to be a pretty good fetch to me though.

                              Another explanation could be that, since wave building is a transient thing occurring over time, this SeaGlider excursion could have been shot BEFORE waves had time to build to the equilibrium Beaufort wind/wave correlation.

                              Thanks for the info.

                              DaveL


                              At 3:15 PM -0700 8/24/11, dave santos wrote:
                               
                              DaveL
                               
                              The Beaufort Scale is standardized to a 10m measurement height. The kite in this rig flies at about 30m high, so with wind gradient* factored in, surface conditions seem consistent. The small waves further suggest a limited wind fetch,
                               
                              daveS
                               
                               
                              *roughly, for every fivefold increase in height, a doubling of wind velocity


                               

                            • Pierre BENHAIEM
                              Some years ago Didier Costes made this concept with a blimp with helium carrying an user.The blimp was linked to the hydrofoil;its name is chien de mer (dog
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 24, 2011
                                Some years ago Didier Costes made this concept with a blimp with helium carrying an user.The blimp was linked to the hydrofoil;its name is "chien de mer" (dog of the sea).I (and probably other players) suggested to replace the blimp by a kite or paraglider.Arcachon' bay is protected,so waves are small.

                                PierreB




                                > Message du 25/08/11 00:15
                                > De : "dave santos"
                                > A : AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
                                > Copie à :
                                > Objet : Re: [AWECS] Re: SeaGlider Progress
                                >
                                >  

                                >

                                DaveL

                                The Beaufort Scale is standardized to a 10m measurement height. The kite in this rig flies at about 30m high, so with wind gradient* factored in, surface conditions seem consistent. The small waves further suggest a limited wind fetch,

                                daveS

                                *roughly, for every fivefold increase in height, a doubling of wind velocity


                                >
                                >  


                              • Andrew K
                                ... Here s a book speculating on some interesting high performance sail options that looks relevant: Sailloons and fliptackers: the limits to high-speed
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 25, 2011
                                  >> Found this link on a kitesurf site:
                                  >> WWW.seaglider.fr

                                  Here's a book speculating on some interesting high performance sail
                                  options that looks relevant:
                                  "Sailloons and fliptackers: the limits to high-speed sailing" By Bernard Smith
                                  <http://www.amazon.com/Sailloons-Fliptackers-High-Speed-Sailing-Library/dp/sitb-next/0930403657>


                                  > The art from the university students in Europe is yet to be brought forward.
                                  >
                                  > MEANWHILE:
                                  > http://greenmillennium.eu/images/blimpfoils.jpg

                                  Cute idea but I'm not sure they've really thought about how much a 747
                                  weighs or how much helium it takes to lift a kilogram.

                                  Andrew King
                                  King Technical Services
                                • Joe Faust
                                  Darin, and All, The gem for mid-tether cabin is recovered via Hydro-Kite from the Tu Delft flow: * Hydro Kite Hydro Kite – A wind-powered vehicle to
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Aug 25, 2011
                                  • Joe Faust
                                    Related: Paravane and Aile d eau - Protei https://sites.google.com/a/opensailing.net/protei/news/paravaneandailede au
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Aug 25, 2011
                                    • Joe Faust
                                      Noud Werter http://www.linkedin.com/in/noudwerter Delft University of Technology BSc, Aerospace Engineering 2006 –
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Aug 25, 2011

                                        Noud Werter

                                        http://www.linkedin.com/in/noudwerter


                                        Delft University of Technology
                                        BSc, Aerospace Engineering
                                        2006 – 2009

                                        Final Project: Hydrokite
                                        The goal of this assignment was to design, in a group of 10 students, a high speed vehicle over water which is propelled by a kite. I was the Head of Design of the group and next to that I was responsible for the structural design of the cabin.

                                        ==============

                                      • christopher carlin
                                        Interesting concept but what happens when the wind dies? I ve been in the Atlantic in flat calms many times. Also I ve been in the Atlantic in 70 foot seas and
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Aug 28, 2011
                                          Interesting concept but what happens when the wind dies? I've been in the Atlantic in flat calms many times. Also I've been in the Atlantic in 70 foot seas and 80 knot winds. How do we make this concept work in both. Also am very interested in estimated upwind performance. Down wind and off the wind these things are great but I'm not sure how high they'll point. I'm not saying it isn't a good idea just wondering how to deal with some real world problems.

                                          Chris 
                                          On Aug 25, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Joe Faust wrote:

                                           

                                        • Joe Faust
                                          Hello Joe. we did a new flight a week ago you can see it on www.seaglider.fr on page movie 3 have fun stephane Le 23 août 2011 à
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Sep 18, 2011

                                            Hello Joe.
                                            we did a new flight a week ago
                                            you can see it on www.seaglider.fr on page movie 3
                                            have fun
                                            stephane

                                            Le 23 août 2011 à 19:31, Joe Faust a écrit :
                                            - Show quoted text -

                                            Stephane,
                                            You are most welcome to tell all stories about your air adventures.
                                            You are invited to be joined in forum AirborneWindEnergy
                                            in Yahoo Groups. We are featuring your adventures, but need your
                                            original inputs.
                                            http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AirborneWindEnergy/

                                            Lift,
                                            Joe Faust
                                            aka JoeF

                                            Stephane Rousson
                                            Tel : 00 33 (0)6 03 83 82 76
                                            http://www.rousson.org
                                            http://www.scubster.org
                                            http://www.seaglider.fr
                                          • Joe Faust
                                            Related: Geophysical Prospecting, 2001, 49, 735-745. J. H. Hagedoorn - inventing the Hapa: A review of a geophysicist s other work and how it inspired others
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jan 13, 2012
                                              Related: 

                                              Geophysical Prospecting, 2001, 49, 735-745. 
                                              J. H. Hagedoorn - inventing the Hapa: A review of a geophysicist's "other" work and how it inspired others

                                              Theodor Schmidt, 
                                              Switzerland. 
                                              Received July 2001, revision accepted July 2001

                                              ABSTRACT
                                              This paper describes J.G. Hagedoorn's work on `ultimate sailing' - the combination of a manned kite and a water kite called a Hapa, constituting a minimal sailingsystem - and the way others have taken up his challenge to sail while suspended froma kite. Hagedoorn's goal has not been entirely achieved, but 'near' and partial solutions have been reached. Kite-Hapa-sailing continues to pose a 'Holy Grail' type challenge to many kite-sailors.

                                              See article and more on what are exploration in two wings coupled while using horizontal shears of fluids:

                                            • Joe Faust
                                              REFERENCES at the above-in-this-thread article found here. REFERENCES Ashford P. 1990.
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jan 13, 2012

                                                REFERENCES at the above-in-this-thread  article found here.
                                                 
                                                REFERENCES
                                                Ashford P. 1990. Stabilising paravane experiments.Low Drag Craft .AYRS Publication No. 107.

                                                Ashford P. 1994. Seadogs for monohulls. Ultimate Sailing: The Hapa Revisited . AYRS Publication No. 114.

                                                Beringer W. 1996. Parawings . Verlag fu Èr Technik und Handwerk.

                                                Biegler R. 2001. Taking a `seadog' for a walk. AYRS Catalyst
                                                1
                                                , 24±25.Bradfield W.S. 1979. High speed sailing vehicles. Speed Sailing . AYRSPublication No. 93.

                                                Bruce E. and Morss H. 1965/1970/1976. Opinions about Hydrofoils .AYRS Publications Nos 51, 74 and 82.

                                                Burgess C.P. 1939/1995. Sailing airships at sea. Reprinted in UltimateSailing III. AYRS Publication No. 118.

                                                Costes D. 1994/1996. Windsailing for airships and gliders: using the`Seadog'. Ultimate Sailing IV. AYRS Publication No. 122.

                                                Costes D. 1995. A description of some seadog inventions. UltimateSailing III . AYRS Publication No. 118.

                                                Glencross R. 1993. Sailing craft Hagedoorn. AYRS Projects . AYRSPublication No. 112.

                                                Glencross R. 1996. Kites and Hapas at Speedweek 1996. UltimateSailing IV. AYRS Publication No. 112.

                                                Hagedoorn J.G. 1971/1994. Ultimate Sailing: Introducing theHapa/Ultimate Sailing: The Hapa Revisited. AYRS PublicationNo. 114.

                                                Hagedoorn J.G. 1975. Ultimate sailing. Scientific American , March (page numbers unavailable).

                                                Hanschke T. 1976. Segeln auf Gletschern. Alpinismus 12.

                                                Kitson T. 1994. The experimental craft at Weymouth 1992±4. Speed Sailing and Speed Weeks 1992±4. AYRS Publication No. 115.

                                                Morwood J. 1961. An inflatable kite. Aerodynamics I . AYRS Publication No. 37.

                                                Pocock G. 1827/1851. The Aeropleustic Art. Facsimile reprint, 1 Jan1969, by Edward L. Stearn, San Francisco, CA.

                                                Quinton B. 2001. Winds of change: a rally for innovative watercraft. AYRS Catalyst 1, 5.

                                                Roeseler C. 1997. A field study of kite-powered hydrofoil theory. Transport Sailcraft. AYRS Publication No. 124.

                                                Roeseler W. and Funston N. 1979. The Sea Nymph and the ancient Egyptian Yacht. The Ancient Interface Sailing Symposium1979 , Pomona, CA. AIAA.

                                                Schmidt T. 1984. Unusual sailing systems for kites. The Naval Architect E, 75±76.

                                                Schmidt T. 1985/1995. Hapa development 1980±1985. Reprinted in Ultimate Sailing III. AYRS Publication No. 118.

                                                Schmidt T. 1991. A short history of Hapas. Foils and Hapas. AYRS Publication No. 108.

                                                Schmidt T. 1994/1996. Hagedoorn, Glencross and the Hapa. Ultimate Sailing IV. AYRS Publication No. 122.

                                              • Joe Faust
                                                Hello all, Seaglider is back for the summer, here is the last test flight completed by Eloi Rondeau and Rapace Kites. you will see magnificient s flights on
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Apr 17, 2012

                                                  Hello all,


                                                  Seaglider is back for the summer, here is the last test flight completed by Eloi Rondeau and Rapace Kites.


                                                  you will see magnificient's flights on the second part on the video :


                                                  http://vimeo.com/40450870


                                                  have a look on www.seaglider.fr  and on facebook and our sponsors who support us to create all those flights !

                                                   

                                                  have fun ,


                                                  Stephane Rousson
                                                  Tel : 00 33 (0)6 03 83 82 76
                                                  www.rousson.org
                                                  www.scubster.org
                                                  www.seaglider.fr

                                                • Joe Faust
                                                  Improved source on the article: J.H. Hagedoorn – inventing the Hapa: A review of a geophysicist s ‘other’ work and how it inspired others The official
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Apr 16, 2013
                                                    Improved source on the article: 

                                                    J.H. Hagedoorn – inventing the Hapa: A review of a geophysicist's ‘other’ work and how it inspired others    The official abstract is here:
                                                     http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2478.2001.00296.x/abstract
                                                     PDF available here:
                                                     http://ebookbrowse.com/66251685-hagedoorn-inventing-the-hapa-pdf-d377690427

                                                    Article written by Theodor Schmidt


                                                    ~
                                                    JoeF
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