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Venetian blind Kite-Energy Systems

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  • Joe Faust
    Venetian blind Kite-Energy Systems Meta-talking points: * This thread invites disclosure and study of various Venetian-blind KESs
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 16, 2011

      Venetian blind Kite-Energy Systems

      Meta-talking points:

      • This thread invites disclosure and study of various "Venetian-blind KESs "
      • Entry at AWE Glossary to date (ever open for advancing by anyone): 
        "Venetian Blinds Kite-Energy System   by Wayne German.   Vertically set wing elements.  Full disclosure has not been made yet.   Wayne German very briefly made a sketch at HAWP Conference 2009 and briefly said a few words about the matter.    Wayne's NDA damps discussion somewhat.  Cross-wind flying occurs in the VB-KES.
      • Would the 1970s Selsam laddermill disclosure  fit into the branch of KESs called Venetian Blind?
      • Would the later Ockels' laddermill rotating stack of kites fit into the branch of KESs called Venetian Blinds?  [Not Ockels' simple stack like in the sailing stack , but his endless loop of rungs that rotate ---The group is setting such focus to back burner in preference for fixed-sail stack and also reeling yo-yo methods.]
      • Would the oscillatory endless loop of flying-wing elements set in arch-kite format  for groundgen and ground-sprag be a Venetian Blind player?
      • DaveL's notes on specifying a KES.  Checklist.       Degrees of freedom .
      • Getting familiar with Dave Lang's tether program.  
        • GTOSS   Generalized Tethered Object Simulation System           
        • Face Venetian Blind KES No. 1, No. 2, etc. 
        •  How might we get Dave Lang  funded to lead a project to further simulation/emulation of KESs?   Any ideas on this? Could a team inclusive of Wayne German, Brooks Coleman of ZapKites , etc. be formed and funded?   Maybe join CATIA® team, Disney animator artists, Dave Santos, NASA ... collaboration of sensors, illustrators, physicists, engineerrs, kite system designers,  game designers... Maybe DSM of Dyneema (they just invested strongly in SkySails and would benefit from the tether and bridle sets) could get interested...maybe Google.org also?
      • Getting familiar with CATIA®      CATIA is Dassault Systèmes Pioneer Brand     Site1     GenLink
      • A body in a flow of a medium (soil, water, air, soup, etc.)  has dynamically changing  lift and drag resultants, has rotations, inertia, instantaneous velocities, accelerations, bridles (fixed or variable), etc. For brief "L/D body" is a title to cover the fullness of a body's conditions and reactions.   A KES has two L/D bodies couple by a tether set.  A tether set might be empty or with a cardinal number of 1 or 2 or 3, or more.   At the empty tether set, one might see a fusion of the two L/D bodies into one L/D body to find an integral aircraft like, say a sailplane flying without tether.   KES concerns generally come into party play when the tether set has at least one tether between at least two L/D bodies.     Anchoring to earth brings earth as one of the two L/D bodies in some KESs. Collaboration among Moritz Diehl and any others doing careful modelling of KES?   KES Simulation Team? 
      • Preliminary Study on Kite Autonomy, Design, Model, and Control, November 2007 Masters Thesis of Gabriel Weilenmann and Frederick Tischhauser
      • ?

      JoeF 

    • German
      Two points I should have said: 1. The QT that Nokia offers to program most anything worthwhile with just one set of software can be found at qt.nokia.com
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 16, 2011
        Two points I should have said:

        1. The "QT" that Nokia offers to program most anything worthwhile with just one set of software can be found at qt.nokia.com not qt.com as I said earlier today. I believe it to be the best single example of how one website can cover most anything worthwhile in a single discipline educationally, professionally, or in this case both. Take a look and you will see how everything is really well laid out and almost any hardware that one might wish to program can be programmed once and then simply directed to execute on any number of different hardware from cell phones, to laptops, and most anything useful in between. But what is so great is that most any function anyone would wish is here also to simply include. No one needs to develop the wheel over and over again. As a professional programmer I cannot say enough good things about what they have done on this website and how they have done it. Maybe just maybe the emulators that we are discussing developing -- aeronautical, wind turbine, and tether should be merged not only to execute stand alone, maybe they should be developed to be add ons to what this website provides and written in one of the languages that it makes available. That would ensure that something like 600,000 developers that now use QT would be available and know how to develop and program using the tools sets offered on the qt.nokia.com website. One thing that makes this particularly attractive is that this website also offers multiple levels of certifications and multiple branches of interest that programmers can be certified in. This means that while you might choose to hire a programmer in Egypt (perhaps due to the fact that people on average in Egypt earn less than $2 dollars per day) then even if they have no college, if they have the certification you can have good confidence they will know this qt toolset well and how to program your application with it. And with all the money you save why not hire nine of them and give birth to your project in a month -- rather than the nine months one programmer might take. (If you were a programmer you would know that I am being facetious. Being at the tail end of all projects programmers are often expected to perform such miracles to compensate for all other slippages that no one ever cares about until they all wait for the programmers to do their thing. This is my way of including some customary programmer's griping and complaining up front because if I didn't you wouldn't recognize me as a programmer now would you?)

        2. All things considered Joe Faust is God's gift to Tethered Flight Technology. I don't know anyone who would have put himself out to such extent for the rest of us -- and all the while looking and acting so consistently congenial, friendly, and helpful that unsuspecting newcomers might think it's his real character.

        Sincerely, though, Joe, God bless you. Not many of the rest of us think to do so also -- or nearly as often as we should. You are what keeps the rest of us going in coordinated directions without killing each other along the way -- just for the sheer spite of it all.

        -- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Faust" <joefaust333@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Venetian blind Kite-Energy Systems
        >
        > Meta-talking points:
        >
        > * This thread invites disclosure and study of various "Venetian-blind
        > KESs <http://www.energykitesystems.net/KES/KES.jpg> "
        >
        > * Entry at AWE Glossary to date (ever open for advancing by anyone):
        > "Venetian Blinds Kite-Energy System by Wayne German. Vertically set
        > wing elements. Full disclosure has not been made yet. Wayne German
        > very briefly made a sketch at HAWP Conference 2009 and briefly said a
        > few words about the matter. Wayne's NDA damps discussion somewhat.
        > Cross-wind flying occurs in the VB-KES.
        >
        > * Would the 1970s Selsam laddermill disclosure
        > <http://www.speakerfactory.net/kitewindmill1sm.jpg> fit into the
        > branch of KESs called Venetian Blind?
        >
        > * Would the later Ockels' laddermill rotating stack of kites fit into
        > the branch of KESs called Venetian Blinds? [Not Ockels' simple stack
        > like in the sailing stack
        > <http://www.lr.tudelft.nl/live/pagina.jsp?id=fe263f84-29af-4010-8222-2f1\
        > 112c8f223&lang=en&binary=/doc/Alex%20Podgaets%20ICET%20December%202007.p\
        > df> , but his endless loop of rungs that rotate ---The group is setting
        > such focus to back burner in preference for fixed-sail stack and also
        > reeling yo-yo methods.]
        >
        > * Would the oscillatory endless loop of flying-wing elements set in
        > arch-kite format
        > <http://energykitesystems.net/AWEdraft/upperCWarchEL.jpg> for
        > groundgen and ground-sprag be a Venetian Blind player?
        >
        > * DaveL's notes on specifying a KES. Checklist. Degrees of
        > freedom
        > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrees_of_freedom_(physics_and_chemistry)\
        > > .
        >
        > * Getting familiar with Dave Lang's tether program.
        >
        > * GTOSS <http://tinyurl.com/GTOSS8888DaveLangTETHERPROGRAM>
        > Generalized Tethered Object Simulation System
        > * Face Venetian Blind KES No. 1, No. 2, etc.
        > * How might we get Dave Lang
        > <http://www.energykitesystems.net/DaveLang/index.html> funded to lead
        > a project to further simulation/emulation of KESs? Any ideas on this?
        > Could a team inclusive of Wayne German, Brooks Coleman of ZapKites
        > <http://www.energykitesystems.net/0/ZapKites/index.html> , etc. be
        > formed and funded? Maybe join CATIA® team, Disney animator artists,
        > Dave Santos, NASA ... collaboration of sensors, illustrators,
        > physicists, engineerrs, kite system designers, game designers... Maybe
        > DSM of Dyneema (they just invested strongly in SkySails and would
        > benefit from the tether and bridle sets) could get interested...maybe
        > Google.org also?
        >
        > * Getting familiar with CATIA® CATIA is Dassault Systèmes
        > Pioneer Brand Site1 <http://www.3ds.com/products/catia> GenLink
        > <http://tinyurl.com/CATIAgeneral>
        >
        > * A body in a flow of a medium (soil, water, air, soup, etc.) has
        > dynamically changing lift and drag resultants, has rotations, inertia,
        > instantaneous velocities, accelerations, bridles (fixed or variable),
        > etc. For brief "L/D body" is a title to cover the fullness of a body's
        > conditions and reactions. A KES has two L/D bodies couple by a tether
        > set. A tether set might be empty or with a cardinal number of 1 or 2 or
        > 3, or more. At the empty tether set, one might see a fusion of the two
        > L/D bodies into one L/D body to find an integral aircraft like, say a
        > sailplane flying without tether. KES concerns generally come into
        > party play when the tether set has at least one tether between at least
        > two L/D bodies. Anchoring to earth brings earth as one of the two
        > L/D bodies in some KESs. Collaboration among Moritz Diehl and any others
        > doing careful modelling of KES? KES Simulation Team?
        >
        > * Preliminary Study on Kite Autonomy, Design, Model, and Control,
        > November 2007 Masters Thesis of Gabriel Weilenmann and Frederick
        > Tischhauser <http://students.asl.ethz.ch/upl_pdf/41-report.pdf>
        >
        > * ?
        >
        > JoeF
        >
      • Doug
        Yes Joe, I used to describe the idea now called Laddermill as an endless loop of venetian blinds, back in the 1970 s. Wooden venetian blind blades make
        Message 3 of 3 , Feb 17, 2011
          Yes Joe, I used to describe the idea now called "Laddermill" as an endless loop of venetian blinds, back in the 1970's. Wooden venetian blind blades make great blanks for wind turbine blades. A working venetian "blind wind" turbine using lift must separate the blades sufficiently that they really won't look that much like venetian blinds in practice, but mostly empty space with the occasional blade traveling by. Remember, working wind turbine rotors have something like a 2% solidity, and that gets less and less as you approach the tips, where you need over a 99% air/blade ratio for good performance. So that's a "venetian blind with" 99 out of every 100 blades removed, traveling real real fast..

          A cross-wind, horizontal-travel venetian blind turbine was built and tested decades ago in Tehachapi at Oak Creek windfarm, and it blew apart as far as I know.

          A key factor is the 120 - 150 mph it would travel, even as a terrestrially-based system, and,
          How long such a cable assembly traveling that fast could hold up to wear and turbulence?

          Note: travel speed of a rotating blade at the hub approaches zero at any wind speed. That near-zero speed at the hub is your open door to low wear and high control. Consider the wheel, and whether this is another attempted re-invention thereof. Spin your venetian blind blades in a circle across the wind and you are back at the good- ole' propeller.

          Doug Selsam
          http://www.selsam.com


          --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Faust" <joefaust333@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Venetian blind Kite-Energy Systems
          >
          > Meta-talking points:
          >
          > * This thread invites disclosure and study of various "Venetian-blind
          > KESs <http://www.energykitesystems.net/KES/KES.jpg> "
          >
          > * Entry at AWE Glossary to date (ever open for advancing by anyone):
          > "Venetian Blinds Kite-Energy System by Wayne German. Vertically set
          > wing elements. Full disclosure has not been made yet. Wayne German
          > very briefly made a sketch at HAWP Conference 2009 and briefly said a
          > few words about the matter. Wayne's NDA damps discussion somewhat.
          > Cross-wind flying occurs in the VB-KES.
          >
          > * Would the 1970s Selsam laddermill disclosure
          > <http://www.speakerfactory.net/kitewindmill1sm.jpg> fit into the
          > branch of KESs called Venetian Blind?
          >
          > * Would the later Ockels' laddermill rotating stack of kites fit into
          > the branch of KESs called Venetian Blinds? [Not Ockels' simple stack
          > like in the sailing stack
          > <http://www.lr.tudelft.nl/live/pagina.jsp?id=fe263f84-29af-4010-8222-2f1\
          > 112c8f223&lang=en&binary=/doc/Alex%20Podgaets%20ICET%20December%202007.p\
          > df> , but his endless loop of rungs that rotate ---The group is setting
          > such focus to back burner in preference for fixed-sail stack and also
          > reeling yo-yo methods.]
          >
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