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Re: [AWECS] Distinction and thesis by Lorenzo Fagiano

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  • Ugo Bardi
    If you allow me a little note on this point, I remember that I had proposed the name kitegen to Massimo Ippolito a few years ago. Before, he had called his
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 22, 2010
      If you allow me a little note on this point, I remember that I had proposed the name "kitegen" to Massimo Ippolito a few years ago. Before, he had called his idea "Kiwigen" ("KIte WInd GENerator) - which sounded like something made in New Zealand or sold in the vegetable market. Ippolito agreed with me and from then on we started using that name. At that time, Mr Fagiano and his coworkers at the Politecnico di Torino probably didn't even know that such a thing as AWE existed.

      Unfortunately, neither myself nor Ippolito placed a copyright on the name, so I see now that people are fighting for the rights of the name. Which is all right, after all, what is in a name? That which we call kitegen, by any other name, would fly so nice. Also, a kitegen is a kitegen is a kitegen.....

      UB


      On 12/22/2010 02:54 AM, Joe Faust wrote:
       

      "The name "KiteGen" has been coined at Politecnico di Torino, well before the foundation of KiteGen Research s.r.l., and it has been the name of the first research project, funded by Regione Piemonte and coordinated by Politecnico di Torino, aimed to investigate high-altitude wind energy using power kites."  Note in 2010 in the following linked final thesis of 2009.

      Clipped quote from:  Lorenzo Fagiano in his Ph.D. thesis, which see.  9 Mb, PDF document.

      He decided to face the possible confusion by using instead of KiteGen the term HAWE for high altitude wind energy.

      Title: Control of Tethered Airfoils for High–AltitudeWind Energy Generation



      -- 
      
      *******************************
      Prof. Ugo Bardi
      Dipartimento di Chimica -Università di Firenze and
      ASPO - association for the study of peak oil
      Via della Lastruccia 3, 50019 Sesto Fiorentino, Fi
      Tel +39 055 4573118
      *******************************
    • Massimo
      the original work of Fagiano, were is easy to understand that kitegen is clearly linked to our organisation, is here:
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 2, 2011
        the original work of Fagiano, were is easy to understand that kitegen is clearly linked to our organisation, is here:

        http://www.awec2010.com/public/views/pages/publications.php
        http://www.awec2010.com/public/img/media/fagiano.pdf

        I think it isn't a good reference for Fagiano to change the contents of his master thesis and dissimulate the origin and the contest of a scientific work.
        My concern is that he will pay in professional credibility.

        M.


        --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Ugo Bardi <ugo.bardi@...> wrote:
        >
        > If you allow me a little note on this point, I remember that I had
        > proposed the name "kitegen" to Massimo Ippolito a few years ago. Before,
        > he had called his idea "Kiwigen" ("KIte WInd GENerator) - which sounded
        > like something made in New Zealand or sold in the vegetable market.
        > Ippolito agreed with me and from then on we started using that name. At
        > that time, Mr Fagiano and his coworkers at the Politecnico di Torino
        > probably didn't even know that such a thing as AWE existed.
        >
        > Unfortunately, neither myself nor Ippolito placed a copyright on the
        > name, so I see now that people are fighting for the rights of the name.
        > Which is all right, after all, what is in a name? That which we call
        > kitegen, by any other name, would fly so nice. Also, a kitegen is a
        > kitegen is a kitegen.....
        >
        > UB
        >
        >
        > On 12/22/2010 02:54 AM, Joe Faust wrote:
        > >
        > > "The name "KiteGen" has been coined at *Politecnico di Torino*, well
        > > before the foundation of *KiteGen Research s.r.l.*, and it has been
        > > the name of the first research project, funded by Regione Piemonte and
        > > coordinated by Politecnico di Torino, aimed to investigate
        > > high-altitude wind energy using power kites." Note in 2010 in
        > > the following linked final thesis of 2009.
        > >
        > > Clipped quote from: *Lorenzo Fagiano in his Ph.D. thesis, which see
        > > <http://lorenzofagiano.altervista.org/docs/PhD_thesis_Fagiano_Final.pdf>*.
        > > 9 Mb, PDF document.
        > >
        > > He decided to face the possible confusion by using instead of KiteGen
        > > the term HAWE for high altitude wind energy.
        > >
        > > Title: Control of Tethered Airfoils for High--AltitudeWind Energy
        > > Generation
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > --
        >
        > *******************************
        > Prof. Ugo Bardi
        > Dipartimento di Chimica -Università di Firenze and
        > ASPO - association for the study of peak oil
        > Via della Lastruccia 3, 50019 Sesto Fiorentino, Fi
        > Tel +39 055 4573118
        > *******************************
        >
      • Joe Faust
        Few notes, please: Did you mean content instead of contest .. On point from Timeline: 2009 PhD
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 2, 2011

          Few notes, please:

          Did you mean "content" instead of "contest" ..

          On point from Timeline: 

          2009     PhD dissertation final:  Control of Tethered Airfoils for High–Altitude Wind Energy Generation, Advanced control methods as key technologies for a breakthrough in renewable energy generation.  Lorenzo Fagiano                       [[ED: Though "KiteGen" was known to be a trade name, an unfortunate overlook was installed in the dissertation via a generic use of the trade name without giving pointed credit to the founders of the KiteGen trade name. See earlier time points in 2003 and 2004 and 2005 and 2006.  In a paper co-authored by Fagiano and Ippolito and others in 2006, it was recognized commonly:
                      "This paper illustrates a first study conducted at Respira Lab,
                        a laboratory founded at Politecnico di Torino to design and
                        build a new class of wind generator, indicated as KiteGen,"
           

          >Italicized and bolded for emphasis here.   See:  
          2006    Control of tethered airfoils for a new class of wind energy generator, M. Canale, L. Fagiano, M. Ippolito, M. Milanese, 45th. IEEE Conference on Decision and Control, San Diego (CA), USA, 2006]]

          I am just wondering if the perspectives played in the slip:  perhaps one team long going for actualization and the other going for understanding of control parameters for a dissertation focus; in the wash, perhaps a slip into making generic a rising trade name.   Perhaps a confirmation of KiteGen's priority from Fagiano could be brought forward to soften the understating of  "KiteGen"  trade name in the 2009 doctoral thesis.    In 2003 the renewable energy community was hearing from KiWiGen circle with strong reminders in 2004 and 2005, etc.; and then see other posts for the generation of KiteGen term use.

          JoeF

           


          --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "Massimo" <m.ippolito@...> wrote:
          >
          > the original work of Fagiano, were is easy to understand that kitegen is clearly linked to our organisation, is here:
          >
          > http://www.awec2010.com/public/views/pages/publications.php
          > http://www.awec2010.com/public/img/media/fagiano.pdf
          >
          > I think it isn't a good reference for Fagiano to change the contents of his master thesis and dissimulate the origin and the contest of a scientific work.
          > My concern is that he will pay in professional credibility.
          >
          > M.
          >
          >
          > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Ugo Bardi ugo.bardi@ wrote:
          > >
          > > If you allow me a little note on this point, I remember that I had
          > > proposed the name "kitegen" to Massimo Ippolito a few years ago. Before,
          > > he had called his idea "Kiwigen" ("KIte WInd GENerator) - which sounded
          > > like something made in New Zealand or sold in the vegetable market.
          > > Ippolito agreed with me and from then on we started using that name. At
          > > that time, Mr Fagiano and his coworkers at the Politecnico di Torino
          > > probably didn't even know that such a thing as AWE existed.
          > >
          > > Unfortunately, neither myself nor Ippolito placed a copyright on the
          > > name, so I see now that people are fighting for the rights of the name.
          > > Which is all right, after all, what is in a name? That which we call
          > > kitegen, by any other name, would fly so nice. Also, a kitegen is a
          > > kitegen is a kitegen.....
          > >
          > > UB
          > >
          > >
          > > On 12/22/2010 02:54 AM, Joe Faust wrote:
          > > >
          > > > "The name "KiteGen" has been coined at *Politecnico di Torino*, well
          > > > before the foundation of *KiteGen Research s.r.l.*, and it has been
          > > > the name of the first research project, funded by Regione Piemonte and
          > > > coordinated by Politecnico di Torino, aimed to investigate
          > > > high-altitude wind energy using power kites." Note in 2010 in
          > > > the following linked final thesis of 2009.
          > > >
          > > > Clipped quote from: *Lorenzo Fagiano in his Ph.D. thesis, which see
          > > > <http://lorenzofagiano.altervista.org/docs/PhD_thesis_Fagiano_Final.pdf>*.
          > > > 9 Mb, PDF document.
          > > >
          > > > He decided to face the possible confusion by using instead of KiteGen
          > > > the term HAWE for high altitude wind energy.
          > > >
          > > > Title: Control of Tethered Airfoils for High--AltitudeWind Energy
          > > > Generation
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > >
          > > *******************************
          > > Prof. Ugo Bardi
          > > Dipartimento di Chimica -Università di Firenze and
          > > ASPO - association for the study of peak oil
          > > Via della Lastruccia 3, 50019 Sesto Fiorentino, Fi
          > > Tel +39 055 4573118
          > > *******************************
          > >
          >

        • Joe Faust
          For earlier notes on the KiteGen project and its name birthing, see Timeline for years 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006.
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 2, 2011
             
            For earlier notes on the KiteGen project and its name birthing, see Timeline for years 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006.
             
            and
             
             
            2009     PhD dissertation final:  Control of Tethered Airfoils for High–Altitude Wind Energy Generation, Advanced control methods as key technologies for a breakthrough in renewable energy generation.  Lorenzo Fagiano                       [[ED: Though "KiteGen" was known to be a trade name, an unfortunate overlook was installed in the 2009 dissertation via a generic use of the trade name without giving pointed credit to the founders of the KiteGen trade name. See earlier time points in 2003 and 2004 and 2005 and 2006.  Special note: In a paper co-authored by Fagiano and Ippolito and others in 2006, it was recognized commonly:
                        "This paper illustrates a first study conducted at Respira Lab,
                          a laboratory founded at Politecnico di Torino to design and
                          build a new class of wind generator, indicated as KiteGen,"
             
            The paper goes further and emphatically calls a project name as KiteGen. >Bolded italics for emphasis here.   See:  
            2006    Control of tethered airfoils for a new class of wind energy generator, M. Canale, L. Fagiano, M. Ippolito, M. Milanese, 45th. IEEE Conference on Decision and Control, San Diego (CA), USA, 2006]]  Perhaps a difference of perspectives was occurring that brought an apparent understatement and crediting of the rising trade name of KiteGen; the 2009 dissertation perspective might have been so focused on the important control study while missing the opportunity to uphold the rising actualization interests of the KiteGen team; perhaps a smoothing and softening explanation might come forward from Fagiano.  [ ]
             
            ======================================
          • Pierre Benhaiem
            Extract from Lorenzo Fagiano in his Ph.D. thesis, which see . 9 Mb, PDF document,link
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 3, 2011

              Extract from Lorenzo Fagiano in his Ph.D. thesis, which see.  9 Mb, PDF document,link provided with the initial message by Joe Faust.

              "Note from the author

              I would like to point out here that the research activities that I've carried out during myPh.D. studies have nothing to share with the company named "KiteGen Research s.r.l.".The name "KiteGen" has been coined at Politecnico di Torino, well before the foundation of KiteGen Research s.r.l., and it has been the name of the first research project,funded by Regione Piemonte and coordinated by Politecnico di Torino, aimed to investigate high-altitude wind energy using power kites. This is the reason why I referred to this technology as "KiteGen" in my Ph.D. thesis. KiteGen Research s.r.l. gave no contribution to my research activities and to the related publications. In order to avoid confusion, I've decided to modify my thesis and to refer to the technology with the acronym "HAWE"(High Altitude Wind Energy).

              October  19

              th , 2010

              Lorenzo Fagiano"

              PierreB


               

              --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Faust" <joefaust333@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > "The name "KiteGen" has been coined at Politecnico di Torino,
              > well before the foundation of KiteGen Research s.r.l., and it has been
              > the name of the first research project, funded by Regione Piemonte and
              > coordinated by Politecnico di Torino, aimed to investigate high-altitude
              > wind energy using power kites." Note in 2010 in the following linked
              > final thesis of 2009.
              >
              > Clipped quote from: Lorenzo Fagiano in his Ph.D. thesis, which see
              > <http://lorenzofagiano.altervista.org/docs/PhD_thesis_Fagiano_Final.pdf>
              > . 9 Mb, PDF document.
              >
              > He decided to face the possible confusion by using instead of KiteGen
              > the term HAWE for high altitude wind energy.
              >
              > Title: Control of Tethered Airfoils for High–AltitudeWind Energy
              > Generation
              >

            • Joe Faust
              In the unfolding story and reach for clarity, a distinction may have to be made between the corporation KiteGen Research,s.r.l. and the 2005 (at least)
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 3, 2011
                In the unfolding story and reach for clarity, a distinction may have to be made between the corporation "KiteGen Research,s.r.l." and the 2005 (at least) KiteGen project name that was entering European Commission circles during funding efforts. The "coining" in different camp at Politecnico di Torino must have some kind of date. When collaboration on articles occurred to mix the flow and when coining in either camp occurred on "KiteGen" should become clear as sorting occurs. What date did the "coining" at Politecnico di Torno occur; and what date (as mostly chronicled in prior posts) did the KiWiGen morph to the KiteGen remarkable coining. Two flows of coining, but the timeline is not fully clear. Secondary coining may have been some kind of confusion. Clear timeline points from both camps might help to close the chapter.
              • KITE GEN / Ippolito
                dear all, I m suppling some more info on this topic in order to close this chapter as asked by Joe, and then I prefer join you in more exciting and pure
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 4, 2011
                  dear all,
                  I'm suppling some more info on this topic in order to close this chapter as asked by Joe, and then I prefer join you in more exciting and pure technical exchanges.

                  I was the author, the promoter, the co-financier and the co-responsible of the project of Politecnico di Torino and partially funded by Regione Piemonte, the other co-resposible was prof. M.Milanese.
                  I haven't adopted the KiteGen name in this specific activity,  because it wasn't coined yet (Bardi did it few months after)
                  the title of the project was:
                  Controllo di aquiloni di potenza per la generazione eolica di energia
                  and the presentation date was:
                  11/03/2005
                  The claim of Fagiano is false, and is false that the Ph.D. studies have nothing to share with the KiteGen Research s.r.l. because are integrally based on the KiteGen patents and the lesson and the explications efforts of KiteGen/Sequoia collaborators.
                  I've just sent the copy of this project written in Italian to Joe, just to check.
                  For this reason I am surprised for the Fagiano attitude, that is mystifying the origin and the contest of his work, in the scientific domain, for his future, for publications acceptance this is an harmful reference.

                  Respira:
                  signed constitution accord: 14/12/2005
                  I'm (still) the technical director of the interdepartmental laboratory of Politecnico of Torino named Respira Lab.
                  51% property of regione Piemonte, 20% Sequoia automation, 10% Politecnico of Torino and others.
                  "RESPIRA" in Italian means: "Breathe" and the acronym means:   Renewable Energy Source Piedmont Implementation Research Advocacy
                  this lab was promoted and set up by the rector of the institute: Prof. Giovanni Del Tin (great person and technician, spectacular teacher and huge expert in energy issues).
                  I've provided a free license of my KiteGen patents to this lab for research and development of a KiteGen plant. 
                  Unfortunately the successor of prof. Giovanni Del Tin, the new rector of Politecnico of Torino Francesco Profumo (italian democratic party exponent) freezed the Respira initiative and all the planned funding efforts were diverted to hydrogen energy based projects, unfortunately for everybody Jeremy Rifkin comes in Torino and impressed a large footprint on this story.   
                  Now all the hydrogen project are in bankruptcy and finally is widely understood that is a totally fake direction for any energy application, even Steven Chu cancelled all supports to the hydrogen Economy.
                  I've wasted money and almost one year of my life, due these incredible events.

                  Thats all

                  Massimo Ippolito


                   


                  On 03/01/2011 10.54, Pierre Benhaiem wrote:

                  Extract from Lorenzo Fagiano in his Ph.D. thesis, which see.  9 Mb, PDF document,link provided with the initial message by Joe Faust.

                  "Note from the author

                  I would like to point out here that the research activities that I've carried out during myPh.D. studies have nothing to share with the company named "KiteGen Research s.r.l.".The name "KiteGen" has been coined at Politecnico di Torino, well before the foundation of KiteGen Research s.r.l., and it has been the name of the first research project,funded by Regione Piemonte and coordinated by Politecnico di Torino, aimed to investigate high-altitude wind energy using power kites. This is the reason why I referred to this technology as "KiteGen" in my Ph.D. thesis. KiteGen Research s.r.l. gave no contribution to my research activities and to the related publications. In order to avoid confusion, I've decided to modify my thesis and to refer to the technology with the acronym "HAWE"(High Altitude Wind Energy).

                  October  19th , 2010

                  Lorenzo Fagiano"

                  PierreB


                   

                  --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Faust" <joefaust333@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > "The name "KiteGen" has been coined at Politecnico di Torino,
                  > well before the foundation of KiteGen Research s.r.l., and it has been
                  > the name of the first research project, funded by Regione Piemonte and
                  > coordinated by Politecnico di Torino, aimed to investigate high-altitude
                  > wind energy using power kites." Note in 2010 in the following linked
                  > final thesis of 2009.
                  >
                  > Clipped quote from: Lorenzo Fagiano in his Ph.D. thesis, which see
                  > <http://lorenzofagiano.altervista.org/docs/PhD_thesis_Fagiano_Final.pdf>
                  > . 9 Mb, PDF document.
                  >
                  > He decided to face the possible confusion by using instead of KiteGen
                  > the term HAWE for high altitude wind energy.
                  >
                  > Title: Control of Tethered Airfoils for High–AltitudeWind Energy
                  > Generation
                  >


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