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Re: [AWECS] Birth AWE industry

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  • Joe Faust
    So, DaveL, what I get from your first response is a parameter or aspect of sales as one indicator of whether or not the AWE industry has been born. Has
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 16, 2010

      So, DaveL,
      what I get from your first response is a parameter or aspect of "sales" as one indicator of whether or not the AWE industry has been born. Has anyone sold something in airborne wind energy conversion systems? Yes, both at wholesale and retail level. 

      Have contrracts been formed between customers and providers for AWECS matters?  Yes. 

      Is there a collection of people making, testing, improving, and selling AWECS? Yes.

      Is there an international association serving a collection of commercial and research entities with AWECS as focus?  Yes: http://aweia.org

      Are there  profit-focused groupings or consortiums within the over-300-AWECS-working persons worldwide? Yes, several. 

      Does the newly born industry have challenges?  Yes, very many challenges; and people are working daily to find solutions.

      Are governments having to respond to actions of AWE players' actions?   Yes.

      Are there periodicals serving the AWE  industrial players?  Yes, for one: UpperWindpower 

      Are there people being hired and let go within growing AWECS companies? Yes, regularly so.  Some of the employees are covered by Workman's Compensation insurace as they work full time to forward the aims of their AWE-focused companies; real wages within AWE-focused companies are being paid as production moves forward for targets within the companies.

      Are there some non-profit research agents that are bolstering profit-based AWE companies?  Definitely this is the case.

      Is the AWE industry born?      Perspective?   Those who see that an AWE industry has been born may also see that the industry is a baby. Maturity takes time. BabyAWEindustry

      Some see the baby born. Some do not.   Those--who do not see birth as having taken place yet--are invited to specify the earmarks of the birthing event; for them, what will it take to declare that the AWE industry has been born?

      Some players of the AWE industry mine the wind and produce energy to do practical works. Other players of the AWE industry make and supply the lifting bodies used in the AWE industsry.  Other players are in the research departments advancing the parts  and subassembles of AWECS. There are AWE inventors bringing forward things for AWE scientists to explore and describe. There are AWECS engineers designing and directing the construction of AWECS and changes in such; testing and improving of products is a near-daily occurrence in corners of the AWE world.  

      Already some fossil fuel has been saved substantially by use of installed AWECS.  Traction AWE is a strong part of the babyAWEindustry.  The baby is being launched into early childhood in my perspective.   The AWECS industry has its own internal sectors; some of the sectors are profiting already in sales and services; other AWECS sectors have not seen anything but the spending of investments. The traction sector is already profitable; the free-flight sector is also already profiting. AWECS-obtained electricity for sale to village or region grids is not yet occurring, as the baby just has not so acted yet.

      JoeF

    • Dave Lang
      Joe, Well, er, I guess with the overwhelming preponderance of irrefutable indications you enumerate below, I would have to recant, and say that, by gar, AWE
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 16, 2010
        Re: [AWECS] Birth AWE industry
        Joe,

        Well, er, I guess with the overwhelming preponderance of irrefutable indications you enumerate below, I would have to recant, and say that, "by gar, AWE IS an industry"....sorry that us unperceptive Drachen observers at AWEC2010 failed to pick up on this :-(.....oh, as an aside, exactly what "customers have bought AWE devices", and how much funds were involved in those transactions?

        DaveL

        PS. I just realized that UNLIKE  ALL other industries I have ever worked in for over 45 years (and that includes some industries that I think folks might find questionably so-defined, such as the "Space Elevator" and Multi-tether Balloon logging")....BUT....in which I received respectable wages, I now find myself working for no wages at all in the AWE industry...oh well, I guess times ARE changing :-)



        At 10:59 PM +0000 12/16/10, Joe Faust wrote:
         
        So, DaveL,
        what I get from your first response is a parameter or aspect of "sales" as one indicator of whether or not the AWE industry has been born. Has anyone sold something in airborne wind energy conversion systems? Yes, both at wholesale and retail level.
        Have contrracts been formed between customers and providers for AWECS matters?  Yes.
        Is there a collection of people making, testing, improving, and selling AWECS? Yes.
        Is there an international association serving a collection of commercial and research entities with AWECS as focus?  Yes: http://aweia.org
        Are there  profit-focused groupings or consortiums within the over-300-AWECS-working persons worldwide? Yes, several.
        Does the newly born industry have challenges?  Yes, very many challenges; and people are working daily to find solutions.
        Are governments having to respond to actions of AWE players' actions?   Yes.
        Are there periodicals serving the AWE  industrial players?  Yes, for one: UpperWindpower
        Are there people being hired and let go within growing AWECS companies? Yes, regularly so.  Some of the employees are covered by Workman's Compensation insurace as they work full time to forward the aims of their AWE-focused companies; real wages within AWE-focused companies are being paid as production moves forward for targets within the companies.
        Are there some non-profit research agents that are bolstering profit-based AWE companies?  Definitely this is the case.
        Is the AWE industry born?      Perspective?   Those who see that an AWE industry has been born may also see that the industry is a baby. Maturity takes time. BabyAWEindustry?
        Some see the baby born. Some do not.   Those--who do not see birth as having taken place yet--are invited to specify the earmarks of the birthing event; for them, what will it take to declare that the AWE industry has been born?
        Some players of the AWE industry mine the wind and produce energy to do practical works. Other players of the AWE industry make and supply the lifting bodies used in the AWE industsry.  Other players are in the research departments advancing the parts  and subassembles of AWECS. There are AWE inventors bringing forward things for AWE scientists to explore and describe. There are AWECS engineers designing and directing the construction of AWECS and changes in such; testing and improving of products is a near-daily occurrence in corners of the AWE world. 
        Already some fossil fuel has been saved substantially by use of installed AWECS.  Traction AWE is a strong part of the babyAWEindustry.  The baby is being launched into early childhood in my perspective.   The AWECS industry has its own internal sectors; some of the sectors are profiting already in sales and services; other AWECS sectors have not seen anything but the spending of investments. The traction sector is already profitable; the free-flight sector is also already profiting. AWECS-obtained electricity for sale to village or region grids is not yet occurring, as the baby just has not so acted yet.

        JoeF

      • Doug
        The baby has its leg twisted so it can t get out. Looks like a stillbirth to me. Sorry. Oh wait, the baby refuses to be born. I think I hear it: it s
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 17, 2010
          The baby has its leg twisted so it can't get out. Looks like a stillbirth to me. Sorry.

          Oh wait, the baby refuses to be born. I think I hear it: it's waiting for bureaucrats to pull it out of its orifice.

          Is it an industry?
          Well perhaps in the sense that people are putting work into it... or is it play - mere recreation? Only results really count. Does it need a smokestack to be an industry? A listing on the NASDAQ? Some press releases? Or does someone, somewhere have to be using one - maybe a few people using them - maybe a few systems running in an economically-advantageous manner?

          Discussing whether it's an industry has become an industry in itself.
          In fact, I think--discussing it--IS the industry for the most part.
          Yahoo is making some money right now.

          Are you really changing anything to ask this question, or is this question a better question for Webster's dictionary? Are we examining what we're doing, or are we investigating the meaning of a word, testing the borders of vocabulary, so as to be able to congratulate ourselves on being part of an "industry"? Is this an engineering discussion of an overdue area of research, or a vocabulary quiz?

          What's the point?
          If you can possibly rationalize using a certain word to describe the same reality, what has changed?

          Does more time go into building them or talking about them?

          If someone has an application that requires a working AWE system, where can they get one?

          And why is this so, if NASA is interested. Oh wait - they're waiting for some kid to build it on $100 budget. Then they can schedule $1,000,000 conferences around it and discuss how it can't be done.

          Ah remember the good ole' Saturn 5 rockets?
          Now THAT was a NASA I could get behind.

          :)))
          Doug Selsam



          --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Faust" <joefaust333@...> wrote: SEE THREAD MESSAGES.
        • Doug
          If all progress stopped today, would this field of endeavor, as it exists today, be looked at by history as an industry ? I guess it would have to have a
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 17, 2010
            If all progress stopped today, would this field of endeavor, as it exists today, be looked at by history as an "industry"?

            I guess it would have to have a growth stage, a peak, then a decline. Say the peak has already passed. So if we are in a decline now of a disappearing industry, what is (was) the industry? What is the product? (hot air?) Who are the customers? (us?) What were the hallmarks of the heyday of this "industry"? Self-congratulation on not having a working system? Is that the peak? Or is it all the happy Magenn customers with all that excess power that they don't know what to do with? Or is it the NASA airborne wind energy system?

            If I am walking along and I trip and fall and knock all my teeth out, is that an industry?

            Doug S.
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