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Re: Spiralairfoil Solution

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  • joe_f_90032
    If I am reading you correctly, then: Keep it going! Have very powerful lifter kite or kites to hold up the torsion lower segment; the upper kite tether does
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 5, 2009
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      If I am reading you correctly, then:
      Keep it going!

      Have very powerful lifter kite or kites to hold up the torsion lower segment; the upper kite tether does not rotate , as a swivel is at the top of the SpiralFoil where the upper tether attaches. Only the lower torsion section from SpiralFoil on down to torsion-receiving station.    Generator remains in base station.     Some will use LTA kytoon kites, some will use HTA SSK (heavier-than-air single-line kite).  Some will use the modified LTA spiral balloonish devices moved forward by torsion devices outlined by Geoffrey Goeggel  at http://www.hicon.us/gpage7.html and  http://www.hicon.us/gpage16.html   Geoff Goeggel  .   Others will add many sorts of torsion-producing items on the torsion tube or torsion rod segment.    Advanced materials will assist in allowing the torsion sector to be long.

      The high altitude winds can assist in keeping the AWE lofted; however only the winds at the torsion sector are operating to give torsion.

      Fun family of AWE devices will arrive from your suggestion!  Demo could be today. We await another vid from you soon.     

    • Darin Selby
      How about using two of your spiral airfoils in this way. One is upside-down on top of the other, and a generator inbetween. Then you have an opposed-spinning
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 5, 2009
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      How about using two of your spiral airfoils in this way.  One is upside-down on top of the other, and a generator inbetween.  Then you have an opposed-spinning action that cancels the torque on the conductive tether (speaker wire).  I show it being held aloft by a balloon, though a kite will also work.  ~Darin

      To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      From: joefaust333@...
      Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 01:38:38 +0000
      Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] Re: Spiralairfoil Solution

       

       
      If I am reading you correctly, then:
      Keep it going!
      Have very powerful lifter kite or kites to hold up the torsion lower segment; the upper kite tether does not rotate , as a swivel is at the top of the SpiralFoil where the upper tether attaches. Only the lower torsion section from SpiralFoil on down to torsion-receiving station.    Generator remains in base station.     Some will use LTA kytoon kites, some will use HTA SSK (heavier-than- air single-line kite).  Some will use the modified LTA spiral balloonish devices moved forward by torsion devices outlined by Geoffrey Goeggel  at http://www.hicon. us/gpage7. html and  http://www.hicon. us/gpage16. html   Geoff Goeggel  .   Others will add many sorts of torsion-producing items on the torsion tube or torsion rod segment.    Advanced materials will assist in allowing the torsion sector to be long.
      The high altitude winds can assist in keeping the AWE lofted; however only the winds at the torsion sector are operating to give torsion.
      Fun family of AWE devices will arrive from your suggestion!  Demo could be today. We await another vid from you soon.     



      Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
    • joe_f_90032
      http://www.energykitesystems.net/spral/DanParker/index.html LiftedSpiralAirfoilTORSION
      Message 3 of 19 , Sep 5, 2009
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      • Dan Parker
        Hi Joe, The Patent on the Spiralairfoil calls for many variation in design, including extended long Spiralairfoils, I guess I was a lttle vague in my first
        Message 4 of 19 , Sep 6, 2009
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          Hi Joe,
           
                  The Patent on the Spiralairfoil calls for many variation in design, including extended long Spiralairfoils, I guess I was a lttle vague in my first description of how the Earth Spiral is attached, in your diagram bellow you've got the Earth Spiral hanging from the line as a Cristmas bulb would hang, which is not correct due to my rather poor fist post, however if you take the top of the Earth Spiral and point it down line heading for the genny, and you connect the bottom of the Earth Spiral up line to the lifter, i.e. so the main shaft is in line and paralell to the line of tension.
                   The Genny would have a hollow shaft, the tether line will have a small but rugged lite weight swivel every 500 hundred feet. the winch/ reel will go throught the center of the genny on up the hollow flex shaft,  up to the lifter, a small pulley attached to the lifter(your choice) will then return the line back down to the back end of the Spiralairfoil. By doing above will allow the height of the lifter to be optimized. The genny and reel/winch will be built together so they rotate around 360 degress as needed. Keep in mind that the reel/winch is directly behind the Genny.
                     Again, This based upon one continuos line and not two seperate systems as in you diagram below. There is no problem attaching more then one Spiralairfoil to the Flex drive shaft other then the lack of enough lift.
           
                                                                                                                        Dan'l 

          To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
          From: joefaust333@...
          Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 04:17:26 +0000
          Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] Re: Spiralairfoil Solution

           


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        • spiralairfoil
          Hi Joe,
          Message 5 of 19 , Sep 6, 2009
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            Hi Joe,

            Yes i do believe you've got it by george, Alas, it boils down to funding for all these concepts to mature into reality but this concept gives continous power and is far simple i.e cost effective. Keep in mind that the Earth Spiral is very rugged and can be dropped and kicked around and abused so if it does come done to land it won't be hurt, please also note that the Earth Spiral design will be nade of carbon composite or epoxy, fiberglass wings, light weight yet rugged. --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "joe_f_90032" <joefaust333@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > If I am reading you correctly, then:
            > Keep it going!
            >
            > Have very powerful lifter kite or kites to hold up the torsion lower
            > segment; the upper kite tether does not rotate , as a swivel is at the
            > top of the SpiralFoil where the upper tether attaches. Only the lower
            > torsion section from SpiralFoil on down to torsion-receiving station.
            > Generator remains in base station. Some will use LTA kytoon kites,
            > some will use HTA SSK (heavier-than-air single-line kite). Some will
            > use the modified LTA spiral balloonish devices moved forward by torsion
            > devices outlined by Geoffrey Goeggel at http://www.hicon.us/gpage7.html
            > <http://www.hicon.us/gpage7.html> and http://www.hicon.us/gpage16.html
            > <http://www.hicon.us/gpage16.html> Geoff Goeggel
            > <http://www.hicon.us/gpage6.html> . Others will add many sorts of
            > torsion-producing items on the torsion tube or torsion rod segment.
            > Advanced materials will assist in allowing the torsion sector to be
            > long.
            >
            > The high altitude winds can assist in keeping the AWE lofted; however
            > only the winds at the torsion sector are operating to give torsion.
            >
            > Fun family of AWE devices will arrive from your suggestion! Demo could
            > be today. We await another vid from you soon.
            >
          • spiralairfoil
            Hi Joe,
            Message 6 of 19 , Sep 6, 2009
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              Hi Joe,

              Yes i do believe you've got it by george, Alas, it boils down to funding for all these concepts to mature into reality but this concept gives continous power and is far simple i.e cost effective. Keep in mind that the Earth Spiral is very rugged and can be dropped and kicked around and abused so if it does come done to land it won't be hurt, please also note that the Earth Spiral design will be nade of carbon composite or epoxy, fiberglass wings, light weight yet rugged. --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "joe_f_90032" <joefaust333@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > If I am reading you correctly, then:
              > Keep it going!
              >
              > Have very powerful lifter kite or kites to hold up the torsion lower
              > segment; the upper kite tether does not rotate , as a swivel is at the
              > top of the SpiralFoil where the upper tether attaches. Only the lower
              > torsion section from SpiralFoil on down to torsion-receiving station.
              > Generator remains in base station. Some will use LTA kytoon kites,
              > some will use HTA SSK (heavier-than-air single-line kite). Some will
              > use the modified LTA spiral balloonish devices moved forward by torsion
              > devices outlined by Geoffrey Goeggel at http://www.hicon.us/gpage7.html
              > <http://www.hicon.us/gpage7.html> and http://www.hicon.us/gpage16.html
              > <http://www.hicon.us/gpage16.html> Geoff Goeggel
              > <http://www.hicon.us/gpage6.html> . Others will add many sorts of
              > torsion-producing items on the torsion tube or torsion rod segment.
              > Advanced materials will assist in allowing the torsion sector to be
              > long.
              >
              > The high altitude winds can assist in keeping the AWE lofted; however
              > only the winds at the torsion sector are operating to give torsion.
              >
              > Fun family of AWE devices will arrive from your suggestion! Demo could
              > be today. We await another vid from you soon.
              >
            • Dan Parker
              Hi Darin I m not quite sure just what yah mean, but many varions are possible. If you care to try and explain it a little futher I m all ears. Dan l To:
              Message 7 of 19 , Sep 6, 2009
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                 Hi Darin
                 
                         I'm not quite sure just what yah mean, but many varions are possible. If you care to try and explain it a little futher I'm all ears.
                 
                                                                                                        Dan'l

                To: airbornewindenergy@yahoogroups.com
                From: darin_selby@...
                Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 03:38:50 +0000
                Subject: RE: [AirborneWindEnergy] Re: Spiralairfoil Solution [1 Attachment]

                 
                [Attachment(s) from Darin Selby included below]


                How about using two of your spiral airfoils in this way.  One is upside-down on top of the other, and a generator inbetween.  Then you have an opposed-spinning action that cancels the torque on the conductive tether (speaker wire).  I show it being held aloft by a balloon, though a kite will also work.  ~Darin

                To: AirborneWindEnergy@ yahoogroups. com
                From: joefaust333@ gmail.com
                Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 01:38:38 +0000
                Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy ] Re: Spiralairfoil Solution

                 

                 
                If I am reading you correctly, then:
                Keep it going!
                Have very powerful lifter kite or kites to hold up the torsion lower segment; the upper kite tether does not rotate , as a swivel is at the top of the SpiralFoil where the upper tether attaches. Only the lower torsion section from SpiralFoil on down to torsion-receiving station.    Generator remains in base station.     Some will use LTA kytoon kites, some will use HTA SSK (heavier-than- air single-line kite).  Some will use the modified LTA spiral balloonish devices moved forward by torsion devices outlined by Geoffrey Goeggel  at http://www.hicon. us/gpage7. html and  http://www.hicon. us/gpage16. html   Geoff Goeggel  .   Others will add many sorts of torsion-producing items on the torsion tube or torsion rod segment.    Advanced materials will assist in allowing the torsion sector to be long.
                The high altitude winds can assist in keeping the AWE lofted; however only the winds at the torsion sector are operating to give torsion.
                Fun family of AWE devices will arrive from your suggestion!  Demo could be today. We await another vid from you soon.     



                Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.




                Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
              • spiralairfoil
                Hi Joe, What I like more, for it s simplicity sake is to attache the lift cable directly to the lifter using bearing/swivel at the top and segmented down the
                Message 8 of 19 , Sep 6, 2009
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                  Hi Joe,

                  What I like more, for it's simplicity sake is to attache the lift cable directly to the lifter using bearing/swivel at the top and segmented down the lenght of the lifter line, thus getting ride of the pully and keeping the line simple up ward instead of up to a pully and back down to the back of Spiralairfoil.Better use of weight factoring, one line better then two.Keep in mind the hollow genny/winch/real feed sys.

                  Dan'

                  Joe, Please note, I'm aware that I've given this one up to the world by annoucing it, in the think tank, I'm comfy with that, as I'm burnt out by the legal beagle stuff, but I do hope whomever uses this concepts remembers it started with Spiralairfoil and when they rake in the doe that they may by grace and not greed kick some back.

                  Joe, So any use of this concept is now hereby free to any person/persons or groups whom want to utilize it. There are no conditions. Greed will have a feeding frenzy.


                  --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Dan Parker <spiralairfoil@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Joe,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The Patent on the Spiralairfoil calls for many variation in design, including extended long Spiralairfoils, I guess I was a lttle vague in my first description of how the Earth Spiral is attached, in your diagram bellow you've got the Earth Spiral hanging from the line as a Cristmas bulb would hang, which is not correct due to my rather poor fist post, however if you take the top of the Earth Spiral and point it down line heading for the genny, and you connect the bottom of the Earth Spiral up line to the lifter, i.e. so the main shaft is in line and paralell to the line of tension.
                  >
                  > The Genny would have a hollow shaft, the tether line will have a small but rugged lite weight swivel every 500 hundred feet. the winch/ reel will go throught the center of the genny on up the hollow flex shaft, up to the lifter, a small pulley attached to the lifter(your choice) will then return the line back down to the back end of the Spiralairfoil. By doing above will allow the height of the lifter to be optimized. The genny and reel/winch will be built together so they rotate around 360 degress as needed. Keep in mind that the reel/winch is directly behind the Genny.
                  > Again, This based upon one continuos line and not two seperate systems as in you diagram below. There is no problem attaching more then one Spiralairfoil to the Flex drive shaft other then the lack of enough lift.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Dan'l
                  >
                  >
                  > To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: joefaust333@...
                  > Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 04:17:26 +0000
                  > Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] Re: Spiralairfoil Solution
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www.energykitesystems.net/spral/DanParker/index.html
                  >
                  > LiftedSpiralAirfoilTORSION is a discussion drawing by JoeF
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > HotmailĀ® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
                  > http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
                  >
                • Dan Parker
                  Hi Joe, This part I m not sure of but I was thinking out at sea, where the winds a strong, suppose the lifter and the Spiralairfoil were allowed to float when
                  Message 9 of 19 , Sep 6, 2009
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                    Hi Joe,
                     
                            This part I'm not sure of but I was thinking out at sea, where the winds a strong, suppose the lifter and the Spiralairfoil were allowed to float when the breeze dies down suppose the lifter was configed to be floating and up enough to be ready for the next take off, I realize the material list would have to be configed around salt water enviroment.
                     
                                                                                                         Thank for all you do., Dan'l
                     

                    To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
                    From: joefaust333@...
                    Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 01:38:38 +0000
                    Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] Re: Spiralairfoil Solution

                     

                     
                    If I am reading you correctly, then:
                    Keep it going!
                    Have very powerful lifter kite or kites to hold up the torsion lower segment; the upper kite tether does not rotate , as a swivel is at the top of the SpiralFoil where the upper tether attaches. Only the lower torsion section from SpiralFoil on down to torsion-receiving station.    Generator remains in base station.     Some will use LTA kytoon kites, some will use HTA SSK (heavier-than- air single-line kite).  Some will use the modified LTA spiral balloonish devices moved forward by torsion devices outlined by Geoffrey Goeggel  at http://www.hicon. us/gpage7. html and  http://www.hicon. us/gpage16. html   Geoff Goeggel  .   Others will add many sorts of torsion-producing items on the torsion tube or torsion rod segment.    Advanced materials will assist in allowing the torsion sector to be long.
                    The high altitude winds can assist in keeping the AWE lofted; however only the winds at the torsion sector are operating to give torsion.
                    Fun family of AWE devices will arrive from your suggestion!  Demo could be today. We await another vid from you soon.     



                    Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
                  • Dan Parker
                    Hi Joe, The Diagram you ve posted is all wrong. I wish you had contacted me first to make sure that its right, please take off this foolish diagram as it not
                    Message 10 of 19 , Sep 6, 2009
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                       Hi Joe,
                       
                              The Diagram you've posted is all wrong. I wish you had contacted me first to make sure that its right, please take off this foolish diagram as it not close to what I'm writing about. Thank you.
                       
                                                                                                                        Dan'l
                       

                      To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
                      From: joefaust333@...
                      Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 04:17:26 +0000
                      Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] Re: Spiralairfoil Solution

                       


                      Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
                    • joe_f_90032
                      ... Dan, The little bubble in the right panel (which was in the first discussion diagram) indicated that there was an understanding of an
                      Message 11 of 19 , Sep 6, 2009
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                        --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Dan Parker <spiralairfoil@...> wrote:

                        Dan,
                        The little bubble in the right panel (which was in the first discussion diagram) indicated that there was an understanding of an inline-with-main-tether flex drive arrangement. I aimed to further the discussion with tensional towers tensed off a main tether; those tensed towers could hold Earth Spirals or other Savonius wings, etc.

                        The changed diagram with the left panel is a discussion interpretation of the inline arrangement that may be closer to your claims; I leave it open to incomplete capture of your lines and pulleys. Certainly the brief diagram is not complete. It is a delight to aim toward full understanding of your claims and intents. Others are welcome to draw up interpretations, corrections, detailing. Two things: 1. I want to know your claims and perspectives. 2. And along the way there very well may be other ideas spawned that are close or remote from the main focus. As usual in patents, there is strong instruction to have claim text as the leader; diagrams almost never express the fullness of the claims. Gradual diagramming with its imperfections can lead to lateral ideas as well as unfolding some main idea, even if by contrast and correction. For example, the left panel does not handle your pulley and lines to Earth Spiral that you noted in an e-mail; I do not yet follow that. Open-forum correction is fully welcome. Open-forum extension and lateral exploration is also fully welcome. There is room to publish deep detailing of text and diagrams related to your patent application.
                        Wishing Earth Spiral using Flex Drive full success.
                        Cheers,
                        JoeF
                      • joe_f_90032
                        ... ===================== Dan, It is my understanding that you have applied for a patent. That in itself is an announcement that broadcasts to the world and to
                        Message 12 of 19 , Sep 6, 2009
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                          --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "spiralairfoil" <spiralairfoil@...> wrote:

                          > Joe, Please note, I'm aware that I've given this one up to the world by annoucing it, in the think tank, I'm comfy with that, ...

                          =====================
                          Dan,
                          It is my understanding that you have applied for a patent. That in itself is an announcement that broadcasts to the world and to the AWE community. By such act you PROTECT any involved originality, not lose protection. Any involved originality gets historically noted by the patent application; others cannot thereafter obtain valid patent claim approval if the patent officers do their jobs. If your patent is approved and if it holds original claims, then those claims are prtectable. Of course, someone may argue that some claim was priorly evident in prior art missed by the patent officer; and some of those kinds of actions win the day. By discussing your patent claims in the open think tank, you do not thereby give away any valid rights to originality and protection rights. The better others might understand your claims, the better the AWE community could stand in support of any originaly rights ... stand on your team, if you will. You need not "throw in the towel" at all. I, for one, will aim to let any originality shine and stand tall to the best of my ability.

                          You may or others may ... instruct patent officers and AWE community how some claim is distinct and original; contrast with prior art helps make things clear. The AWE community think tank might be a strong teaming partner for any origianl claimant by clarifying prior art, so that some original claimed art shines strongly as original; then if the original art is worth investing in, then protection effort may also be worth the effort.

                          You need not "give away" your protectable rights. Discussing after applying for patent does not do the giveaway. However, if in some way you publish that you do give some original art over to the public domain, then that might effect a giveaway; the manner and forum of such release is a matter best taken up with a intellectual property attorney.

                          For myself, I have published that any and all of my ideas regarding kites and AWE are automatically the property of Public Domain; I will never take out a patent. If you ever find an original idea of mine in my ideas, drawings, models, prototypes. working systems, then you are free to use such in any private or commercial manner you please without giving me any recognition or respect for your use of such. That profile need not be the case for others. I am fully excited about people using their protected patent rights to forward ventures; you will find me on your protection team if you have an original claim. Much of what is thought to be first art is not first art; and therein is the tension and struggle. Many patented claims simply would not win if a full contest was comprehensively carried out, as the inventor and even patent officers missed appreciating or knowing of prior art.

                          The hang glider's cable-stayed triangle control bar with pilot hung behind the triangle control bar was photographed fact in 1908 in the territory of Breslau showing a member of the gliding club, yet "inventors" galore think that they later were first with such simplicity. No one has made a dime off the triangle control frame either way; that particular functional sub-assembly is not specifically claimed in any mechanical aircraft patent, yet someone way back when, perhaps before the 1908 instatiation, invented the mechanical art that has such high use today in the commercial hang glider market as a control system mechanical arrangement.

                          It may take some time before you are confident that I or some other person fully and correctly sees your claims as you do. In the approach of that moment, I take full responsibility for incompleteness. I reach for clarity.

                          If some statue of time allows you to retract some possible "giveawy" to public domain, then go for the retraction, if you wish ...under 24 hours ?
                        • spiralairfoil
                          Hi Joe, I, in no way give up the Spiralairfoil Patent,I do give up freely to any and all the concept of extracting power from lifters that i m try n to
                          Message 13 of 19 , Sep 7, 2009
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                            Hi Joe,


                            I, in no way give up the Spiralairfoil Patent,I do give up freely to any and all the "concept" of extracting power from lifters that i'm try'n to convey to the group.

                            Dan'l


                            --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "joe_f_90032" <joefaust333@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "spiralairfoil" <spiralairfoil@> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Joe, Please note, I'm aware that I've given this one up to the world by annoucing it, in the think tank, I'm comfy with that, ...
                            >
                            > =====================
                            > Dan,
                            > It is my understanding that you have applied for a patent. That in itself is an announcement that broadcasts to the world and to the AWE community. By such act you PROTECT any involved originality, not lose protection. Any involved originality gets historically noted by the patent application; others cannot thereafter obtain valid patent claim approval if the patent officers do their jobs. If your patent is approved and if it holds original claims, then those claims are prtectable. Of course, someone may argue that some claim was priorly evident in prior art missed by the patent officer; and some of those kinds of actions win the day. By discussing your patent claims in the open think tank, you do not thereby give away any valid rights to originality and protection rights. The better others might understand your claims, the better the AWE community could stand in support of any originaly rights ... stand on your team, if you will. You need not "throw in the towel" at all. I, for one, will aim to let any originality shine and stand tall to the best of my ability.
                            >
                            > You may or others may ... instruct patent officers and AWE community how some claim is distinct and original; contrast with prior art helps make things clear. The AWE community think tank might be a strong teaming partner for any origianl claimant by clarifying prior art, so that some original claimed art shines strongly as original; then if the original art is worth investing in, then protection effort may also be worth the effort.
                            >
                            > You need not "give away" your protectable rights. Discussing after applying for patent does not do the giveaway. However, if in some way you publish that you do give some original art over to the public domain, then that might effect a giveaway; the manner and forum of such release is a matter best taken up with a intellectual property attorney.
                            >
                            > For myself, I have published that any and all of my ideas regarding kites and AWE are automatically the property of Public Domain; I will never take out a patent. If you ever find an original idea of mine in my ideas, drawings, models, prototypes. working systems, then you are free to use such in any private or commercial manner you please without giving me any recognition or respect for your use of such. That profile need not be the case for others. I am fully excited about people using their protected patent rights to forward ventures; you will find me on your protection team if you have an original claim. Much of what is thought to be first art is not first art; and therein is the tension and struggle. Many patented claims simply would not win if a full contest was comprehensively carried out, as the inventor and even patent officers missed appreciating or knowing of prior art.
                            >
                            > The hang glider's cable-stayed triangle control bar with pilot hung behind the triangle control bar was photographed fact in 1908 in the territory of Breslau showing a member of the gliding club, yet "inventors" galore think that they later were first with such simplicity. No one has made a dime off the triangle control frame either way; that particular functional sub-assembly is not specifically claimed in any mechanical aircraft patent, yet someone way back when, perhaps before the 1908 instatiation, invented the mechanical art that has such high use today in the commercial hang glider market as a control system mechanical arrangement.
                            >
                            > It may take some time before you are confident that I or some other person fully and correctly sees your claims as you do. In the approach of that moment, I take full responsibility for incompleteness. I reach for clarity.
                            >
                            > If some statue of time allows you to retract some possible "giveawy" to public domain, then go for the retraction, if you wish ...under 24 hours ?
                            >
                          • spiralairfoil
                            Hi Joe, Looks much better. Thanks for all you do, I appreciate, truly. Dan l
                            Message 14 of 19 , Sep 7, 2009
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                              Hi Joe,

                              Looks much better. Thanks for all you do, I appreciate, truly.

                              Dan'l



                              --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "joe_f_90032" <joefaust333@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > http://www.energykitesystems.net/spral/DanParker/index.html
                              > <http://www.energykitesystems.net/spral/DanParker/index.html>
                              >
                              > LiftedSpiralAirfoilTORSION
                              > <http://www.energykitesystems.net/SpiralAirFoil/LiftedSpiralAirfoilTORSI\
                              > ON.jpg> is a discussion drawing by JoeF
                              >
                            • spiralairfoil
                              Hi Darin, I m sorry, I did not see the diagram earlier. Great approach! Still lifting the Genny calls for a large lifter, alternating current down to the
                              Message 15 of 19 , Sep 16, 2009
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                                Hi Darin,

                                I'm sorry, I did not see the diagram earlier. Great approach!
                                Still lifting the Genny calls for a large lifter, alternating current down to the ground, alternating will carry a distance but weaken the further the length yah go, I always liked the counter rotating blade thingy, I am planning to have counter rotation on the ground based Spiralairfoil wind turbine, that's be a fun project too. Please forgive for not responding sooner.

                                Dan'l


                                --- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, Darin Selby <darin_selby@...> wrote:
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                                > How about using two of your spiral airfoils in this way. One is upside-down on top of the other, and a generator inbetween. Then you have an opposed-spinning action that cancels the torque on the conductive tether (speaker wire). I show it being held aloft by a balloon, though a kite will also work. ~Darin
                                > To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: joefaust333@...
                                > Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 01:38:38 +0000
                                > Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy] Re: Spiralairfoil Solution
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                                > If I am reading you correctly, then:
                                > Keep it going!
                                >
                                > Have very powerful lifter kite or kites to hold up the torsion lower segment; the upper kite tether does not rotate , as a swivel is at the top of the SpiralFoil where the upper tether attaches. Only the lower torsion section from SpiralFoil on down to torsion-receiving station. Generator remains in base station. Some will use LTA kytoon kites, some will use HTA SSK (heavier-than-air single-line kite). Some will use the modified LTA spiral balloonish devices moved forward by torsion devices outlined by Geoffrey Goeggel at http://www.hicon.us/gpage7.html and http://www.hicon.us/gpage16.html Geoff Goeggel . Others will add many sorts of torsion-producing items on the torsion tube or torsion rod segment. Advanced materials will assist in allowing the torsion sector to be long.
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                                > The high altitude winds can assist in keeping the AWE lofted; however only the winds at the torsion sector are operating to give torsion.
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                                > Fun family of AWE devices will arrive from your suggestion! Demo could be today. We await another vid from you soon.
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                                > _________________________________________________________________
                                > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
                                > http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
                                >
                              • Bob Stuart
                                AC is only slightly worse than DC at distant transmission. The advantage of easy transformation of voltage outweighs those losses to make it very popular.
                                Message 16 of 19 , Sep 16, 2009
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                                  AC is only slightly worse than DC at distant transmission.  The advantage of easy transformation of voltage outweighs those losses to make it very popular.  Even NYC has converted from DC.

                                  Bob Stuart




                                  On 16-Sep-09, at 8:10 AM, spiralairfoil wrote:

                                   

                                  Hi Darin,

                                  I'm sorry, I did not see the diagram earlier. Great approach!
                                  Still lifting the Genny calls for a large lifter, alternating current down to the ground, alternating will carry a distance but weaken the further the length yah go, I always liked the counter rotating blade thingy, I am planning to have counter rotation on the ground based Spiralairfoil wind turbine, that's be a fun project too. Please forgive for not responding sooner.

                                  Dan'l

                                  --- In AirborneWindEnergy@ yahoogroups. com, Darin Selby <darin_selby@ ...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > How about using two of your spiral airfoils in this way. One is upside-down on top of the other, and a generator inbetween. Then you have an opposed-spinning action that cancels the torque on the conductive tether (speaker wire). I show it being held aloft by a balloon, though a kite will also work. ~Darin
                                  > To: AirborneWindEnergy@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > From: joefaust333@ ...
                                  > Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 01:38:38 +0000
                                  > Subject: [AirborneWindEnergy ] Re: Spiralairfoil Solution
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
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                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > If I am reading you correctly, then:
                                  > Keep it going!
                                  >
                                  > Have very powerful lifter kite or kites to hold up the torsion lower segment; the upper kite tether does not rotate , as a swivel is at the top of the SpiralFoil where the upper tether attaches. Only the lower torsion section from SpiralFoil on down to torsion-receiving station. Generator remains in base station. Some will use LTA kytoon kites, some will use HTA SSK (heavier-than- air single-line kite). Some will use the modified LTA spiral balloonish devices moved forward by torsion devices outlined by Geoffrey Goeggel at http://www.hicon. us/gpage7. html and http://www.hicon. us/gpage16. html Geoff Goeggel . Others will add many sorts of torsion-producing items on the torsion tube or torsion rod segment. Advanced materials will assist in allowing the torsion sector to be long.
                                  >
                                  > The high altitude winds can assist in keeping the AWE lofted; however only the winds at the torsion sector are operating to give torsion.
                                  >
                                  > Fun family of AWE devices will arrive from your suggestion! Demo could be today. We await another vid from you soon.
                                  >
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                                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                  > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
                                  > http://www.bing. com/cashback? form=MSHYCB& publ=WLHMTAG& crea=TEXT_ MSHYCB_BackToSch ool_Cashback_ BTSCashback_ 1x1
                                  >


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