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Re: [AirVW] Fisher Avenger V

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  • Gary Cain
    Alan, does it have a impulse coupling causing the lag? Sent from my iPhone
    Message 1 of 16 , May 22, 2013
      Alan, does it have a impulse coupling causing the lag?

      Sent from my iPhone

      On May 21, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Alan Dameron <adameron@...> wrote:

       

      Hello,
       
           My prop is 54 x 24.  Normally starts 3rd pull cold with prime and 1st pull hot with no prime.  The 30 degree timing is accurate as I closely located/marked TDC and 30 degrees BTDC.  The mag has a 15 degree lag so start up to 500 rpm it's firing 15 degrees BTDC then above 500 it's at 30 BTDC.
       
      Alan 


      --- On Tue, 5/21/13, Daryl Kings <daryl_kings@...> wrote:

      From: Daryl Kings <daryl_kings@...>
      Subject: Re: [AirVW] Fisher Avenger V
      To: airvw@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, May 21, 2013, 12:43 PM

       


      Hand start with 15 degrees advance? Wow! I struggle with 7.5 degrees advance only so I can have 28 degrees at full throttle... I have the 009 distributor. I first statically timed it at 4 degrees and can easily get it to start one swing, but then I leave some advance off the full throttle setting... I always thought that the lower the advance, or even after top dead center was the best for hand starting, and my minimal experience suggests that. How large is your prop?

      Thanks,

      Daryl
      Http://dktp.t15.org

      ------------------------------
      On Mon, 20 May, 2013 4:29 PM EDT Alan Dameron wrote:

      >I'm running a Slick Magneto with 15 degree lag.  With timing set at 30 degrees I'm hand propping at 15 degrees BTDC.  Works well.
      >Alan
      >
      >--- On Fri, 5/17/13, ramjetwiebe <prwiebe@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >From: ramjetwiebe <prwiebe@...>
      >Subject: [AirVW] Fisher Avenger V
      >To: AirVW@yahoogroups.com
      >Date: Friday, May 17, 2013, 8:03 PM
      >
      >
      >

      >
      >
      >
      >I have committed to building an Avenger. (Firewall direct mount VW engine)
      >
      >I could use some modern advice. I am open to many suggestions!
      >
      >While waiting for the kit and after building ribs, I will have some time to build an engine.
      >
      >Quite some time ago, I built a VP1 as cheaply as it could be done. (I was a kid.) The engine (1600 dual port) came from a wrecked Super B (Not mine - I crashed Chevys). I was able (then) to locate a side draft carb and modify the intake to keep the profile low. (I did use an oil cooler but no carb heat.) I used solid engine spacers as per the drawings but would NOT do that again.
      >
      >I am not keen to use a down draft carb (aesthetics among other things)
      >
      >I can see no way to use an updraft carb (preferred) so I am looking for a sidedraft alternative. That is unless I am missing something. This time I'll have carb heat.
      >
      >Rebuildable Strombergs seem to be non-existent. (I will probably build a 1900 type 1 from parts - mostly from GP)
      >
      >I am unwilling to use a controlled leaker on the top of the engine and controlling fuel pressure to .5 psi would be a real problem anyway.
      >
      >Dual carbs? We're talking under 300 bucks all in from multiple sources here!
      >
      >The jury is still out on ignition. Slick 4220s are cheap like borscht but don't have enough advance. Apart from the need for a battery, I cannot see a problem with a reliable 009 - hand propping would be much easier, me thinks. Ultimately, I might just seek out a decent Vertex and have it rebuilt.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

    • Alan Dameron
      Daryl,        Also your compression ratio is factor in hand start.   Alan ... From: Daryl Kings Subject: Re: [AirVW] Fisher
      Message 2 of 16 , May 22, 2013
        Daryl,
         
             Also your compression ratio is factor in hand start.
         
        Alan

        --- On Tue, 5/21/13, Daryl Kings <daryl_kings@...> wrote:

        From: Daryl Kings <daryl_kings@...>
        Subject: Re: [AirVW] Fisher Avenger V
        To: airvw@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, May 21, 2013, 12:43 PM

         


        Hand start with 15 degrees advance? Wow! I struggle with 7.5 degrees advance only so I can have 28 degrees at full throttle... I have the 009 distributor. I first statically timed it at 4 degrees and can easily get it to start one swing, but then I leave some advance off the full throttle setting... I always thought that the lower the advance, or even after top dead center was the best for hand starting, and my minimal experience suggests that. How large is your prop?

        Thanks,

        Daryl
        Http://dktp.t15.org

        ------------------------------
        On Mon, 20 May, 2013 4:29 PM EDT Alan Dameron wrote:

        >I'm running a Slick Magneto with 15 degree lag.  With timing set at 30 degrees I'm hand propping at 15 degrees BTDC.  Works well.
        >Alan
        >
        >--- On Fri, 5/17/13, ramjetwiebe <prwiebe@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >From: ramjetwiebe <prwiebe@...>
        >Subject: [AirVW] Fisher Avenger V
        >To: AirVW@yahoogroups.com
        >Date: Friday, May 17, 2013, 8:03 PM
        >
        >
        >

        >
        >
        >
        >I have committed to building an Avenger. (Firewall direct mount VW engine)
        >
        >I could use some modern advice. I am open to many suggestions!
        >
        >While waiting for the kit and after building ribs, I will have some time to build an engine.
        >
        >Quite some time ago, I built a VP1 as cheaply as it could be done. (I was a kid.) The engine (1600 dual port) came from a wrecked Super B (Not mine - I crashed Chevys). I was able (then) to locate a side draft carb and modify the intake to keep the profile low. (I did use an oil cooler but no carb heat.) I used solid engine spacers as per the drawings but would NOT do that again.
        >
        >I am not keen to use a down draft carb (aesthetics among other things)
        >
        >I can see no way to use an updraft carb (preferred) so I am looking for a sidedraft alternative. That is unless I am missing something. This time I'll have carb heat.
        >
        >Rebuildable Strombergs seem to be non-existent. (I will probably build a 1900 type 1 from parts - mostly from GP)
        >
        >I am unwilling to use a controlled leaker on the top of the engine and controlling fuel pressure to .5 psi would be a real problem anyway.
        >
        >Dual carbs? We're talking under 300 bucks all in from multiple sources here!
        >
        >The jury is still out on ignition. Slick 4220s are cheap like borscht but don't have enough advance. Apart from the need for a battery, I cannot see a problem with a reliable 009 - hand propping would be much easier, me thinks. Ultimately, I might just seek out a decent Vertex and have it rebuilt.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

      • Roger & Brenda Callow
        Reading this post made me realise how fortunate some people are when they have mags that fire just a few degrees BTDC when hand starting. Both my Lucas SR4
        Message 3 of 16 , May 22, 2013
          Reading this post made me realise how fortunate some people are when they have mags that fire just a few degrees BTDC when hand starting.
           
          Both my Lucas SR4 mags are set at 25 degrees BTDC and kicking back is to be expected unless you put some serious effort behind each swing of the prop.
           
          I once set the Lucas mags on a 1600 fitted to a Luton Minor to 28 degrees BTDC in search of more power output at 3000 rpm and had my thumb broken when the very first attempt at starting resulted in such a violent kick back and I couldn’t get my hand out of the way in time! 
           
          The funny thing was that although my thumb was broken the skin wasn’t, so no fountains of blood spurting all over the place.
           
          Oh and in case you’re wondering, the prop didn’t come out of the impact with my hand to well either, as it sustained a nasty split to the trailing edge but thankfully some Araldite soon fixed that!
           
          Good luck with the Avenger build.
           
           
        • Daryl Kings
          Ouch! Hope it healed up ok? The only way I could get my VW to hand prop and start on the first swing was to have no more than 4 degrees advance. I would be
          Message 4 of 16 , May 22, 2013
            Ouch! Hope it healed up ok? The only way I could get my VW to hand prop and start on the first swing was to have no more than 4 degrees advance. I would be afraid of trying to start it that way if it was much over the 7.5 I have now. Back firing and hurting myself scares me! ;-)

            Daryl
            Http://dktp.t15.org


            ------------------------------
            On Wed, 22 May, 2013 12:28 PM EDT Roger & Brenda Callow wrote:

            >Reading this post made me realise how fortunate some people are when they have mags that fire just a few degrees BTDC when hand starting.
            >
            >Both my Lucas SR4 mags are set at 25 degrees BTDC and kicking back is to be expected unless you put some serious effort behind each swing of the prop.
            >
            >I once set the Lucas mags on a 1600 fitted to a Luton Minor to 28 degrees BTDC in search of more power output at 3000 rpm and had my thumb broken when the very first attempt at starting resulted in such a violent kick back and I couldn’t get my hand out of the way in time!
            >
            >The funny thing was that although my thumb was broken the skin wasn’t, so no fountains of blood spurting all over the place.
            >
            >Oh and in case you’re wondering, the prop didn’t come out of the impact with my hand to well either, as it sustained a nasty split to the trailing edge but thankfully some Araldite soon fixed that!
            >
            >Good luck with the Avenger build.
            >
          • Daryl Kings
            Yes, good point.  Mine is 7.8:1   Daryl http://dktp.t15.org/ ... time to build an engine. ... anyway. ... Yes, good point. Mine is 7.8:1 Daryl
            Message 5 of 16 , May 24, 2013
              Yes, good point.  Mine is 7.8:1
               


              From: Alan Dameron <adameron@...>
              To: AirVW@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 7:43:48 AM
              Subject: Re: [AirVW] Fisher Avenger V

               
              Daryl,
               
                   Also your compression ratio is factor in hand start.
               
              Alan

              --- On Tue, 5/21/13, Daryl Kings <daryl_kings@...> wrote:

              From: Daryl Kings <daryl_kings@...>
              Subject: Re: [AirVW] Fisher Avenger V
              To: airvw@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, May 21, 2013, 12:43 PM

               


              Hand start with 15 degrees advance? Wow! I struggle with 7.5 degrees advance only so I can have 28 degrees at full throttle... I have the 009 distributor. I first statically timed it at 4 degrees and can easily get it to start one swing, but then I leave some advance off the full throttle setting... I always thought that the lower the advance, or even after top dead center was the best for hand starting, and my minimal experience suggests that. How large is your prop?

              Thanks,

              Daryl
              Http://dktp.t15.org

              ------------------------------
              On Mon, 20 May, 2013 4:29 PM EDT Alan Dameron wrote:

              >I'm running a Slick Magneto with 15 degree lag.  With timing set at 30 degrees I'm hand propping at 15 degrees BTDC.  Works well.
              >Alan
              >
              >--- On Fri, 5/17/13, ramjetwiebe <prwiebe@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >From: ramjetwiebe <prwiebe@...>
              >Subject: [AirVW] Fisher Avenger V
              >To: AirVW@yahoogroups.com
              >Date: Friday, May 17, 2013, 8:03 PM
              >
              >
              >

              >
              >
              >
              >I have committed to building an Avenger. (Firewall direct mount VW engine)
              >
              >I could use some modern advice. I am open to many suggestions!
              >
              >While waiting for the kit and after building ribs, I will have some time to build an engine.
              >
              >Quite some time ago, I built a VP1 as cheaply as it could be done. (I was a kid.) The engine (1600 dual port) came from a wrecked Super B (Not mine - I crashed Chevys). I was able (then) to locate a side draft carb and modify the intake to keep the profile low. (I did use an oil cooler but no carb heat.) I used solid engine spacers as per the drawings but would NOT do that again.
              >
              >I am not keen to use a down draft carb (aesthetics among other things)
              >
              >I can see no way to use an updraft carb (preferred) so I am looking for a sidedraft alternative. That is unless I am missing something. This time I'll have carb heat.
              >
              >Rebuildable Strombergs seem to be non-existent. (I will probably build a 1900 type 1 from parts - mostly from GP)
              >
              >I am unwilling to use a controlled leaker on the top of the engine and controlling fuel pressure to .5 psi would be a real problem anyway.
              >
              >Dual carbs? We're talking under 300 bucks all in from multiple sources here!
              >
              >The jury is still out on ignition. Slick 4220s are cheap like borscht but don't have enough advance. Apart from the need for a battery, I cannot see a problem with a reliable 009 - hand propping would be much easier, me thinks. Ultimately, I might just seek out a decent Vertex and have it rebuilt.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



            • rogercallow
              The prop made a complete recovery and my thumb still does what thumbs are supposed to do. Thanks for asking.
              Message 6 of 16 , May 25, 2013
                The prop made a complete recovery and my thumb still does what thumbs are supposed to do.

                Thanks for asking.


                --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, Daryl Kings <daryl_kings@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Ouch! Hope it healed up ok?
              • Alan Dameron
                Hi Gary,        Yes, it is an impulse coupling.  Also, I m older and anything but big and strong so I don t have hand prop abilities extraordinaire. 
                Message 7 of 16 , May 27, 2013
                  Hi Gary,
                   
                       Yes, it is an impulse coupling.  Also, I'm older and anything but big and strong so I don't have hand prop abilities extraordinaire.  Recently tried to hand prop a friends A-65 with no impulse coupling on either mag.  I did not have enough stuff to do it.  I sure hope I'm pulling away enough to avoid hitting a thumb (or hand) on a kickback.
                   
                       On another similar subject:  I have a hand held push button with a 3' cord that plugs into the P lead via a socket on the pilot side engine cowling.  I hold the push button in left hand while pulling prop thru with right hand...in case of WOT start up I press the button for shut down.  A safety mechanism rather than tying the tail.
                   
                  Alan
                   

                  --- On Wed, 5/22/13, Gary Cain <thirdy38special@...> wrote:

                  From: Gary Cain <thirdy38special@...>
                  Subject: Re: [AirVW] Fisher Avenger V
                  To: "AirVW@yahoogroups.com" <AirVW@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Wednesday, May 22, 2013, 3:43 AM

                   
                  Alan, does it have a impulse coupling causing the lag?

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On May 21, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Alan Dameron <adameron@...> wrote:

                   
                  Hello,
                   
                       My prop is 54 x 24.  Normally starts 3rd pull cold with prime and 1st pull hot with no prime.  The 30 degree timing is accurate as I closely located/marked TDC and 30 degrees BTDC.  The mag has a 15 degree lag so start up to 500 rpm it's firing 15 degrees BTDC then above 500 it's at 30 BTDC.
                   
                  Alan 


                  --- On Tue, 5/21/13, Daryl Kings <daryl_kings@...> wrote:

                  From: Daryl Kings <daryl_kings@...>
                  Subject: Re: [AirVW] Fisher Avenger V
                  To: airvw@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, May 21, 2013, 12:43 PM

                   


                  Hand start with 15 degrees advance? Wow! I struggle with 7.5 degrees advance only so I can have 28 degrees at full throttle... I have the 009 distributor. I first statically timed it at 4 degrees and can easily get it to start one swing, but then I leave some advance off the full throttle setting... I always thought that the lower the advance, or even after top dead center was the best for hand starting, and my minimal experience suggests that. How large is your prop?

                  Thanks,

                  Daryl
                  Http://dktp.t15.org

                  ------------------------------
                  On Mon, 20 May, 2013 4:29 PM EDT Alan Dameron wrote:

                  >I'm running a Slick Magneto with 15 degree lag.  With timing set at 30 degrees I'm hand propping at 15 degrees BTDC.  Works well.
                  >Alan
                  >
                  >--- On Fri, 5/17/13, ramjetwiebe <prwiebe@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >From: ramjetwiebe <prwiebe@...>
                  >Subject: [AirVW] Fisher Avenger V
                  >To: AirVW@yahoogroups.com
                  >Date: Friday, May 17, 2013, 8:03 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >I have committed to building an Avenger. (Firewall direct mount VW engine)
                  >
                  >I could use some modern advice. I am open to many suggestions!
                  >
                  >While waiting for the kit and after building ribs, I will have some time to build an engine.
                  >
                  >Quite some time ago, I built a VP1 as cheaply as it could be done. (I was a kid.) The engine (1600 dual port) came from a wrecked Super B (Not mine - I crashed Chevys). I was able (then) to locate a side draft carb and modify the intake to keep the profile low. (I did use an oil cooler but no carb heat.) I used solid engine spacers as per the drawings but would NOT do that again.
                  >
                  >I am not keen to use a down draft carb (aesthetics among other things)
                  >
                  >I can see no way to use an updraft carb (preferred) so I am looking for a sidedraft alternative. That is unless I am missing something. This time I'll have carb heat.
                  >
                  >Rebuildable Strombergs seem to be non-existent. (I will probably build a 1900 type 1 from parts - mostly from GP)
                  >
                  >I am unwilling to use a controlled leaker on the top of the engine and controlling fuel pressure to .5 psi would be a real problem anyway.
                  >
                  >Dual carbs? We're talking under 300 bucks all in from multiple sources here!
                  >
                  >The jury is still out on ignition. Slick 4220s are cheap like borscht but don't have enough advance. Apart from the need for a battery, I cannot see a problem with a reliable 009 - hand propping would be much easier, me thinks. Ultimately, I might just seek out a decent Vertex and have it rebuilt.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

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