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crankcase crack

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  • phillip b
    anyone experience these i have posted pictures as41 case can it b welded is it wise to weld will i have to strip it down phill
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 2, 2012
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      anyone experience these i have posted pictures
      as41 case
      can it b welded is it wise to weld
      will i have to strip it down
      phill
    • phillip b
      well look at what i found upon stripping main bearing web just fell apart see pics i noticed aluminium powder in oil a few months ago maybe a sign phill
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 3, 2012
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        well look at what i found upon stripping
        main bearing web just fell apart see pics
        i noticed aluminium powder in oil a few months ago
        maybe a sign
        phill

        --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@...> wrote:
        >
        > anyone experience these i have posted pictures
        > as41 case
        > can it b welded is it wise to weld
        > will i have to strip it down
        > phill
        >
      • dale.karger
        i cant see the photos. but you better take the case to a good shop and have them mic everything. if you spun a main, the crack may be the least of your
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 3, 2012
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          i cant see the photos. but you better take the case to a good shop and have them mic everything. if you spun a main, the crack may be the least of your problems...the block may be junk.


          --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@...> wrote:
          >
          > well look at what i found upon stripping
          > main bearing web just fell apart see pics
          > i noticed aluminium powder in oil a few months ago
          > maybe a sign
          > phill
          >
          > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@> wrote:
          > >
          > > anyone experience these i have posted pictures
          > > as41 case
          > > can it b welded is it wise to weld
          > > will i have to strip it down
          > > phill
          > >
          >
        • rlpearce23
          In 20+ years as a VW auto mechanic I NEVER saw that happen to a case! I don t think you could overtorque the case stud enough to do that, I think it would
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 3, 2012
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            In 20+ years as a VW auto mechanic I NEVER saw that happen to a case! I don't think you could overtorque the case stud enough to do that, I think it would strip first. Can't imagine what caused it. I personally would consider "aluminium powder in oil" cause for immediate grounding and tear down. If you find a cause, please let us know.
            Roger

            --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@...> wrote:
            >
            > well look at what i found upon stripping
            > main bearing web just fell apart see pics
            > i noticed aluminium powder in oil a few months ago
            > maybe a sign
            > phill
            >
            > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@> wrote:
            > >
            > > anyone experience these i have posted pictures
            > > as41 case
            > > can it b welded is it wise to weld
            > > will i have to strip it down
            > > phill
            > >
            >
          • phillip b
            at the min its all speculation roger ... never had a prop strike and i bourght it with 39 hrs on it . hard to find history of the case btw can u get the cases
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 5, 2012
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              at the min its all speculation roger ...
              never had a prop strike and i bourght it with 39 hrs on it .
              hard to find history of the case
              btw can u get the cases crack teste3d as i have found another case and think that would be wise ...
              has anyone sen any other cracks in cases as up non looking they do not look overly strong ...
              dont think i will b just booting in rudder as i fly along just for a bit of yaw fun anymore
              phill

              --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@...> wrote:
              >
              > In 20+ years as a VW auto mechanic I NEVER saw that happen to a case! I don't think you could overtorque the case stud enough to do that, I think it would strip first. Can't imagine what caused it. I personally would consider "aluminium powder in oil" cause for immediate grounding and tear down. If you find a cause, please let us know.
              > Roger
              >
              > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@> wrote:
              > >
              > > well look at what i found upon stripping
              > > main bearing web just fell apart see pics
              > > i noticed aluminium powder in oil a few months ago
              > > maybe a sign
              > > phill
              > >
              > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > anyone experience these i have posted pictures
              > > > as41 case
              > > > can it b welded is it wise to weld
              > > > will i have to strip it down
              > > > phill
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • rlpearce23
              Phill, At this point my experience is in automotive use, however I ve been following the VW aircraft discussions for many years as I had always intended to
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 5, 2012
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                Phill,
                At this point my experience is in automotive use, however I've been following the VW aircraft discussions for many years as I had always intended to build something VW powered. (I recently bought a N3 Pup project with the Global engine). I don't think case cracks are a problem in the majority of the VW engines, however it appears there have been enough cases that cracked behind #3 cylinder that there are now cases available that are re-inforced in that area. Perhaps you were already aware of that. Because I'm a mechanic and don't mind tearing an engine down if I need to, I personally would use a used case that appeared to be good. I think they can be dye tested for cracks but I don't know how to go about that or who could do it for you. A small oil leak will not cause a catastophic failure, it would just mean I'd have to pull the engine and build a new one. Certainly one of the new re-inforced cases should be the best option, if you want to spend the $1000 or so that they cost. I'm inclined to try and save a few dollars where I believe I safely can.
                Just my thoughts.
                Roger


                --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@...> wrote:
                >
                > at the min its all speculation roger ...
                > never had a prop strike and i bourght it with 39 hrs on it .
                > hard to find history of the case
                > btw can u get the cases crack teste3d as i have found another case and think that would be wise ...
                > has anyone sen any other cracks in cases as up non looking they do not look overly strong ...
                > dont think i will b just booting in rudder as i fly along just for a bit of yaw fun anymore
                > phill
                >
                > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@> wrote:
                > >
                > > In 20+ years as a VW auto mechanic I NEVER saw that happen to a case! I don't think you could overtorque the case stud enough to do that, I think it would strip first. Can't imagine what caused it. I personally would consider "aluminium powder in oil" cause for immediate grounding and tear down. If you find a cause, please let us know.
                > > Roger
                > >
                > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > well look at what i found upon stripping
                > > > main bearing web just fell apart see pics
                > > > i noticed aluminium powder in oil a few months ago
                > > > maybe a sign
                > > > phill
                > > >
                > > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > anyone experience these i have posted pictures
                > > > > as41 case
                > > > > can it b welded is it wise to weld
                > > > > will i have to strip it down
                > > > > phill
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • phillip b
                more info emerging speaking to fellow vw engine users it appears cracking at middle main bearing is common on flying vws one chap having seen 3 in motor
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 29, 2012
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                  more info emerging
                  speaking to fellow vw engine users
                  it appears cracking at middle main bearing is common on flying vws
                  one chap having seen 3 in motor gliders mine being the fourth
                  main aircooled agent says when they are in cars he has never seen one crack there

                  speculation it appears the cracks emerge from the oil hole and may be caused by prop making the crank go back and forth hammering the main bearing web ...
                  sounds possible will give it some thought
                  opinions people needed
                  phill

                  --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Phill,
                  > At this point my experience is in automotive use, however I've been following the VW aircraft discussions for many years as I had always intended to build something VW powered. (I recently bought a N3 Pup project with the Global engine). I don't think case cracks are a problem in the majority of the VW engines, however it appears there have been enough cases that cracked behind #3 cylinder that there are now cases available that are re-inforced in that area. Perhaps you were already aware of that. Because I'm a mechanic and don't mind tearing an engine down if I need to, I personally would use a used case that appeared to be good. I think they can be dye tested for cracks but I don't know how to go about that or who could do it for you. A small oil leak will not cause a catastophic failure, it would just mean I'd have to pull the engine and build a new one. Certainly one of the new re-inforced cases should be the best option, if you want to spend the $1000 or so that they cost. I'm inclined to try and save a few dollars where I believe I safely can.
                  > Just my thoughts.
                  > Roger
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > at the min its all speculation roger ...
                  > > never had a prop strike and i bourght it with 39 hrs on it .
                  > > hard to find history of the case
                  > > btw can u get the cases crack teste3d as i have found another case and think that would be wise ...
                  > > has anyone sen any other cracks in cases as up non looking they do not look overly strong ...
                  > > dont think i will b just booting in rudder as i fly along just for a bit of yaw fun anymore
                  > > phill
                  > >
                  > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > In 20+ years as a VW auto mechanic I NEVER saw that happen to a case! I don't think you could overtorque the case stud enough to do that, I think it would strip first. Can't imagine what caused it. I personally would consider "aluminium powder in oil" cause for immediate grounding and tear down. If you find a cause, please let us know.
                  > > > Roger
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > well look at what i found upon stripping
                  > > > > main bearing web just fell apart see pics
                  > > > > i noticed aluminium powder in oil a few months ago
                  > > > > maybe a sign
                  > > > > phill
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > anyone experience these i have posted pictures
                  > > > > > as41 case
                  > > > > > can it b welded is it wise to weld
                  > > > > > will i have to strip it down
                  > > > > > phill
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • rlpearce23
                  speculation it appears the cracks emerge from the oil hole and may be caused by prop making the crank go back and forth hammering the main bearing web ...
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 29, 2012
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                    "speculation it appears the cracks emerge from the oil hole and may be caused by
                    prop making the crank go back and forth hammering the main bearing web ..."
                    I'll have to give that some thought myself. At first glance, however it would seem that if this was a problem inherent to putting a prop on a VW engine then we would have lots more of these, considering the hundreds (thousands?) of them flying today and over the years. Back and forth movement is limited by the end play at the #1 (flywheel end) main bearing. That adjustment is supposed to be .003" to .005" and in automotive use I keep it nearer the lower end. Excessive end play WILL cause hammering, but at the #1 bearing, not #2. And this happens without a prop. The only forces acting inline with the crankshaft in automotive use being engaging/disengaging the clutch. #2 main bearing will take out a case if a rod bearing goes out or the engine is run for a long time with excessive rod bearing clearances. However, in this case the failure is from the bearing beating itself into the case and not from back and forth movement.
                    These are only my initial thoughts and I'm not discounting your speculation. Something is clearly going on to have caused even 4 of these failures and there must be a common link. Please keep us posted if you find the answer.
                    Roger


                    --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > more info emerging
                    > speaking to fellow vw engine users
                    > it appears cracking at middle main bearing is common on flying vws
                    > one chap having seen 3 in motor gliders mine being the fourth
                    > main aircooled agent says when they are in cars he has never seen one crack there
                    >
                    > speculation it appears the cracks emerge from the oil hole and may be caused by prop making the crank go back and forth hammering the main bearing web ...
                    > sounds possible will give it some thought
                    > opinions people needed
                    > phill
                    >
                    > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Phill,
                    > > At this point my experience is in automotive use, however I've been following the VW aircraft discussions for many years as I had always intended to build something VW powered. (I recently bought a N3 Pup project with the Global engine). I don't think case cracks are a problem in the majority of the VW engines, however it appears there have been enough cases that cracked behind #3 cylinder that there are now cases available that are re-inforced in that area. Perhaps you were already aware of that. Because I'm a mechanic and don't mind tearing an engine down if I need to, I personally would use a used case that appeared to be good. I think they can be dye tested for cracks but I don't know how to go about that or who could do it for you. A small oil leak will not cause a catastophic failure, it would just mean I'd have to pull the engine and build a new one. Certainly one of the new re-inforced cases should be the best option, if you want to spend the $1000 or so that they cost. I'm inclined to try and save a few dollars where I believe I safely can.
                    > > Just my thoughts.
                    > > Roger
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > at the min its all speculation roger ...
                    > > > never had a prop strike and i bourght it with 39 hrs on it .
                    > > > hard to find history of the case
                    > > > btw can u get the cases crack teste3d as i have found another case and think that would be wise ...
                    > > > has anyone sen any other cracks in cases as up non looking they do not look overly strong ...
                    > > > dont think i will b just booting in rudder as i fly along just for a bit of yaw fun anymore
                    > > > phill
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > In 20+ years as a VW auto mechanic I NEVER saw that happen to a case! I don't think you could overtorque the case stud enough to do that, I think it would strip first. Can't imagine what caused it. I personally would consider "aluminium powder in oil" cause for immediate grounding and tear down. If you find a cause, please let us know.
                    > > > > Roger
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > well look at what i found upon stripping
                    > > > > > main bearing web just fell apart see pics
                    > > > > > i noticed aluminium powder in oil a few months ago
                    > > > > > maybe a sign
                    > > > > > phill
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "phillip b" <pjb12345uk@> wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > anyone experience these i have posted pictures
                    > > > > > > as41 case
                    > > > > > > can it b welded is it wise to weld
                    > > > > > > will i have to strip it down
                    > > > > > > phill
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • rebelzap
                    We are putting them backwards, they were never meant to pull off the pulleys.
                    Message 9 of 18 , Apr 30, 2012
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                      We are putting them backwards, they were never meant to pull off the pulleys.
                    • rlpearce23
                      Actually, the crankshaft was never meant to be pulled upon from either end. It was meant to deliver power in a circular motion only, which is why a PSRU makes
                      Message 10 of 18 , Apr 30, 2012
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                        Actually, the crankshaft was never meant to be pulled upon from either end. It was meant to deliver power in a circular motion only, which is why a PSRU makes sense. Not trying to open an old can of worms here, I've just always been pretty nervous about the small thrust surface of the #1 main bearing, which is what takes all the "pull" from the prop. The shims that are there are for setting end play and weren't intended to be a bearing surface. I know, there's a lot of them flying like that, but it still concerns me. If I do ever build an airplane powered with a full 4 cyl VW, it will most likely have a PSRU for that reason, if not for any other.
                        Roger
                        --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rebelzap" <rebelzap@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > We are putting them backwards, they were never meant to pull off the pulleys.
                        >
                      • rlpearce23
                        My apologies Phill. I didn t mean to go off topic on your thread here. Roger
                        Message 11 of 18 , Apr 30, 2012
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                          My apologies Phill. I didn't mean to go off topic on your thread here.
                          Roger

                          --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Actually, the crankshaft was never meant to be pulled upon from either end. It was meant to deliver power in a circular motion only, which is why a PSRU makes sense. Not trying to open an old can of worms here, I've just always been pretty nervous about the small thrust surface of the #1 main bearing, which is what takes all the "pull" from the prop. The shims that are there are for setting end play and weren't intended to be a bearing surface. I know, there's a lot of them flying like that, but it still concerns me. If I do ever build an airplane powered with a full 4 cyl VW, it will most likely have a PSRU for that reason, if not for any other.
                          > Roger
                          > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rebelzap" <rebelzap@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > We are putting them backwards, they were never meant to pull off the pulleys.
                          > >
                          >
                        • Todd Loes
                          Is there a PSRU that is driven the same way that a Beetle would have delivered power? Did the Beetle have a cog belt with big side loads? I m not getting
                          Message 12 of 18 , Apr 30, 2012
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                            Is there a PSRU that is "driven" the same way that a "Beetle" would have delivered power?  Did the Beetle have a cog belt with big side loads?

                            I'm not getting picky.  Just pointing out that few if any "solutions" for aero conversion can be stated to be "as intended by the VW engineers". 

                            That being said, I love to read the posts here and hope that everyone with an idea will post it for discussion.

                            Best regards,

                            Todd


                            Sent from my iPod

                            On Apr 30, 2012, at 7:01 PM, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@...> wrote:

                             


                            Actually, the crankshaft was never meant to be pulled upon from either end. It was meant to deliver power in a circular motion only, which is why a PSRU makes sense. Not trying to open an old can of worms here, I've just always been pretty nervous about the small thrust surface of the #1 main bearing, which is what takes all the "pull" from the prop. The shims that are there are for setting end play and weren't intended to be a bearing surface. I know, there's a lot of them flying like that, but it still concerns me. If I do ever build an airplane powered with a full 4 cyl VW, it will most likely have a PSRU for that reason, if not for any other.
                            Roger
                            --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rebelzap" <rebelzap@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > We are putting them backwards, they were never meant to pull off the pulleys.
                            >

                          • rlpearce23
                            The side loads placed on the crankshaft by a PSRU are a product of the amount of tension applied to the belt, not the amount of HP being transferred to the
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 1, 2012
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                              The side loads placed on the crankshaft by a PSRU are a product of the amount of tension applied to the belt, not the amount of HP being transferred to the prop. I'm not saying the VW was designed for a PSRU either, just that I think the increased? side load on #4 main bearing is less of a threat than the entire engine output being placed on the end play adjustment shims and relatively small thrust area of the # 1 bearing.
                              Roger
                              --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, Todd Loes <taloes@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Is there a PSRU that is "driven" the same way that a "Beetle" would have delivered power? Did the Beetle have a cog belt with big side loads?
                              >
                              > I'm not getting picky. Just pointing out that few if any "solutions" for aero conversion can be stated to be "as intended by the VW engineers".
                              >
                              > That being said, I love to read the posts here and hope that everyone with an idea will post it for discussion.
                              >
                              > Best regards,
                              >
                              > Todd
                              >
                              >
                              > Sent from my iPod
                              >
                              > On Apr 30, 2012, at 7:01 PM, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > > Actually, the crankshaft was never meant to be pulled upon from either end. It was meant to deliver power in a circular motion only, which is why a PSRU makes sense. Not trying to open an old can of worms here, I've just always been pretty nervous about the small thrust surface of the #1 main bearing, which is what takes all the "pull" from the prop. The shims that are there are for setting end play and weren't intended to be a bearing surface. I know, there's a lot of them flying like that, but it still concerns me. If I do ever build an airplane powered with a full 4 cyl VW, it will most likely have a PSRU for that reason, if not for any other.
                              > > Roger
                              > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rebelzap" <rebelzap@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > We are putting them backwards, they were never meant to pull off the pulleys.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Bill Utt
                              Here s my twist on this- We have a relatively inexpensive power plant, that, properly built, should or could deliver a thousand hours +- of flight. The little
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 1, 2012
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                                Here’s my twist on this-

                                We have a relatively inexpensive power plant, that, properly built, should or could deliver a thousand hours +- of flight.

                                The little motor that could, has done this for decades..

                                That’s 100 hours per year for ten years.

                                I believe the average private pilot fly’s about 60 hours a year.+-

                                At the cost of building this engine, which is considered a consumable, should be able to have one standing by after five years of flight.

                                If you keep the a/c that long.

                                In all the years of building various types of internal combustion engines, I have found as others have, “There are only so many RPM’s in an engine”

                                How fast you use them up, is up to you.

                                 

                                Best regards,

                                Bill

                                 

                                From: AirVW@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirVW@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlpearce23
                                Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:57 AM
                                To: AirVW@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [AirVW] Re: crankcase crack//alert

                                 

                                 


                                The side loads placed on the crankshaft by a PSRU are a product of the amount of tension applied to the belt, not the amount of HP being transferred to the prop. I'm not saying the VW was designed for a PSRU either, just that I think the increased? side load on #4 main bearing is less of a threat than the entire engine output being placed on the end play adjustment shims and relatively small thrust area of the # 1 bearing.
                                Roger

                                --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, Todd Loes <taloes@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Is there a PSRU that is "driven" the same way that a "Beetle" would have delivered power? Did the Beetle have a cog belt with big side loads?
                                >
                                > I'm not getting picky. Just pointing out that few if any "solutions" for aero conversion can be stated to be "as intended by the VW engineers".
                                >
                                > That being said, I love to read the posts here and hope that everyone with an idea will post it for discussion.
                                >
                                > Best regards,
                                >
                                > Todd
                                >
                                >
                                > Sent from my iPod
                                >
                                > On Apr 30, 2012, at 7:01 PM, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                > > Actually, the crankshaft was never meant to be pulled upon from either end. It was meant to deliver power in a circular motion only, which is why a PSRU makes sense. Not trying to open an old can of worms here, I've just always been pretty nervous about the small thrust surface of the #1 main bearing, which is what takes all the "pull" from the prop. The shims that are there are for setting end play and weren't intended to be a bearing surface. I know, there's a lot of them flying like that, but it still concerns me. If I do ever build an airplane powered with a full 4 cyl VW, it will most likely have a PSRU for that reason, if not for any other.
                                > > Roger
                                > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rebelzap" <rebelzap@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > We are putting them backwards, they were never meant to pull off the pulleys.
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >

                              • chumphol sirinavin
                                Bill, You keep me hopeful. Champ ________________________________ From: Bill Utt To: AirVW@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 1, 2012
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                                  Bill,

                                  You keep me hopeful.

                                  Champ


                                  From: Bill Utt <uttnuthut1@...>
                                  To: AirVW@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2012 7:20 AM
                                  Subject: RE: [AirVW] Re: crankcase crack//alert

                                   
                                  Here’s my twist on this-
                                  We have a relatively inexpensive power plant, that, properly built, should or could deliver a thousand hours +- of flight.
                                  The little motor that could, has done this for decades..
                                  That’s 100 hours per year for ten years.
                                  I believe the average private pilot fly’s about 60 hours a year.+-
                                  At the cost of building this engine, which is considered a consumable, should be able to have one standing by after five years of flight.
                                  If you keep the a/c that long.
                                  In all the years of building various types of internal combustion engines, I have found as others have, “There are only so many RPM’s in an engine”
                                  How fast you use them up, is up to you.
                                   
                                  Best regards,
                                  Bill
                                   
                                  From: AirVW@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirVW@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rlpearce23
                                  Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:57 AM
                                  To: AirVW@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [AirVW] Re: crankcase crack//alert
                                   
                                   

                                  The side loads placed on the crankshaft by a PSRU are a product of the amount of tension applied to the belt, not the amount of HP being transferred to the prop. I'm not saying the VW was designed for a PSRU either, just that I think the increased? side load on #4 main bearing is less of a threat than the entire engine output being placed on the end play adjustment shims and relatively small thrust area of the # 1 bearing.
                                  Roger
                                  --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, Todd Loes <taloes@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Is there a PSRU that is "driven" the same way that a "Beetle" would have delivered power? Did the Beetle have a cog belt with big side loads?
                                  >
                                  > I'm not getting picky. Just pointing out that few if any "solutions" for aero conversion can be stated to be "as intended by the VW engineers".
                                  >
                                  > That being said, I love to read the posts here and hope that everyone with an idea will post it for discussion.
                                  >
                                  > Best regards,
                                  >
                                  > Todd
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Sent from my iPod
                                  >
                                  > On Apr 30, 2012, at 7:01 PM, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > > Actually, the crankshaft was never meant to be pulled upon from either end. It was meant to deliver power in a circular motion only, which is why a PSRU makes sense. Not trying to open an old can of worms here, I've just always been pretty nervous about the small thrust surface of the #1 main bearing, which is what takes all the "pull" from the prop. The shims that are there are for setting end play and weren't intended to be a bearing surface. I know, there's a lot of them flying like that, but it still concerns me. If I do ever build an airplane powered with a full 4 cyl VW, it will most likely have a PSRU for that reason, if not for any other.
                                  > > Roger
                                  > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rebelzap" <rebelzap@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > We are putting them backwards, they were never meant to pull off the pulleys.
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >


                                • garywolf@rogers.com
                                  The SPG gearbox sold by Airtrikes.net in Montreal Canada has self-supported shafts and uses a rubber coupling and a short driveshaft to take the power from the
                                  Message 16 of 18 , May 2, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    The SPG gearbox sold by Airtrikes.net in Montreal Canada has self-supported shafts and uses a rubber coupling and a short driveshaft to take the power from the engine to the gearbox. This gearbox has been installed on many auto and BMW motorcycle engine conversions.

                                    I do not know if they make a bellhousing to fit the VW but the box has been adapted to so many engines that I would not be surprised.

                                    Gary Wolf
                                    RAA Canada

                                    --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, Todd Loes <taloes@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Is there a PSRU that is "driven" the same way that a "Beetle" would have delivered power? Did the Beetle have a cog belt with big side loads?
                                    >
                                    > I'm not getting picky. Just pointing out that few if any "solutions" for aero conversion can be stated to be "as intended by the VW engineers".
                                    >
                                    > That being said, I love to read the posts here and hope that everyone with an idea will post it for discussion.
                                    >
                                    > Best regards,
                                    >
                                    > Todd
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Sent from my iPod
                                    >
                                    > On Apr 30, 2012, at 7:01 PM, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > Actually, the crankshaft was never meant to be pulled upon from either end. It was meant to deliver power in a circular motion only, which is why a PSRU makes sense. Not trying to open an old can of worms here, I've just always been pretty nervous about the small thrust surface of the #1 main bearing, which is what takes all the "pull" from the prop. The shims that are there are for setting end play and weren't intended to be a bearing surface. I know, there's a lot of them flying like that, but it still concerns me. If I do ever build an airplane powered with a full 4 cyl VW, it will most likely have a PSRU for that reason, if not for any other.
                                    > > Roger
                                    > > --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rebelzap" <rebelzap@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > We are putting them backwards, they were never meant to pull off the pulleys.
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • cdnch701builder
                                    They do not have a bell housing! Can the SPG be adapted... yes they indicated that they could make an adaptor for both the Type 1 and Type 4 VW engine! It
                                    Message 17 of 18 , May 2, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      They do not have a bell housing!   Can the SPG be adapted... yes they indicated that they could make an adaptor for both the Type 1 and Type 4 VW engine!  It should be noted this is for a flywheel drive engine!
                                      Ron

                                      :--)>
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)> The SPG gearbox sold by Airtrikes.net in Montreal Canada has self-supported shafts
                                      :--)> and uses a rubber coupling and a short driveshaft to take the power from the engine
                                      :--)> to the gearbox. This gearbox has been installed on many auto and BMW motorcycle
                                      :--)> engine conversions.
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)> I do not know if they make a bellhousing to fit the VW but the box has been adapted
                                      :--)> to so many engines that I would not be surprised.
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)> Gary Wolf
                                      :--)> RAA Canada
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)> --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, Todd Loes <taloes@...> wrote:
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)>:--)> Is there a PSRU that is "driven" the same way that a "Beetle" would have
                                      :--)>:--)> delivered power?  Did the Beetle have a cog belt with big side loads?
                                      :--)>:--)>
                                      :--)>:--)> I'm not getting picky.  Just pointing out that few if any "solutions" for
                                      :--)>:--)> aero conversion can be stated to be "as intended by the VW engineers".
                                      :--)>:--)>
                                      :--)>:--)> That being said, I love to read the posts here and hope that everyone with an
                                      :--)>:--)> idea will post it for discussion.
                                      :--)>:--)>
                                      :--)>:--)> Best regards,
                                      :--)>:--)>
                                      :--)>:--)> Todd
                                      :--)>:--)>
                                      :--)>:--)>
                                      :--)>:--)> Sent from my iPod
                                      :--)>:--)>
                                      :--)>:--)> On Apr 30, 2012, at 7:01 PM, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@...> wrote:
                                      :--)>:--)>
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)>
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)> Actually, the crankshaft was never meant to be pulled upon from either
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)> end.  It was meant to deliver power in a circular motion only, which is
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)> why a PSRU makes sense. Not trying to open an old can of worms here,
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)> I've just always been pretty nervous about the small thrust surface of
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)> the #1 main bearing, which is what takes all the "pull" from the prop.
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)> The shims that are there are for setting end play and weren't intended
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)> to be a bearing surface. I know, there's a lot of them flying like
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)> that, but it still concerns me. If I do ever build an airplane powered
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)> with a full 4 cyl VW, it will most likely have a PSRU for that reason,
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)> if not for any other.
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)> Roger
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)> --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rebelzap" <rebelzap@> wrote:
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)>
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)>:--)>
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)>:--)> We are putting them backwards, they were never meant to pull off
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)>:--)> the pulleys.
                                      :--)>:--)>:--)>:--)>
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)> Reply to sender |
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)> Reply to group |
                                      :--)> Reply via web post |
                                      :--)> Start a New Topic
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)> Messages in this topic
                                      :--)> (16)
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)> Recent Activity:
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)>
                                      :--)> -
                                    • rlpearce23
                                      The SPG setup looks nice but at over 2 grand it makes an A-65 look pretty good too. A few years ago there were plans or kits to use a VW bus reduction gear to
                                      Message 18 of 18 , May 2, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        The SPG setup looks nice but at over 2 grand it makes an A-65 look pretty good too. A few years ago there were plans or kits to use a VW bus reduction gear to make a PSRU for a Corvair. I wonder how those worked out and if any of these have ever been built/used on a VW engine. I think using the flywheel end as the drive end makes a lot of sense and having a shaft or direct drive to a PSRU would be even better.
                                        Roger
                                        --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, cdnch701builder <cdnch701@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > They do not have a bell housing! Can the SPG be adapted... yes they indicated that they could
                                        > make an adaptor for both the Type 1 and Type 4 VW engine! It should be noted this is for a
                                        > flywheel drive engine!
                                        > Ron
                                        >
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)> The SPG gearbox sold by Airtrikes.net in Montreal Canada has self-supported shafts
                                        > :--)> and uses a rubber coupling and a short driveshaft to take the power from the engine
                                        > :--)> to the gearbox. This gearbox has been installed on many auto and BMW motorcycle
                                        > :--)> engine conversions.
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)> I do not know if they make a bellhousing to fit the VW but the box has been adapted
                                        > :--)> to so many engines that I would not be surprised.
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)> Gary Wolf
                                        > :--)> RAA Canada
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)> --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, Todd Loes <taloes@> wrote:
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)>:--)> Is there a PSRU that is "driven" the same way that a "Beetle" would have
                                        > :--)>:--)> delivered power? Did the Beetle have a cog belt with big side loads?
                                        > :--)>:--)>
                                        > :--)>:--)> I'm not getting picky. Just pointing out that few if any "solutions" for
                                        > :--)>:--)> aero conversion can be stated to be "as intended by the VW engineers".
                                        > :--)>:--)>
                                        > :--)>:--)> That being said, I love to read the posts here and hope that everyone with an
                                        > :--)>:--)> idea will post it for discussion.
                                        > :--)>:--)>
                                        > :--)>:--)> Best regards,
                                        > :--)>:--)>
                                        > :--)>:--)> Todd
                                        > :--)>:--)>
                                        > :--)>:--)>
                                        > :--)>:--)> Sent from my iPod
                                        > :--)>:--)>
                                        > :--)>:--)> On Apr 30, 2012, at 7:01 PM, "rlpearce23" <rlpearce@> wrote:
                                        > :--)>:--)>
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)>
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)> Actually, the crankshaft was never meant to be pulled upon from either
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)> end. It was meant to deliver power in a circular motion only, which is
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)> why a PSRU makes sense. Not trying to open an old can of worms here,
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)> I've just always been pretty nervous about the small thrust surface of
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)> the #1 main bearing, which is what takes all the "pull" from the prop.
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)> The shims that are there are for setting end play and weren't intended
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)> to be a bearing surface. I know, there's a lot of them flying like
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)> that, but it still concerns me. If I do ever build an airplane powered
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)> with a full 4 cyl VW, it will most likely have a PSRU for that reason,
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)> if not for any other.
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)> Roger
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)> --- In AirVW@yahoogroups.com, "rebelzap" <rebelzap@> wrote:
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)>
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)>:--)>
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)>:--)> We are putting them backwards, they were never meant to pull off
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)>:--)> the pulleys.
                                        > :--)>:--)>:--)>:--)>
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)> Reply to sender |
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)> Reply to group |
                                        > :--)> Reply via web post |
                                        > :--)> Start a New Topic
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)> Messages in this topic
                                        > :--)> (16)
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)> Recent Activity:
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)>
                                        > :--)> -
                                        >
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