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Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

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  • puffedz
    Interesting comments Sent from Samsung MobilePeter Ntephe wrote: I am African and grew up there so first a disclaimer: I do not claim
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 30, 2012
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      Interesting comments


      Sent from Samsung Mobile

      Peter Ntephe <peentephe@...> wrote:
       

      I am African and grew up there so first a disclaimer:  I do not claim by my background that I have any superior knowledge of African art.

      However, all through my childhood, my father 'collected.'  He travelled a lot and picked up a lot of masks, carvings, figurines, etc which formed the decorations in our house.  Growing up under his wing, we learnt to stop at villages that were the centres of such art to to look for interesting pieces.  Never for once over the first 25 years of my life was it a consideration that any of these pieces was 'authentic' or 'antique' in the sense that I subsequently found to my surprise were very important for foreign/Western collectors and determined the pecuniary valuation attached to the objects.

      As I have become an adult and started collecting in my own right, I have collected on the basis my father did - the technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty of the pieces.  I have collected them as decorations rather than as antiques or things actually used for some ceremony or the other.  I have found it difficult to stifle a laugh when I see childish, childlike and rudimentary pieces (produced by 'craftsmen' of clearly little skill or training) collected and assigned relatively stupendous value by Westerners on the basis that they were 'antique', 'authentic' or 'tribal.'  Several times, I have been in a crafts market where non-African tourists were asking about authenticity and overheard the craftsmen in a vernacular I understand ask one of their number to stop the craftsmen from bringing in another piece like that while the transaction was being negotiated.  

      I continue to collect on the basis of technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty.  I care nought for the basis of authenticity or antiquity that seems to be so prized on this forum and elsewhere.  I care not whether the pieces were made for tourists or not.  I always believed they all were anyway and have been for a long time, probably going back to sub-Saharan Africa's first contact with white people interested in 'collecting' the pieces, over 200 years ago. 

      Africa has a lot of what I call 'literate art' as well.  This is art, whether in the form of paintings, crafts, sculpture or carvings, produced by artists trained in the various university art faculties and the other training centres in higher institutions of learning.  This usually gets short shrift as it is not 'authentic' African art - it is not made in rural areas and remote villages by semi-literate craftsmen.  That is a real pity.  Some stunning work exists in the literate art spheres of Africa.

      Anyway, thanks for the film.  I laughed through many portions of it.     
       
      Peter

      From: Gi Mateusen <mateusen@...>
      To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 11:26
      Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

       
      Hello,
      Yesterday I had contact by email with one of the Cameroon dealers in the documentary and this is what he wrote to me: "The documentary was just a way to express to the world what we Africans go through in this business and also to make people know that these rich art dealers who claim not to do transactions with us Africans do really do them"
      I know him since more than 10 years and a lot of pieces that he presented are for sale in the galleries in Brussels and other places, sometimes with invented "provenance"….
      kind regards

      GI 

      Op 29-dec.-2012, om 17:07 heeft Bob & Karen het volgende geschreven:

       

      Thanks Lee!! Does make ya wonder just what we own…I'm happy I collect pieces I like for just what they are….

      bob

      From: Veronique Martelliere <proximatribal@...>
      Reply-To: <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:15 AM
      To: "African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

       

      A film of BIG interest. Thank You very much, Lee !
      véro

      From: Lee Rubinstein <leerubinstein@...>
      To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:33 PM
      Subject: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
       
      Looking at the movement of African art into Western view and appreciation:

      There is a current exhibition at the Met which may be of interest to group members:  African Art, New York, and the Avant-Garde  runs through mid-April:

      Also, I recently came across a film -- accessible on-line in its entirety -- that considers various aspects of the creation, collection, valuation and authenticity of African art.  Filmed in Cameroon and Belgium, "Je ne suis pa moi-meme" illustrates many of the topics we often touch upon in our discussions regarding authenticity and value as well as offering a view of the social milieu of African art trade on the African continent and abroad.

      Lee





    • Ed Jones
      Lee:   An exceptional film illustrating African perspectives without the Western collector s usual tort, trite, veneration attempts, and/or explanations
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 30, 2012
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        Lee:
         
        An exceptional film illustrating African perspectives without the Western collector's usual tort, trite, veneration attempts, and/or explanations with the (typical) scholarly "claims" about their artwork.  Actually, this reminds me of some of Moyo's views expressed to the group several years ago.
         
        Perhaps the relatively recent publication titled Making History: African Collectors and the Canon of African Art by Sylvester Okwunodu Ogbechie.  The publication focuses on the Femi Akansanya collection of art in Nigeria, and can also increase the awareness of African perspectives, valuation and analysis of their artworks.  Certainly, this is not the only publication on African art written by "black" Africans from their perspectives.  However, it is truly a 5-star (plus) publication.
         
        Ann Porteus:  Thank you kindly for bringing this particular post / thread to my attention.  
         
        Fantastic.  Especially if viewed without polarized views. 
         
        Ed

        From: Lee Rubinstein <leerubinstein@...>
        To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:33 AM
        Subject: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
         
        Looking at the movement of African art into Western view and appreciation:

        There is a current exhibition at the Met which may be of interest to group members:  African Art, New York, and the Avant-Garde  runs through mid-April:
        http://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2012/african-art

        Also, I recently came across a film -- accessible on-line in its entirety -- that considers various aspects of the creation, collection, valuation and authenticity of African art.  Filmed in Cameroon and Belgium, "Je ne suis pa moi-meme" illustrates many of the topics we often touch upon in our discussions regarding authenticity and value as well as offering a view of the social milieu of African art trade on the African continent and abroad.

        http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documentary/watch-online/play/11410/Je-ne-suis-pas-moi-m--me-
        Lee
      • Ed Jones
        Thanks Peter :)   ________________________________ From: Peter Ntephe To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 30, 2012
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          Thanks Peter :)
           
          From: Peter Ntephe <peentephe@...>
          To: "African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 3:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
           
          I am African and grew up there so first a disclaimer:  I do not claim by my background that I have any superior knowledge of African art.

          However, all through my childhood, my father 'collected.'  He travelled a lot and picked up a lot of masks, carvings, figurines, etc which formed the decorations in our house.  Growing up under his wing, we learnt to stop at villages that were the centres of such art to to look for interesting pieces.  Never for once over the first 25 years of my life was it a consideration that any of these pieces was 'authentic' or 'antique' in the sense that I subsequently found to my surprise were very important for foreign/Western collectors and determined the pecuniary valuation attached to the objects.

          As I have become an adult and started collecting in my own right, I have collected on the basis my father did - the technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty of the pieces.  I have collected them as decorations rather than as antiques or things actually used for some ceremony or the other.  I have found it difficult to stifle a laugh when I see childish, childlike and rudimentary pieces (produced by 'craftsmen' of clearly little skill or training) collected and assigned relatively stupendous value by Westerners on the basis that they were 'antique', 'authentic' or 'tribal.'  Several times, I have been in a crafts market where non-African tourists were asking about authenticity and overheard the craftsmen in a vernacular I understand ask one of their number to stop the craftsmen from bringing in another piece like that while the transaction was being negotiated.  

          I continue to collect on the basis of technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty.  I care nought for the basis of authenticity or antiquity that seems to be so prized on this forum and elsewhere.  I care not whether the pieces were made for tourists or not.  I always believed they all were anyway and have been for a long time, probably going back to sub-Saharan Africa's first contact with white people interested in 'collecting' the pieces, over 200 years ago. 

          Africa has a lot of what I call 'literate art' as well.  This is art, whether in the form of paintings, crafts, sculpture or carvings, produced by artists trained in the various university art faculties and the other training centres in higher institutions of learning.  This usually gets short shrift as it is not 'authentic' African art - it is not made in rural areas and remote villages by semi-literate craftsmen.  That is a real pity.  Some stunning work exists in the literate art spheres of Africa.

          Anyway, thanks for the film.  I laughed through many portions of it.     
           
          Peter
          From: Gi Mateusen <mateusen@...>
          To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 11:26
          Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
           
          Hello,
          Yesterday I had contact by email with one of the Cameroon dealers in the documentary and this is what he wrote to me: "The documentary was just a way to express to the world what we Africans go through in this business and also to make people know that these rich art dealers who claim not to do transactions with us Africans do really do them"
          I know him since more than 10 years and a lot of pieces that he presented are for sale in the galleries in Brussels and other places, sometimes with invented "provenance"….
          kind regards

          GI 

          Op 29-dec.-2012, om 17:07 heeft Bob & Karen het volgende geschreven:
           

          Thanks Lee!! Does make ya wonder just what we own…I'm happy I collect pieces I like for just what they are….

          bob

          From: Veronique Martelliere <proximatribal@...>Reply-To: <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:15 AMTo: "African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

           

          A film of BIG interest. Thank You very much, Lee !
          véro

          From: Lee Rubinstein <leerubinstein@...>
          To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:33 PM
          Subject: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
           
          Looking at the movement of African art into Western view and appreciation:

          There is a current exhibition at the Met which may be of interest to group members:  African Art, New York, and the Avant-Garde  runs through mid-April:

          Also, I recently came across a film -- accessible on-line in its entirety -- that considers various aspects of the creation, collection, valuation and authenticity of African art.  Filmed in Cameroon and Belgium, "Je ne suis pa moi-meme" illustrates many of the topics we often touch upon in our discussions regarding authenticity and value as well as offering a view of the social milieu of African art trade on the African continent and abroad.

          Lee


        • Bob Ibold
          There s been a lot of reaction to the documentary Je ne suis pas moi meme that Lee recommended. I was especially fond of Peter s explanation of his preference
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 30, 2012
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            There's been a lot of reaction to the documentary Je ne suis pas moi meme that Lee recommended. I was especially fond of Peter's explanation of his preference for technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty over authenticity and antiquity. I agree with that.

            Perhaps it's time to ask about real African traditional art as it is produced today. It may be hard to find, but it's alive and well throughout Africa and its Diaspora. Why do we collectors, dealers and museums avoid this material? Of course, the carvers and runners will avoid it as well.

            Bob Ibold
            MasksoftheWorld.com
            Lancaster, PA, USA


             05:19 PM 12/29/2012, you wrote:
             

            I am African and grew up there so first a disclaimer:  I do not claim by my background that I have any superior knowledge of African art.

            However, all through my childhood, my father 'collected.'  He travelled a lot and picked up a lot of masks, carvings, figurines, etc which formed the decorations in our house.  Growing up under his wing, we learnt to stop at villages that were the centres of such art to to look for interesting pieces.  Never for once over the first 25 years of my life was it a consideration that any of these pieces was 'authentic' or 'antique' in the sense that I subsequently found to my surprise were very important for foreign/Western collectors and determined the pecuniary valuation attached to the objects.

            As I have become an adult and started collecting in my own right, I have collected on the basis my father did - the technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty of the pieces.  I have collected them as decorations rather than as antiques or things actually used for some ceremony or the other.  I have found it difficult to stifle a laugh when I see childish, childlike and rudimentary pieces (produced by 'craftsmen' of clearly little skill or training) collected and assigned relatively stupendous value by Westerners on the basis that they were 'antique', 'authentic' or 'tribal.'  Several times, I have been in a crafts market where non-African tourists were asking about authenticity and overheard the craftsmen in a vernacular I understand ask one of their number to stop the craftsmen from bringing in another piece like that while the transaction was being negotiated. 

            I continue to collect on the basis of technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty.  I care nought for the basis of authenticity or antiquity that seems to be so prized on this forum and elsewhere.  I care not whether the pieces were made for tourists or not.  I always believed they all were anyway and have been for a long time, probably going back to sub-Saharan Africa's first contact with white people interested in 'collecting' the pieces, over 200 years ago.

            Africa has a lot of what I call 'literate art' as well.  This is art, whether in the form of paintings, crafts, sculpture or carvings, produced by artists trained in the various university art faculties and the other training centres in higher institutions of learning.  This usually gets short shrift as it is not 'authentic' African art - it is not made in rural areas and remote villages by semi-literate craftsmen.  That is a real pity.  Some stunning work exists in the literate art spheres of Africa.

            Anyway, thanks for the film.  I laughed through many portions of it.    
             
            Peter

            From: Gi Mateusen <mateusen@...>
            To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 11:26
            Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

             
            Hello,
            Yesterday I had contact by email with one of the Cameroon dealers in the documentary and this is what he wrote to me: "The documentary was just a way to express to the world what we Africans go through in this business and also to make people know that these rich art dealers who claim not to do transactions with us Africans do really do them"
            I know him since more than 10 years and a lot of pieces that he presented are for sale in the galleries in Brussels and other places, sometimes with invented "provenance"….
            kind regards

            GI

            Op 29-dec.-2012, om 17:07 heeft Bob & Karen het volgende geschreven:

             

            Thanks Lee!! Does make ya wonder just what we own…I'm happy I collect pieces I like for just what they areâ….

            bob

            From: Veronique Martelliere <proximatribal@... >
            Reply-To: < African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:15 AM
            To: " African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" < African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

             

            A film of BIG interest. Thank You very much, Lee !
            véro

            From: Lee Rubinstein <leerubinstein@... >
            To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:33 PM
            Subject: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
             
            Looking at the movement of African art into Western view and appreciation:

            There is a current exhibition at the Met which may be of interest to group members:  African Art, New York, and the Avant-Garde  runs through mid-April:
            http://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2012/african-art

            Also, I recently came across a film -- accessible on-line in its entirety -- that considers various aspects of the creation, collection, valuation and authenticity of African art.  Filmed in Cameroon and Belgium, "Je ne suis pa moi-meme" illustrates many of the topics we often touch upon in our discussions regarding authenticity and value as well as offering a view of the social milieu of African art trade on the African continent and abroad.

            http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documentary/watch-online/play/11410/Je-ne-suis-pas-moi-m--me-
            Lee




          • Bob & Karen
            I agree, Thanks Peter --- well said. bob From: Ed Jones Reply-To: Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:03 AM
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 30, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              I agree,  Thanks Peter --- well said. 
              bob

              From: Ed Jones <bucit@...>
              Reply-To: <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:03 AM
              To: "African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: PETER [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

               

              Thanks Peter :)
               
              From: Peter Ntephe <peentephe@...>
              To: "African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 3:19 PM
              Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
               
              I am African and grew up there so first a disclaimer:  I do not claim by my background that I have any superior knowledge of African art.

              However, all through my childhood, my father 'collected.'  He travelled a lot and picked up a lot of masks, carvings, figurines, etc which formed the decorations in our house.  Growing up under his wing, we learnt to stop at villages that were the centres of such art to to look for interesting pieces.  Never for once over the first 25 years of my life was it a consideration that any of these pieces was 'authentic' or 'antique' in the sense that I subsequently found to my surprise were very important for foreign/Western collectors and determined the pecuniary valuation attached to the objects.

              As I have become an adult and started collecting in my own right, I have collected on the basis my father did - the technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty of the pieces.  I have collected them as decorations rather than as antiques or things actually used for some ceremony or the other.  I have found it difficult to stifle a laugh when I see childish, childlike and rudimentary pieces (produced by 'craftsmen' of clearly little skill or training) collected and assigned relatively stupendous value by Westerners on the basis that they were 'antique', 'authentic' or 'tribal.'  Several times, I have been in a crafts market where non-African tourists were asking about authenticity and overheard the craftsmen in a vernacular I understand ask one of their number to stop the craftsmen from bringing in another piece like that while the transaction was being negotiated.  

              I continue to collect on the basis of technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty.  I care nought for the basis of authenticity or antiquity that seems to be so prized on this forum and elsewhere.  I care not whether the pieces were made for tourists or not.  I always believed they all were anyway and have been for a long time, probably going back to sub-Saharan Africa's first contact with white people interested in 'collecting' the pieces, over 200 years ago. 

              Africa has a lot of what I call 'literate art' as well.  This is art, whether in the form of paintings, crafts, sculpture or carvings, produced by artists trained in the various university art faculties and the other training centres in higher institutions of learning.  This usually gets short shrift as it is not 'authentic' African art - it is not made in rural areas and remote villages by semi-literate craftsmen.  That is a real pity.  Some stunning work exists in the literate art spheres of Africa.

              Anyway, thanks for the film.  I laughed through many portions of it.     
               
              Peter
              From: Gi Mateusen <mateusen@...>
              To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 11:26
              Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
               
              Hello,
              Yesterday I had contact by email with one of the Cameroon dealers in the documentary and this is what he wrote to me: "The documentary was just a way to express to the world what we Africans go through in this business and also to make people know that these rich art dealers who claim not to do transactions with us Africans do really do them"
              I know him since more than 10 years and a lot of pieces that he presented are for sale in the galleries in Brussels and other places, sometimes with invented "provenance"….
              kind regards

              GI 

              Op 29-dec.-2012, om 17:07 heeft Bob & Karen het volgende geschreven:
               

              Thanks Lee!! Does make ya wonder just what we own…I'm happy I collect pieces I like for just what they are….

              bob

              From: Veronique Martelliere <proximatribal@...>Reply-To: <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:15 AMTo: "African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

               

              A film of BIG interest. Thank You very much, Lee !
              véro

              From: Lee Rubinstein <leerubinstein@...>
              To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:33 PM
              Subject: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
               
              Looking at the movement of African art into Western view and appreciation:

              There is a current exhibition at the Met which may be of interest to group members:  African Art, New York, and the Avant-Garde  runs through mid-April:

              Also, I recently came across a film -- accessible on-line in its entirety -- that considers various aspects of the creation, collection, valuation and authenticity of African art.  Filmed in Cameroon and Belgium, "Je ne suis pa moi-meme" illustrates many of the topics we often touch upon in our discussions regarding authenticity and value as well as offering a view of the social milieu of African art trade on the African continent and abroad.

              Lee


            • Beth Peart
              AMEN. Hearing this is refreshing! B   ONÍSÙÚRÙ NI YÍÒ JOGÚN AYÉ The patient person shall inherit the earth ________________________________ From: Bob
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 30, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                AMEN. Hearing this is refreshing!
                B
                 







                ONÍSÙÚRÙ NI YÍÒ JOGÚN AYÉ
                The patient person shall inherit the earth


                From: Bob & Karen <rizzo6@...>
                To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 4:44:55 PM
                Subject: Re: PETER [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

                 
                I agree,  Thanks Peter --- well said. 
                bob

                From: Ed Jones <bucit@...>
                Reply-To: <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:03 AM
                To: "African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: PETER [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

                 
                Thanks Peter :)
                 
                From: Peter Ntephe <peentephe@...>
                To: "African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 3:19 PM
                Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
                 
                I am African and grew up there so first a disclaimer:  I do not claim by my background that I have any superior knowledge of African art.

                However, all through my childhood, my father 'collected.'  He travelled a lot and picked up a lot of masks, carvings, figurines, etc which formed the decorations in our house.  Growing up under his wing, we learnt to stop at villages that were the centres of such art to to look for interesting pieces.  Never for once over the first 25 years of my life was it a consideration that any of these pieces was 'authentic' or 'antique' in the sense that I subsequently found to my surprise were very important for foreign/Western collectors and determined the pecuniary valuation attached to the objects.

                As I have become an adult and started collecting in my own right, I have collected on the basis my father did - the technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty of the pieces.  I have collected them as decorations rather than as antiques or things actually used for some ceremony or the other.  I have found it difficult to stifle a laugh when I see childish, childlike and rudimentary pieces (produced by 'craftsmen' of clearly little skill or training) collected and assigned relatively stupendous value by Westerners on the basis that they were 'antique', 'authentic' or 'tribal.'  Several times, I have been in a crafts market where non-African tourists were asking about authenticity and overheard the craftsmen in a vernacular I understand ask one of their number to stop the craftsmen from bringing in another piece like that while the transaction was being negotiated.  

                I continue to collect on the basis of technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty.  I care nought for the basis of authenticity or antiquity that seems to be so prized on this forum and elsewhere.  I care not whether the pieces were made for tourists or not.  I always believed they all were anyway and have been for a long time, probably going back to sub-Saharan Africa's first contact with white people interested in 'collecting' the pieces, over 200 years ago. 

                Africa has a lot of what I call 'literate art' as well.  This is art, whether in the form of paintings, crafts, sculpture or carvings, produced by artists trained in the various university art faculties and the other training centres in higher institutions of learning.  This usually gets short shrift as it is not 'authentic' African art - it is not made in rural areas and remote villages by semi-literate craftsmen.  That is a real pity.  Some stunning work exists in the literate art spheres of Africa.

                Anyway, thanks for the film.  I laughed through many portions of it.     
                 
                Peter
                From: Gi Mateusen <mateusen@...>
                To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 11:26
                Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
                 
                Hello,
                Yesterday I had contact by email with one of the Cameroon dealers in the documentary and this is what he wrote to me: "The documentary was just a way to express to the world what we Africans go through in this business and also to make people know that these rich art dealers who claim not to do transactions with us Africans do really do them"
                I know him since more than 10 years and a lot of pieces that he presented are for sale in the galleries in Brussels and other places, sometimes with invented "provenance"….
                kind regards

                GI 

                Op 29-dec.-2012, om 17:07 heeft Bob & Karen het volgende geschreven:
                 

                Thanks Lee!! Does make ya wonder just what we own…I'm happy I collect pieces I like for just what they are….

                bob

                From: Veronique Martelliere <proximatribal@...>Reply-To: <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:15 AMTo: "African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

                 

                A film of BIG interest. Thank You very much, Lee !
                véro

                From: Lee Rubinstein <leerubinstein@...>
                To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:33 PM
                Subject: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
                 
                Looking at the movement of African art into Western view and appreciation:

                There is a current exhibition at the Met which may be of interest to group members:  African Art, New York, and the Avant-Garde  runs through mid-April:

                Also, I recently came across a film -- accessible on-line in its entirety -- that considers various aspects of the creation, collection, valuation and authenticity of African art.  Filmed in Cameroon and Belgium, "Je ne suis pa moi-meme" illustrates many of the topics we often touch upon in our discussions regarding authenticity and value as well as offering a view of the social milieu of African art trade on the African continent and abroad.

                Lee




              • david m
                Here is an interesting article by Sidney Kasfir dealing with the problematic term authenticity in the context of African art.
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 31, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Here is an interesting article by Sidney Kasfir dealing with the problematic term 'authenticity' in the context of African art. 
                  She raises important questions and issues such as who determines cultural authenticity of African artifact(s), who classifies it, how and by whom is it legitimated...

                  Another very good text by S. Kasfir I will recommend is the ‘One Tribe, One Style? Paradigms in the Historiography of African Art

                  Best regards,

                  David

                  ARTENEGRO
                  African Tribal Arts
                  London

                  www.artenegro.com

                  To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                  From: rizzo6@...
                  Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 16:44:55 -0500
                  Subject: Re: PETER [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

                   

                  I agree,  Thanks Peter --- well said. 
                  bob

                  From: Ed Jones <bucit@...>
                  Reply-To: <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:03 AM
                  To: "African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: PETER [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

                   

                  Thanks Peter :)
                   
                  From: Peter Ntephe <peentephe@...>
                  To: "African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 3:19 PM
                  Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
                   
                  I am African and grew up there so first a disclaimer:  I do not claim by my background that I have any superior knowledge of African art.

                  However, all through my childhood, my father 'collected.'  He travelled a lot and picked up a lot of masks, carvings, figurines, etc which formed the decorations in our house.  Growing up under his wing, we learnt to stop at villages that were the centres of such art to to look for interesting pieces.  Never for once over the first 25 years of my life was it a consideration that any of these pieces was 'authentic' or 'antique' in the sense that I subsequently found to my surprise were very important for foreign/Western collectors and determined the pecuniary valuation attached to the objects.

                  As I have become an adult and started collecting in my own right, I have collected on the basis my father did - the technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty of the pieces.  I have collected them as decorations rather than as antiques or things actually used for some ceremony or the other.  I have found it difficult to stifle a laugh when I see childish, childlike and rudimentary pieces (produced by 'craftsmen' of clearly little skill or training) collected and assigned relatively stupendous value by Westerners on the basis that they were 'antique', 'authentic' or 'tribal.'  Several times, I have been in a crafts market where non-African tourists were asking about authenticity and overheard the craftsmen in a vernacular I understand ask one of their number to stop the craftsmen from bringing in another piece like that while the transaction was being negotiated.  

                  I continue to collect on the basis of technical proficiency and aesthetic beauty.  I care nought for the basis of authenticity or antiquity that seems to be so prized on this forum and elsewhere.  I care not whether the pieces were made for tourists or not.  I always believed they all were anyway and have been for a long time, probably going back to sub-Saharan Africa's first contact with white people interested in 'collecting' the pieces, over 200 years ago. 

                  Africa has a lot of what I call 'literate art' as well.  This is art, whether in the form of paintings, crafts, sculpture or carvings, produced by artists trained in the various university art faculties and the other training centres in higher institutions of learning.  This usually gets short shrift as it is not 'authentic' African art - it is not made in rural areas and remote villages by semi-literate craftsmen.  That is a real pity.  Some stunning work exists in the literate art spheres of Africa.

                  Anyway, thanks for the film.  I laughed through many portions of it.     
                   
                  Peter
                  From: Gi Mateusen <mateusen@...>
                  To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, 29 December 2012, 11:26
                  Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
                   
                  Hello,
                  Yesterday I had contact by email with one of the Cameroon dealers in the documentary and this is what he wrote to me: "The documentary was just a way to express to the world what we Africans go through in this business and also to make people know that these rich art dealers who claim not to do transactions with us Africans do really do them"
                  I know him since more than 10 years and a lot of pieces that he presented are for sale in the galleries in Brussels and other places, sometimes with invented "provenance"….
                  kind regards

                  GI 

                  Op 29-dec.-2012, om 17:07 heeft Bob & Karen het volgende geschreven:
                   

                  Thanks Lee!! Does make ya wonder just what we own…I'm happy I collect pieces I like for just what they are….

                  bob

                  From: Veronique Martelliere <proximatribal@...>Reply-To: <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:15 AMTo: "African_Arts@yahoogroups.com" <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>Subject: Re: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest

                   

                  A film of BIG interest. Thank You very much, Lee !
                  véro

                  From: Lee Rubinstein <leerubinstein@...>
                  To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:33 PM
                  Subject: [African_Arts] An Exhibition and a Film of Interest
                   
                  Looking at the movement of African art into Western view and appreciation:

                  There is a current exhibition at the Met which may be of interest to group members:  African Art, New York, and the Avant-Garde  runs through mid-April:

                  Also, I recently came across a film -- accessible on-line in its entirety -- that considers various aspects of the creation, collection, valuation and authenticity of African art.  Filmed in Cameroon and Belgium, "Je ne suis pa moi-meme" illustrates many of the topics we often touch upon in our discussions regarding authenticity and value as well as offering a view of the social milieu of African art trade on the African continent and abroad.

                  Lee




                • john
                  Well- an interesting little film but it does suggest that honesty does not exist in the tribal art world, or not as an ordinary person might understand it.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jan 1, 2013
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                    Well- an interesting little film but it does suggest that honesty does not exist in the tribal art world, or not as an ordinary person might understand it.










                    --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, Lee Rubinstein <leerubinstein@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Looking at the movement of African art into Western view and appreciation:
                    >
                    > There is a current exhibition at the Met which may be of interest to group
                    > members: African Art, New York, and the Avant-Garde runs through
                    > mid-April:
                    > http://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2012/african-art
                    >
                    > Also, I recently came across a film -- accessible on-line in its entirety
                    > -- that considers various aspects of the creation, collection, valuation
                    > and authenticity of African art. Filmed in Cameroon and Belgium, "Je ne
                    > suis pa moi-meme" illustrates many of the topics we often touch upon in our
                    > discussions regarding authenticity and value as well as offering a view of
                    > the social milieu of African art trade on the African continent and abroad.
                    >
                    > http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documentary/watch-online/play/11410/Je-ne-suis-pas-moi-m--me-
                    >
                    > Lee
                    >
                  • stephen.ellmann
                    Another source telling a story like that of this film is a short, good book by Christopher Steiner called African Art in Transit (Cambridge University Press
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jan 2, 2013
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                      Another source telling a story like that of this film is a short, good book by Christopher Steiner called "African Art in Transit" (Cambridge University Press 1994), an up-close study of the African art markets in and spreading out from Cote d'Ivoire.

                      One of the troubling aspects of all this is that it seems quite likely that any piece that actually is old and played a part in traditional ceremonial life in Africa has probably left that context and arrived in the art market as a result of some act of power, in which economic need induced people to surrender or transfer objects of meaning to the market.

                      Steve

                      --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "john" <johnhf1947@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Well- an interesting little film but it does suggest that honesty does not exist in the tribal art world, or not as an ordinary person might understand it.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, Lee Rubinstein <leerubinstein@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Looking at the movement of African art into Western view and appreciation:
                      > >
                      > > There is a current exhibition at the Met which may be of interest to group
                      > > members: African Art, New York, and the Avant-Garde runs through
                      > > mid-April:
                      > > http://www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2012/african-art
                      > >
                      > > Also, I recently came across a film -- accessible on-line in its entirety
                      > > -- that considers various aspects of the creation, collection, valuation
                      > > and authenticity of African art. Filmed in Cameroon and Belgium, "Je ne
                      > > suis pa moi-meme" illustrates many of the topics we often touch upon in our
                      > > discussions regarding authenticity and value as well as offering a view of
                      > > the social milieu of African art trade on the African continent and abroad.
                      > >
                      > > http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documentary/watch-online/play/11410/Je-ne-suis-pas-moi-m--me-
                      > >
                      > > Lee
                      > >
                      >
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