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Re: [African_Arts] Re: Bifwebe question - new to this

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  • Ann Porteus
    You are right I think that the carver did invest time, energy and skill acquired from a lot of carving. They also deserve to be paid well for their work and
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 2, 2012
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      You are right I think that the carver did invest time, energy and skill acquired from a lot of carving.  They also deserve to be paid well for their work and time.
      Songye masks are powerful and interesting forms and I think that yours was worth the money.
      Well done.

      Ann Porteus
      Sidewalk Tribal Gallery 
      Tel: +61414340331
      Fax: +61362240331
      Office: +61362240331


      Sent from my iPad.

      On 02/04/2012, at 1:03 PM, "pataphor123" <noreplylist@...> wrote:

       

      Thanks for your reply, Ann!

      The different styles of Kifwebe confuse (and sort of fascinate) me: some of the "male" masks have the protruding eyes; others have the slit-eyes, more like the female masks. Some are deeply or lightly etched with ridges all over. Others are smooth to the touch.

      Anyway, your web site probably said it best: you purchase based on "artistic merit." I like mine because it looks like it took a lot of work to carve it with all those ridges (even if it didn't, haha). It seems like whoever did it invested some time and energy and PRIDE in the work, and I really dig that.

      I also just like how it looks. So I'm happy. : )

      --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, Ann Porteus <ann@...> wrote:
      >
      > Do you think that the "museum mask" was necessarily old when collected in the late 18th or early 19th centuries? Maybe used and danced but still in very good condition?
      > Oh and the 1970's paints. Natural Kaolins and clay pigments or did someone have some spare cash to spend on poster paints?
      > There are many Kifwebe masks dressed with the full range of natural coloured pigments used on these masks for centuries to be purchased throughout Westlands market in Nairobi. There are also many to choose from in the River Road rooms where the Congolese traders stay when they bring their goods to sell. Who knows when the pigments were applied, how quickly they deteriorated or how often they were refreshed.
      > If you have a nice mask recently arrived from Africa, well carved and you like it, enjoy it.
      > Consider the time taken to carve and finish it then the cost to transport it to your supplier, the cost of selling it, store space, taxes, wages etc and I imagine you have a real bargain.
      > Keep it for a couple of hundred years and I imagine that it will be worth lots of money.
      > For how much longer will African carvers have the skills to carve their beautiful sculptures and masks. Eventually these skills will disappear, leaving just a few treasured artisans, as they have in most Western cultures.
      >
      > I have seen a vast drop in the quality of carvings coming from Africa in the past 20 years. Young carvers are not so prepared to spend the time learning and practicing before they send their "masterpiece" to market. They want to be independent and support themselves and this is the way that they can do it.
      > I believe that if we can all aspire to buy the better quality carvings and pay a reasonable price for quality then we can help these carvers work to maintain the standards set by their ancestors.
      >
      > Enjoy your masks.
      >
      > Ann Porteus
      > Sidewalk Tribal Gallery
      > http://www.flickr.com/photos/sidewalk_tribal_galleries/collections/
      > ann@...
      >
      >
      > On 01/04/2012, at 3:20 PM, "pataphor123" <noreplylist@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > My guess is that "my" mask was made in the 1970s or '80s, based on the colors, haha. That's why the picture from the museum in Zurich had me confused ... I've seen "vetted" masks from the 30s that look older than that one? : / Any input appreciated.
      > >
      > >
      >

    • Dai Nguyen
      i don t know how to post picture here, but i l just send you an attachment ________________________________ From: Bob Ibold To:
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 2, 2012
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      i don't know how to post picture here, but i'l just send you an attachment


      From: Bob Ibold <bob.ibold@...>
      To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2012 7:50 AM
      Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Bifwebe question - new to this

       
      Dai,
      Could you post a picture of your Bifwebe? I'd like to see just how close it is to Pablo's.
      Thank you.
      Bob


      At 12:37 AM 4/1/2012, you wrote:
       

      I got the same mask like yours, I got mine at Lodi Art gallery in pasadena.


      From: pataphor123 <noreplylist@...>
      To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 1:12 PM
      Subject: [African_Arts] Bifwebe question - new to this

       
      First of all, hello to everyone here!

      I was wondering if anyone had any thought about these 2 kifwebe (I've learned the plural is "bifwebe"):

      This one is from a museum in Germany, supposedly dated late 18th/early 19th century:
      http://pataphor.com/kifwebe1.jpg%A0

      And this is one I own:
      http://pataphor.com/kifwebe2.jpg%A0

      The age isn't super-important to me; I'm just learning about this (been at it a whopping 2 weeks, haha!), but finding I really, really love this field. I've had a bunch of $30 objects (which I also like) around my little 200 square foot apartment and just decided maybe to start buying some pricier stuff, and I've found it's a fascinating and sometimes enigmatic field, already providing lots of enjoyment.

      Anyway, glad I found this group. : ]

      Pablo





    • pataphor123
      Wow, that IS really very similar! I wish the paint on mine was as nice; mine looks sort of water-damaged. Are these all yours? They re beautiful. In that Marc
      Message 3 of 13 , Apr 3, 2012
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        Wow, that IS really very similar! I wish the paint on mine was as nice; mine looks sort of water-damaged. Are these all yours? They're beautiful. In that Marc Leo Felix article online I read that the red ones roughly signify blood and vitality, and black is for magic. : ) Pablo

        p.s. How do you have them suspended? They look really great together.



        --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, Dai Nguyen <wakeupdrowzy@...> wrote:
        >
        > i don't know how to post picture here, but i'l just send you an attachment
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Bob Ibold <bob.ibold@...>
        > To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2012 7:50 AM
        > Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Bifwebe question - new to this
        >
        >
        >  
        > Dai,
        > Could you post a picture of your Bifwebe? I'd like to see just how close
        > it is to Pablo's.
        > Thank you.
        > Bob
        >
        >
        > At 12:37 AM 4/1/2012, you wrote:
        >
        >  
        > >
        > >I got the same mask like yours, I got mine at Lodi Art gallery in
        > pasadena.
        > >
        > >
        > >From: pataphor123
        > <noreplylist@...>
        > >To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
        > >Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 1:12 PM
        > >Subject: [African_Arts] Bifwebe question - new to this
        > >
        > > 
        > >First of all, hello to everyone here!
        > >
        > >I was wondering if anyone had any thought about these 2 kifwebe (I've
        > learned the plural is "bifwebe"):
        > >
        > >This one is from a museum in Germany, supposedly dated late 18th/early
        > 19th century:
        > >http://pataphor.com/kifwebe1.jpg%A0
        > >
        > >And this is one I own:
        > >http://pataphor.com/kifwebe2.jpg%A0
        > >
        > >The age isn't super-important to me; I'm just learning about this (been
        > at it a whopping 2 weeks, haha!), but finding I really, really love this
        > field. I've had a bunch of $30 objects (which I also like) around my
        > little 200 square foot apartment and just decided maybe to start buying
        > some pricier stuff, and I've found it's a fascinating and sometimes
        > enigmatic field, already providing lots of enjoyment.
        > >
        > >Anyway, glad I found this group. : ]
        > >
        > >Pablo
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • tom
        Ya I just drills holes in the wall, trial and error cause even though i did calculation (thinking I got this) it end up looking all crooked at first, so behind
        Message 4 of 13 , Apr 6, 2012
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          Ya I just drills holes in the wall, trial and error cause even though i did calculation (thinking I got this) it end up looking all crooked at first, so behind each of those mask is a bunch of empty holes in the walls that i missdrill LOL

          ooO and since the mask already have holes in them, i put string across the holes, and hung the little string on the screw on the wall, I don't have any sort of special method, it's all basic.

          --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "pataphor123" <noreplylist@...> wrote:
          >
          > Wow, that IS really very similar! I wish the paint on mine was as nice; mine looks sort of water-damaged. Are these all yours? They're beautiful. In that Marc Leo Felix article online I read that the red ones roughly signify blood and vitality, and black is for magic. : ) Pablo
          >
          > p.s. How do you have them suspended? They look really great together.
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, Dai Nguyen <wakeupdrowzy@> wrote:
          > >
          > > i don't know how to post picture here, but i'l just send you an attachment
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > From: Bob Ibold <bob.ibold@>
          > > To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Sunday, April 1, 2012 7:50 AM
          > > Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Bifwebe question - new to this
          > >
          > >
          > >  
          > > Dai,
          > > Could you post a picture of your Bifwebe? I'd like to see just how close
          > > it is to Pablo's.
          > > Thank you.
          > > Bob
          > >
          > >
          > > At 12:37 AM 4/1/2012, you wrote:
          > >
          > >  
          > > >
          > > >I got the same mask like yours, I got mine at Lodi Art gallery in
          > > pasadena.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >From: pataphor123
          > > <noreplylist@>
          > > >To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
          > > >Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 1:12 PM
          > > >Subject: [African_Arts] Bifwebe question - new to this
          > > >
          > > > 
          > > >First of all, hello to everyone here!
          > > >
          > > >I was wondering if anyone had any thought about these 2 kifwebe (I've
          > > learned the plural is "bifwebe"):
          > > >
          > > >This one is from a museum in Germany, supposedly dated late 18th/early
          > > 19th century:
          > > >http://pataphor.com/kifwebe1.jpg%A0
          > > >
          > > >And this is one I own:
          > > >http://pataphor.com/kifwebe2.jpg%A0
          > > >
          > > >The age isn't super-important to me; I'm just learning about this (been
          > > at it a whopping 2 weeks, haha!), but finding I really, really love this
          > > field. I've had a bunch of $30 objects (which I also like) around my
          > > little 200 square foot apartment and just decided maybe to start buying
          > > some pricier stuff, and I've found it's a fascinating and sometimes
          > > enigmatic field, already providing lots of enjoyment.
          > > >
          > > >Anyway, glad I found this group. : ]
          > > >
          > > >Pablo
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
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